Hi all

Sorry in advance as this will be a long post but please stick with it and read it all so you can really undeestand why i need advice and help in knowing what to do.

So some of you will know that i have my heart set on having a bernese mountain dog (still do) but ive now found myself in a predicament and really need your advice and help please.

4yrs ago now i was dignosed with Tinnitus ( ringing in the ears) i can hear a plane engine type noise in both ears and luckily it mild and i have got used to it but the worst part about the condtion is that it can get worser if im not careful around noise. By this i mean it will get louder. At the moment i cant hear it over the TV ect and only hear it in a quiet room. But if it gets louder then with Severe Tinnitus you can hear it over everything and cant mask it and it makes you go mad and drives you nuts and when its that bad it takes all quality of life away and the rate of suicide is high for severe tinnitus.

I did struggle in the beginning and was very suicidal , it was hard to try to come to terms that i would have to hear this noise for the rest of my life and now im fine and come out the other end im scared to death of ever it getting worser and going back to that fear of the noise and going back to being suicidal.

One of the things i can do is prevent being around loud noises as much as possible such as when im on trains and buses i wear earplugs and in busy citys and loud places i wear ear protection but i avoid ect loud places such as clubs, concerts , cinemas ect.

The reason im telling you all this is because my dream is to own a dog my parents would never let me have one and i have waited for years till i was on my own but also until i had the time , i work from home part time. But dog barking can be loud and some people with Tinnitus are fine around dog barking others are not but even those who are being around it constantly for example can eventually cause a permanent increase in the loudness.

Now i asked on the tinnitus forum about this and apart from reccomendations of get a cat there silent which i understood why they said that im not a cat person and am only interested in dogs , the main advice i got was get the quietest dog breed that suits you.

By quiet they mean one who is not very reactive to things like someone coming to the door, not reacting to someone or somthing in the garden and and those who had dogs all said im getting it wrong with a berner as with them being a passive guard they are more likely to bark then a lab or golden. The dog people on the tinnitus forum were reccomending labs, Goldens , one also reccomended a eurasier as hers doesn't bark a lot.

So they said it is possible to own a dog and not worsern Tinnitus but you have to pick a quiet breed. Im also only talking about barking , things like whining and other vocalizations are not loud enough to worsern Tinnitus its mainly barks and really high pitched noises that are the main issue so they told me to avoid breeds who are more likley to be vocal\barky , or react to strangers at the door by barking ect.

I just am not sure what to do as on facebook groups for the berner ive asked on there and it seems 50\50 some say there vocal ( barking only) and some say they are not. And some have contacted me through messenger privately to advise i dont go for a guard breed and go for a golden ect?

I really am wanting help on if you feel there all right i should say no to the Bernese and choose a more quiter breed? Is that even possible like they say?

I want to also point out i know all dogs bark and that its there way of communication and luckily my ears are fine with dog barking but if i get a dog for example who barks a lot that will eventually make my condition worser which is why its important i get it right now.

A few Berner owners on the facebook group who have tinnitus have said there ears are fine with berners and that their not a vocal breed and i should be fine

Others who have bernese can tell u more about them .however my mum had tinnitus and menuires doses for about 40 years.  Between us we had 3 gsd ,1 fcr a yorkie and a pom x ( high pitched barkers the last 2 )
None of those gave her any issues either when they barked or over time and she was with them quite a lot .
One thing she did say was she decided that the forums etc were more frightening than helpful
So she decided to just deal with her issues as they occurred as felt it was better for her than worrying what could happen . She did take medication as well which helped to an extent but still had attacks of vertigo thanks to extra layer of menuires disease

Ive not been on them long but the tinnitus forum is grim and very scary on the stories you read and can cause fear so i agree with your mom.

Tone of Bark may also be important.

For example the Samoyed breed has a high pitched bark, which to me is as bad as scratching on a blackboard.

The amount and persistence of barking will be affected by training, and by dogs location in relation to stimulus likely to elicit excitement or territorial behaviour.

I have a dog breed required to have a carrying bark when hunting, though they should track silently and only commence barking once they have prey at bay.

As a result they are a vocal breed.

I cannot abide unnecessary barking.

I have always lived with near neighbours and ensured barking was kept to a minimum, especially as I had up to 6.

They were not left unattended in front of house, or in garden.

I had a solid garden gate, minimising visual stimulus. I was also very consistent with calling them in if they barked, so they learnt to be quiet when outside.

I always left them with Radio playing to minimise outside noises causing them to react.

The Bernese I have met have never seemed overly exciteable or reactive, and their bark not high pitched.

I would arrange to visit (Covid rules reliant) a Bernese breeder, and also Pet owner in similar accomidation to yours and see what their barking is like on home turf.

> I was also very consistent with calling them in if they barked, so they learnt to be quiet when outside.<br />

This is exactly how I handled unwanted noise when in the garden.   They did quickly learn!

> I would arrange to visit a Bernese breeder, and also Pet owner in similar accommodation to yours and see what their barking is like on home turf.

I absolutely agree - go see the real thing, and how it affects you.   Poor you!

I think a Bernese mountain dog would be a good choice as far as barking goes. They are generally affable and as long as you purchase from a reputable breeder who socialises puppies and you yourself socialise puppies, then you should be ok. You do realise they have a high cancer rate and the dog you choose will probably die around age 7-8? That is typical for the breed....

HOWEVER - what I would say is that, as a dog owner, you do end up exposed to OTHER PEOPLE'S barking dogs more than a non-dog owner. For example, if you go to the vet with your dog, other people's dogs will be waiting there, barking. If you go to training classes with your puppy or dog, other people's dogs will be there barking - sometimes a lot - and yet your puppy will really benefit and need to go to training. If you want to get involved in a dog sport or showing, there will be dogs barking here and there, because.... dogs bark.

So unless you want to make the dog you get a social isolate from its own species (which has its own problems), you may want to reconsider a dog....

Bernermom:  Gosh I am so sorry you have this horrible tinnitus.  My thought is as GPs tend to advise - don't go on the internet or facebook pages relating to your illness as they put everyone on 'high alert' totally unnecessarily....

You've had your heart set on this breed for so long.  They are at the low end of known vocal breeds and as other posters have advised, it's all in the training from young.
I'd follow your instinct with the homework & knowledge you have gained so far!

> You do realise they have a high cancer rate and the dog you choose will probably die around age 7-8? That is typical for the breed.... <br /><br />HOWEVER - what I would say is that, as a dog owner, you do end up exposed to OTHER PEOPLE'S barking dogs more than a non-dog owner. For example, if you go to the vet with your dog, other people's dogs will be waiting there, barking. If you go to training classes with your puppy or dog, other people's dogs will be there barking - sometimes a lot - and yet your puppy will really benefit and need to go to training. If you want to get involved in a dog sport or showing, there will be dogs barking here and there, because.... dogs bark.<br /><br />So unless you want to make the dog you get a social isolate from its own species (which has its own problems), you may want to reconsider a dog....

Yes i am aware of the short lifespan and high cancer rate and that has not put me off the breed as i really do feel they are for me.

Places like training class's , the vet ect i can put ear protection on before i  go in \ get there ect so i will be fine there. And i was hoping to have one to one sessions as well as training class's .

1234: Good God!  The Grim Reaper is more positive!

Labradors & Goldens quiet? Not the ones I have met that are kept as pets,

Bernese are not really a guarding breed, they were originally an all-purpose farm dog, and if you train your puppy from day one, to keep it's brain occupied you will have a lovely companion.

> Is that even possible

Certainly there are breeds of dogs that rarely, if ever, bark. Sighthounds are generally very quiet, especially in the house. One of my silken windhounds, I've had him almost 10 years, has never barked at all in his life. The others (12 and 8 years old) do bark when very excited at the racing, but they don't bark at all in house.

The downside of a breed like that is they are not guard dogs, I was getting a new boiler fitted once, I worked nightshift, I let the engineers in, showed them the kettle etc then went back to bed, taking the dogs with me. A few hours later I was woken by a strange hissing noise, the heating engineer was in my bedroom bleeding the radiators! Dogs never even looked up!!

They don't bother to wake up for most visitors, and you could steal what you wanted from the garden and even the house, they themselves would be harder to steal, they'd have to be carried off

If you've got your heart set on a giant breed than borzois (silken's big brothers) are also very quiet. I've owned 15 borzois over the years and only one barked at danger, one woof maybe 3 or 4 times in his lifetime when strangers came in the garden.

Mine were alert barkers so barking when someone came near the house so postman, dustman, visitors. A fox in the garden had to be barked at. Not a dog that would bark for the sake of it but they were alert barkers.

I have tinnitus and even took lip-reading classes at one point, because I had read that it was an indication of impending deafness! Since I developed tinnitus I have shown, trained and worked both sight and scenthounds without any problem - and through taking part in these disciplines, have been in contact with lots of other breeds. Only the dogs with continuous high pitched barking, affect my ears. You know, the type where one series of barks runs into the next - ugh! Even the background barking at Champ shows doesn't affect me - in fact silence bothers me far more, because I can't distract myself from the sounds. Because of this, I always have a speech channel playing quietly on the radio by my bed all night. Fortunately OH is a good sleeper.

Carole C i sympathize i cant stand being in the silence either , i play rain noise when i sleep ortherwise im batterling with the damn noise all night driving myself crackers.

CaroleC: > Since I developed tinnitus I have shown, trained and worked both sight and scenthounds without any problem

Well done! You have just shown that following your passion overcomes any health issues that raise initial concerns. All can be managed. Dogs enrich our lives in so many ways and even if ear plugs for tinnitus problems have to be worn continually then the benefits of having your pet far outways the negatives.

Strange but when I was recovering from my mini stroke in Feb of last year, I couldn't stand silence/quietness, it made me so uneasy and I have the TV on low every night.
so totally understand your radio helping.

Hope you go ahead Bernermom!!!!  You will be so fulfilled realising your dream

Hoggie - after everyones advice hear and hearing from more berner owners who have tinnitus i am sticking with the berner and listerning to my gut instinct which tells me the berner is right for me

Bernermom:  GO GIRL !!! I know it will be fantastic!  Good Luck & hope to get a wee update X

Thank you Hoggie. Dogs have been a 67 year obsession - they are not negotiable.
Ear plugs don't help with tinnitus, as the noise is inside our skulls. I tried Flares recently, (a small in-ear device that has helped some people), but they made no difference for me. Distraction is really the only way of keeping the sounds from being intrusive - a bit like being able to ignore what's on TV if you are reading a good book.
My OH has had a couple of mini strokes, and the last one took a little from the vision in his left eye. Scary things aren't they?

CaroleC , earplugs dont help Tinnitus but i mainly wear them outside in noisy situations to help prevent any further damage , i only wear them in noisy areas

I wanted to update everyone on this thread, after hearing from a lot more owners on the bernese i have decided not to get one.

The reason i chose to not go for the Berner is because i heard from a lot more owners who said they would not recommend the breed because they are barkers , they are not nuisance barkers but there are quiter breeds i coukd choose and over 30 bernese owners were recommending either a golden , lab or a gundog in general.

One owner told me she had both goldens and berners and had, had both breeds for years and she said she would reccomend the golden as all of hers have been very quiet were her berners are more Barky then her goldens.

I did some serious thinking about this and decided the best thing for my ears is to listen to my head rather than my heart and not risk it with a Bernese.

I then looked into the breeds that were recommended and i decided that if we ignore my ears for a moment then the Golden was the best fit out of those recommendations.

I then joined a Golden facebook group to talk to owners and see if they are quiet and every single reply was that there golden rarely barks and i got a lot of good advice.

I also spoke with 2 member's on here who have goldens and they have helped me a lot too.

After hearing from Golden owners and doing my own research on them i have chosen the Golden and feel more confident that there right for both me and my ears.

Bernermom:  Woo hoo!  Whether Berner or Goldie I'm sure you will be a great Mum!  Should we call you Goldiemum rather than Bernermom now?  hee hee!

Hoggie : i feel a lot more relaxed about a Golden with my ears. I was wondering if its possible for Admin to change my name

Bernermom:  I'm so pleased for you and that new addition will soon be with you I'm sure! Yip you can change it if you go into your Members page and EDIT. We'll recognise you as GoldieMOM then!

Goldens are wonderful dogs. Very versatile, you will be able to do so much and go anywhere with a well trained one. An excellent choice.

Goldens are lovely dogs, I’m sure you’ll have a great time with one. :)

Too much like my name lol.

I'll have to think od another name , ive contacted admin in hope i can change my name as i couldn't do it myself

Silence is Golden? 

>Silence is Golden?

That did make me laugh

Good name but i hate the word silence as this stupid condition has robbed me off it. I'd love to hear silence again.

Anyways i have chosen Goldensforever and emailed Admin.

Ive had further replies on the Golden facebook group and there all the same that Goldens are a quiet breed so im very happy with my choice. I do wish i asked about my tinnitus when i first was looking at the berner i would have found out then that they weren't right.

Im glad i found out now so i can find the right breed for me.

Thanks Admin for changing the thread title , much better title dont know why i didn't think it.

My sister sent me this https://www.officialgoldenretriever.com/blog/dogs-world/charlie-golden-retriever-has-loudest-bark

It has not put me off the golden as to me it doesnt count not every Golden is going to be that loud. And with tinnitus  its more about how long your exposed to loud sounds and the pitch of the bark.

Goldens I've met have not been relentless barkers.  All dogs bark sometimes- bigger the dog louder the bark generally but at least not yappers or squealers . Be aware puppies of any breed tend to be more vocal then the dog as an adult.

Im not sure what to do anymore, my sister asked on a different group but didnt mention my tinnitus and she was getting a lot of replies of there Golden being very vocal. So stuck again.

Maybe i shoukd just accept that not all dreams come true and that owning a dog is just another thing this condition has robbed from me.

I wanted to get a puppy as my first dog so dont want a rescue thats just how i feel and so wanted to get breed right but i dont think there is one because of my condition.

Goldensforever:  Have you thought about 'fostering' an adult Golden from a rescue centre?  You have no longterm obligation then but the experience of having one around.  I know you want a Puppy but what if the 'fostered' dog ends up a perfect companion and you could then adopt him/her?  Maybe something to think about... X

Good idea but I'd be worried if they wont bother with me if i said i can only foster Goldens who dont bark excessively?

And the thing is i only picked the Golden because i thought they were quiter than the Berner but its turned out the same as the Berner 50\50 so if i did foster and end up adopting i coukd have done that with the breed i loved the bernese.

Goldensforever:  Come on now - more postivity please.  If you were honest with the centre & if you explained your plight, some centres are only looking for 'foster parent(s)' to look after the every day welfare of a particular dog & behaviour studies/observations before they are ready for rehoming...don't give up - even just offering voluntary dog walking of the breed or being an onlooker with training classes who have a Goldie member would help you decide. 

My problem is i am an overthinker and overworrier and dont make decisions ligtly or easy to make

Why not enquire at both breed rescues ? U may be able to help a dog and see how u get on  you don't need a quiet one as if u had any breed you won't know exactly how that dog behaves. Just need to know how u feel
I would explain your situation to the rescue u never know u could be helping l a dog as well. 
As an aside I've had 2 flat coats and neither bark even at the front door . Yes if foxes are around but that is easy to remedy .bring them in and shut the door lol .
Ask others what they find with fcr .yes u have potentially got the cancer issue as u have with bernese which outs a lot off and also theu take a while to mature

As we we’ve discussed, goldens don’t bark to excess, they are more inclined to bark when excited and that is easy to stop through training and as a warning if they see or hear something, but again not excessively.
Isla doesn’t bark much at all, today barking was a count of four, not four separate occasions, but 4 barks because she spotted something out the back that she thought we ought to know about. She was easily stopped because I went and had a look, thanked her and told her to shhhhhhh which is her word and also I put my fingers to my lips as a visual signal. She stopped straight away because of her training, but also because I had taken notice of her alert.
Don’t discount them out of hand, ones person feelings on ‘does your dog bark alot’ will be completely different to another’s. I would say in general goldens don’t bark much. Their bark is deep and any barking they do is short lived, a minute or two at the very worst and they are extremely trainable so can be stopped if they do start.

Quite honesty all dogs bark. It’s how much they bark, how high pitched is that bark and can you train them to stop.
With goldens the answers will be, not much, low pitched bark, and yes

I agree goldens are much like fcr. Although my fcr do bark even less than the goldens we have had in the family
a single bark usually and low .more of a woomf ! My gsd s bark was higher bitched than the flat coats which was surprising given whispas size   he was a big lad nit fat but big

Thanks jodie , i think im overthinking too much and letting the few who said theres is very vocal make me doubt my decision.

Goldensforever:  Oh dear>  OK, being honest, no one can make that decision on your behalf and as you said, tinnitus is a longterm issue for you.  Most reputable Breeders have a contract that states if circumstances change you should return the dog to them.  Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating you have a Puppy under false pretences but if you get through the vetting process in every way then that would be your 'safety net'.  These Breeders have their Puppy's welfare at the top of their list.  Hope this at least helps with your decision making X

Furriefreinds: i did look at FCR but i read they were very hyper compared to labs and Goldens which put me off.

Ive not asked owners ect about barking

I haven’t owned a Golden but all the ones I’ve met have been pretty quiet.

One lived next door to me for years and we rarely heard him. When he did bark it was usually one big deep wuff and that was it.

There were a couple of berners at one of my ringcraft classes and they were quiet as well. Similarly the goldens there don’t bark.

Of course it might be that I’m completely deaf to barking after owning a very vocal papillon for 18 months...

My old lab was almost silent though. She’d have been a terrible watchdog, and if we were burgled she’d probably help the robbers find valuables and carry them outside!

Doubt we’ll ever get burgled with River the pap. Not without him waking the whole street anyway.

Difficult  that,  we have both in the family and yes they are more bouncy as youngsters or to be more specific take longer to become calm adults
They are sensitive dogs and are quite velcro like wanting to be with their owner although I've never heard that they are prone to separation anxiety. 
Ime they are quieter if the two breeds just bouncy for longer but manageable.  I wouldn't call them hyper especially as they are gundogs and many are working . Ive actually found many of the young labs I've met are very hyper until they mature ,goldens  less so . No offence meant nothing wrong with a nicely bred and trained lab at all
Maybe others will give a view

What about the Labrador. I grew up with them and they rarely barked. I work with a lot of Labs and only one is vocal when arriving for a walk.

I think I'll look into the lab just incase they are quiter than the Golden but i have just had a suggestion on the Golden group to Rescue a guide dog who didn't make the grade. Dont know much about this route I'd need to do my research

I should also mention the few who have said there goldens are very vocal all have said theres is very excitable , is there a way to train them to not bark when excitable or train impulse control so they stay more calm?

An assistant dog which hasn't made it is worth looking into, the main breed used are Labs but Goldens are too. Or a failed Police dog also is worth looking into for a Lab.