I think the problem here richgart is that you are posting on the wrong forum for the advice that you want as has already been said. All you had to do was go ok Thankyou I’ll try somewhere else of which there have been a couple of other suggestions. All we can do is advise on our beliefs. It is something that is allowed. No one has been rude, just asked for more info.

> what I was 'expecting', or rather hoping for was to receive help in us finding a puppy,

But we can’t and you were told that straight away.

No, it was suggested to me that Champdogs may be a good place to look and ask questions - did'nt expect to come up a wall of negative 'pure breeds' but hey, small minded people have to get their kicks from somewhere....

Then why waste your time on continuing to answer, or does your worldly knowledge think that a keyboard warrior such as yourself will grind me into a black hole??

And you were corrected when you got here which you can’t seem to accept. We are not the people to ask I’m afraid. Nothing nasty in that we just aren’t.

furriefriends - not upset, quite surprised by how a genuine approach has been met with such a wall of pompousness and people full of their own self importance. On some of the comments it would seem this was the wrong forum to ask such a simple question, 100% agree - I came in to this not knowing it was such a closed group and will certainly be putting people straight about the culture you all seem so keen to maintain if I am advised again to try Champdogs ...

Good lord, you really need to check yourself out once in a while...

Asking how to get a crossbreed puppy in a forum that encourages responsible pedigree breeding is like going into a Vegan restaurant and insisting on a rare steak, it's not going to go down well and of course people will try to get you to change your mind

chaumsong:> like going into a Vegan restaurant and insisting on a rare steak, it's not going to go down well and of course people will try to get you to change your mind
And this is the whole reason for such a heated debate.  The forum is here to advise on what they know not dictate their beliefs as the only acceptable way in a very diverse world surely?

chaumsong - nope, not sure I'd agree with you there. Didn't see any flags waving when I signed up saying it was only for pure breeds? So if you are expecting some sort of apology or retreat because I had the audacity to ask a simple and genuine question please, please think again.... Bullies, closed minded, lacking in life, and general keyboard warriors all spring to mind with you lovely bunch

You should all, in the main, be thoroughly proud of yourselves knowing you have only reinforced the view, that is felt by most of the sane and normal outside world, that there is nothing more inbreed than a closed group who only pour scorn on those who ask innocent, genuine, open questions, in a wish to learn more - many a sitcom could be written about this and you remind me of the video doing the rounds this week about the parish council

This has only made me chuckle at how weak and pathetic some of you are coming across, and I'm sure you'll feel full of pride thinking you "run a stranger out of town..."

Get a grip

Richgart, as has been said many times this website and therefore the forum is for purebred dogs. We are unable to help you find the crossbreed of your choice because no one breeds crossbreeds, it’s nothing more then that. Because it was unknown how much experience you have had with dogs, you were treated as if you were completely new to dog ownership and were advised accordingly.
I’m not a dog breeder, just a dog owner who likes to help others . We were all trying to help here but you seem unable to understand that the people on this website and forum only breed pure bred dogs and can’t tell you where you can find breeders of this crossbreed

Jodi - Your 'advice' has been most insightful, and thoroughly 'helpful'

Admin if you see this i think this thread should be closed.

The only bully here is you richgart , the only keyboard warrior or in your case troll is you. You know you cant be helped here so instead of just leaving it you just insult everyone who tried to help you.

From your last reply im starting to think you only joined to troll us since you find our responses funny.

I’m so ‘pleased’

Bernermom - Yeap, that's it, I got up this morning and thought 'I know, I'll see how many people I can annoy by asking a question about a puppy we would like to find', next I'll be asking you all to wear tin foil hats

Just drop it , you asked for help in finding a cross you were then told that we cant help you and the downsides of a cross but instead of saying thanks anyways I'll find a forum for crossbreeds you overreacted and were the one to be rude first and thats why since then people have been not as nice too you as were fed up repeating ourselves.

Just find someone who knows crossbreeds to help you instead of insulting others here.

You say were not the normal sane people yet your the one who cant seem to either read or take a hint this is not the right forum to ask this question so move on to one that can help instead of wasting your time here

Bernermom - Thank you all for being so warm and welcoming, I will look back on this experience in the seconds to come and think of you all as wonderful human beings who were so happy and warm in going out of their way to help...

I get it, this place is "a local shop, for local people"

The whole ethos of this forum and website is responsible breeding.

In the main the whole Crossbreed breeding thing is rather hypocritical, as they all rely on purebreeds in order to breed first crosses.

They are in fact using the hard work and expertise of the parental breeds breeders.

If they are breeding healthy pups it's down to the work of those people.

There are very few cross breeders who health test their breeding stock, though some of the Cocker.cross Poodle breeders seem to be doing some and going down into further generations trying to get some consistent results.

Once you get past the first cross the results become less predictable strangely enough, so more backbreeding and selection needed.

Out of interest what are the health results for the parents of the litter you were interested in???

What were the aims of the breeder?

Or was it just that they happened to own both parents?

This   "The whole Crossbreed breeding is rather hypicritical, as they all rely on purebreeds in order to breed first crosses." Says it all to me really.  I don't think as a breeder I want to devote my time money and effort to producing decent pups whether for show, working or pet just to then have that effort thrown into crossbreeds which cannot be registered hence cannot carry lines or dare I say it respect from other breeders.

Brainless - In the main I would agree that those we initially found appeared to have all the pitfalls and negatives first advised before people started to get the orange boxes out, hence why we have taken our time with looking.

On the pairing we found both parents were owned by the breeder, both had all the info you would like to see, and on missing out whilst taking the time to research the parents' backgrounds we then asked if we could be kept in mind if they had another litter. Without any hesitation the breeder then came back to say it would not be for at least another 12 months if not longer which then only further reinforced our view that they had all the right motives. All the signs and tells you would hope to see were there in spades.

I was advised to come to this forum / site for all the reasons you state and possibly find people who knew of avenues or outlets where all the correct protocols and practices are followed by breeding with good stock and healthy parents. Not here to upset the apple cart, dilute the gene pool, or force the breeding of 'mongrels' or 'abominations', just looking for help to find a healthy, well adjusted puppy. Who knew such an approach would cause such a furore ??

Luckily for us we have no finical constraints or time crunches, we would like to find the right pairing / breeder, but if what we have already found is the best fit then we will wait. My initial approach was to see if there where others in the dog breeding circles who had similar motives and outcomes, and in so doing we hoped to be advised on who would be best for us to check out.

That's it in a nutshell

Hi Richgart, again, you might be better to look at some gundog groups. Some moorland keepers use HPR x labs for moor work as they are very driven and very rangy.

Gundogs - Thank you, I will have a look - fingers crossed people on there will be more open to an 'outsider' asking dumb questions.....

Gundogs:  Excellent advice...I couldn't help as the Vizslador from Scotland I know is past breeding age and the owner didn't keep records of the last litter...

>On the pairing we found both parents were owned by the breeder,

Ah, I see. So this incredibly reputable "Vizslador" breeder just happened to own the exact two examples of the breeds concerned which most perfectly matched each other. Woe betide he should have to go and find another Labrador stud and pay a stud fee or find someone willing to stud their Labrador to his Vizsla (wonder why? weird that), he just happened to own two dogs which most perfectly complemented each other.

Ridiculous

Of course he's jumping on the bandwagon and breeding the two dogs he happens to own together because he can charge £XK for the puppies in the current climate.

And "at least 12 months" before another litter?!

Then if your happy with the breeder you have found, then being on a waiting list for over a year would be quite usual for many responsible breeders.

When I have bred I have usually missed 2 seasons before mating again, more rarely missing just one.

I would be adding people to my waiting list during that time.

onetwothreefour - you couldn't be further from the truth, but please let it fuel what ever twisted reality you live in

Any further reasonable communication with you would be a total loss, and an utter waste of everyone's time, I'd like to talk with the adults now - please keep applying the tin foil hat until further notice from your leaders

Brainless - I do agree, and we are happy to wait. We have in the past when waiting for Bengals and it was the right thing to do, so I do not see how it would be any different in this case.

My approach to this forum was to see if we could find a similar alternative solution and see if we could close the time gap. If we can great, if we can't then it's no stress

Sadly there are even fewer truly responsible crossbreeders than even pure breeders, as there are fewer motivations other than pups to sell.

Brainless - That is what we figured, but I hear their forums are a little less choppy

If it’s the litter on gumtree in Northern Ireland, the ad suggests there is one puppy left. Presumably they just haven’t updated it yet. No mention of any health testing of either parent that I could see in the ad. Dam is the viszla and sire is a chocolate lab.

Is it the one asking for £1,700? As thats a ridiculous price that would alone be a redflag to me

Jodi:  > Hoggie breeds labradors and could help you on that breed

The OP doesn't discuss the KC Registered Pedigree Pure bred Health Tested Labrador Breed as their choice throughout the whole thread but confirms they are looking for a Vislador.
Your comment suggests I could help - in what way and I would remind you to be very careful with your response?

What!
I merely suggested you as a Labrador breeder because the OP said that no one on here bred either of the breeds making up the crossbreed one of which is a Labrador.
Why have I got to watch what I say for heavens sake

Jodi:  Apologies if I picked your comment up wrongly on the question of crossbreeds, I am genuinely sorry.  I have had so many put downs on this Forum that I am probably over sensitive. I hope you accept this reply - sorry again x

Hoggie I don't think Jodi was at all suggesting you could hook the OP up with a crossbreeder.  I took it to mean you could maybe offer an insight into the result of a visla/lab crossbreed. Haha.

Huga<  Yes I know and I have said how sorry I am for getting the wrong end of the stick.  Thank you for responding

I'm sorry you feel that way Richgart

Your original posts didn't indicate what your dog experience was, but I'm glad your able to spot a good breeder from the less reputable ones. If the Irish breeder you found has done the health testing I mentioned in my reply on their dogs I would say your best bet is to wait until they have another litter even if it means a wait longer than your were hoping for as your chances of finding another breeder like them breeding this cross isn't going to be very high I'm afraid.

> Because we would like the best of both worlds.

Hah!   As those breeders who are messing around with long established breeds, other than for when a certain combination is wanted for a specific job (not just as a family pet either) are unlikely to be doing this for any other reason than income because they know there is a market out there amongst the gullible who believe they will be getting something special/rare, will just be churning out cross-bred puppies, you are VERY unlikely to get that.  
What you'd get is a total lottery, even within a mix litter - you might get lucky, but logic suggests you could so easily get the worst of both breeds.   It happens all the time.  Surely there are enough long established breeds now, to be able to find one that suits your family without funding these breeders?    These days, you'd probably find any number of mixed-bred puppies, most of which command a HUGE price.   It's up to you where you spend your money, but be very careful before you live to regret it.

ps    You will of course, find good and bad amongst purebred dog breeders which is where you should do your research - within breeds not just with those mix breeding.

Richgart,

I am interested to know what you are seeking in this cross when you say 'best of both worlds', what exactly does this boil down to in terms of traits, temperament, look?

As others have said, this is likely to be a rare cross outside of gundog circles and you may be better sticking with the breeder you know and trust.

In all honesty the odds are somewhat stacked against you. This seems to be a rare cross. A forum for those who breed pedigree dogs is unlikely to want to promote or know much about where to find crossbreeds, so your question might even be viewed as slightly provocative, even if that is not the intention.  The pandemic is not a great time to find puppies anyway. The 'best of both worlds' statement, only slightly qualifying why you seek this cross, points to an outcome you seem to have set your heart on but, with your knowledge of cat breedng and genetics, you must know that pinning so much on a rare F1 mating seems very high risk, resulting in progeny that may well not be what you hoped for anyway?

Fully agree mamabas, if it is the breeder who i found on gumtree who had a litter of vizladors in ireland then there charging £1,700 and both are just pets to me from what i can see on the ad which seems to have been taken down now , this breeder seems to be pretending to be a good breeder when there not , what was the purpose of the litter if there both just pets? Points to money form what i can see. Plus they just look like chocolate labs so why not just get a chocolate lab puppy from a good breeder

As regards looks, you can already find rangier lighter built, narrower headed Purebred Labradors among working lines, if your aim is to move away from the Stockier Show Lab appearance.

My friend has a bitch of titled working stock that many people ask what cross is she (most think Labrador.x Whippet)

I'll attempt to answer the actual question of how to find a good breeder for this cross (well, any breed or cross, not just this one).

My concern with that breeder you've mentioned is just how careful they've been with that pairing.  Have both parent dogs had all of the relevent health tests for their respective breeds?  For labs that would be hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid for me would be a preference too (in general but labs are a little prone to it), and I believe there are some others.  I'm not sure what vizslas need but any being bred should have every available test done.

If that's all been done and assuming the results were good, then what is the reason for the pairing?  That's not a cross that's going to be suitable for a lot of pet homes, so unless they've got a working reason in mind, I'm afraid that profit is the only likely reason and it's never a good one.

Let's say that they've done those parts well and they've got a good reason; what are their questions for you?  Are they asking lots and being careful to vet you as a potential home, or are they just asking when you want to pick your puppy?

And beyond puppy sale: do they offer lifetime backup, should you ever be unable to keep your dog, for any reason, at any age?  Do they have a sales contract with that included, as well as breeding endorsements?

There are other factors too, but those are the main ones for me.  If any of those conditions aren't met, then I wouldn't buy a puppy from them.

I have to agree though that you may be better looking at a working type lab.  Vizslas can be intense, and you've no way of knowing how a pup of any cross will turn out, unless that cross has been happening frequently for years already and the pups often have similar temperaments (e.g. we know that labradoodles tend to be nuts, and cockerpoos are prone to resource guarding and separation anxiety because both have been around for many years now but this is a very uncommon cross, and some crosses don't turn out in any predictable way).

Someone above mentioned that this particular cross could go either way, and my personal experience of lab crosses is that they tend to favour the other breed.  My lab X border collie is basically a border collie with a double coat who's prone to getting fat, and my lab X malinois was a lab with a slightly funny looking head, but with the nerves, drive and training needs of a poorly bred malinois.  Nerves that landed her with me as a bite risk at a year old because she'd been handled like an easy-going lab.  I'm not saying that's what would happen with your intended cross, not at all but it does show how what you might expect is not necessarily what you'll get.

The op believes that both parents are kc registered .if that is the case their pedigree and health test could be traced on my kc with any luck

Don't forget if you're moving a puppy from Ireland to the UK, you won't be able to get the puppy until 15 weeks and the puppy will need a rabies jab and to go through the revised Pet Passport scheme...

Is that the same for Northern Ireland. Has that been sorted out yet ?

I found this which may help

https://www.animalcouriers.com/pet-travel-between-uk-eu-coutries-after-brexit/

I don’t think puppies coming from NI need to be 15 weeks with a rabies jab. Going from the UK to NI is the tricky one.

ETA: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pet-travel-to-and-from-great-britain

Is this the litter with Molly and Jake? If so they have that and rust points in them which neither breed carries. Think of the Rottweiler or Dobermann markings and turn them into chocolate and rust, there has to be something else in that mix surely? You can't create a colour pattern like that from breeds which don't carry it?

I've just been reading some adverts for this mix, no health testing done and claims because its a cross it eliminates HD.. ffs and yes some people will fall for these utter lies too

> my personal experience of lab crosses is that they tend to favour the other breed.

Interesting that because of all the mixes that involve the Basset, nine times out of ten it's Basset features that prevail - long ears, short legged and with crooked fronts.

Oh and about poor purebred breeders, I was checking Dachshunds on Pets4 and came across a photo of a pup from a high priced litter with a front that had me almost in tears.   Noel would have had a field day.   I was tempted to write and ask whether they'd have the puppy's front corrected BEFORE sale.   Truly dreadful.

> claims because its a cross it eliminates HD.. ffs

All dogs can have HD, even wolves, regardless of breed or non breed.