Hi, please could anyone help us track down a Vizslador puppy as we keep just missing out

Why don’t you want a nice vizsla or labrador?

Because we would like the best of both worlds. As our family is now growing up we feel our lifestyle now allows us to have a dog and we have spent a good while thinking about what would be a good fit for us and any new member to the family. Its not a designer thing, just a preference from spending the time, researching, and more importantly interacting with dogs of our friends - one has a Labrador, and one a Vizsla, as we really like both, and by a complete throw away comment, we found that such a cross existed

Remember that every crossbreed is going to be different from the next in the litter. A purebred will breed true so u know what u are getting . A good responsible purebred breed will be breeding for a reason that isn't money  so will spend a long time researching their lines and the best pairing . That is often not the case with crossbreed

If u still decide to look for a cross u will need to know what health tests should be done on both parents before breeding  that means acquainting yourself with the health tests for purebred vizulas and labradors. Not vet checks.
Often those breeding cross breeds dont do the tests giving a higher risk of health problems in any puppy . Finding a responsible breeder then  isn't easy .
I would really look very carefully at both breeds and maybe consider one or the other  what is it u like in each breed ? Are u sure that u can't settle as family on one breed or the other ?. Crossbreeds are very much pot luck,even if u have been able to meet any .  This forum won't beable to help u find such a breeder but if u look at the breeder section u will be able to find breeders for all purebreds dogs and maybe there is another breed that suits better that u havnt considered .

Hi, 100% agree with all of your comments, which is why we are finding it really difficult to find the right puppy. We found someone in Northern Ireland, great parent dogs, all present and with all the correct health info, to then just miss out. We have asked to be put on their waiting list, but quite rightly they will not be having any more puppies for at least another 12 months. Given info on the cross is very limited, and really not wishing to scrape through the usual bottom quartile adverts, we though asking the question in this forum would be a better approach.

We feel a cross is a good fit for us and there is no simple way to define it other than we would like the best of both worlds.

It is a shame if you are telling me this forum is the wrong place to ask such a question as we have taken the time to approach, in our opinion, an experienced group with the question. I had hoped it would give a clear indication of our genuine intentions.

The breeders here are pedigree breeders so generally  won't beable.to point u in the direction of peoplel breeding crossbreeds especially ones like the type u want
. There are a couple of breed clubs for cockerpoos which have become very popular i belive but none for what u are looking for i don't think. Someone may correct me 
By posting here u may find more information generally on what to look for in a breeder and questions to ask . Generally learning more about dogs .
Any breed or crossbreed is going to be hard to find atm as the number people purchasing dogs has gone mad as have prices .
It might be worth considering rescue as its possible that the cpuod be what u want needing a home
If u feel that breeder u mention is a good one u may be best to be added to their waiting list a year on the waiting list isn't ling in the terms of waiting for puppies from good breeders
Given where we are with covid having any puppy isn't easy as socialisation training classes etc are very restricted . Also if people go back to the work place many dogs are developing separation anxiety having never been left.as we are mostly at home working or not  Something to consider whatever breed u have Therefore waiting a year isn't unreasonable. Hopefully this pandemic and the world will be more normal

You might be better looking on some gundog pages. Some moorland keepers find a HPR cross labrador to be an ideal moor dog, but I cannot imagine that it would make a good pet. Very driven and rangy- hence why being useful on the moors. As someone else has stated any crossing of such different breeds will result in very variable pups so you won't really know what you are getting.
If you do not need a pure bred dog, could you look to see if there are any nice dogs available in rescues?

Goodness, you do realise you could get the 'worst' of both worlds instead of the 'best'?

When you breed two dogs together, there is no way of knowing what genetics the puppies inherit. They don't get 50/50 from each parent and come out some perfect blended mix, that's not how genetics works. They may completely resemble their Labrador parent or their vizsla parent. Or they may look and behave like neither because when you mix their traits, they don't resemble what they did in their parent breeds.

Furthermore you're not going to find a fully health-tested mix like this. For the Labrador that means, hip-scored, elbow-scored, eyes tested within the last year, and DNA tested for EIC,prcd-PRA, SD2, and CNM and for the Vizsla, hip-scored.

What would you prefer, some silly mix which doesn't look like either dog or only looks like one, which is un-health-tested and bred irresponsibly by someone who just wants to make money in the current climate, or a responsibly bred and raised puppy?

I give up.

Really helpful response - thanks

Just to say ur intentions are obviously genuine its just hard to point u to a breeder that is also genuine as few who breed cross breeds are very knowledgable or they are more likley to be breeding purebreds.
Gundogs advice is good but do be aware that as others have said u will have no idea what any crossbreed pup will be like and the traits of the 2 u want are quite different and may not be suitable for a pet home or at least will be very hard work to live with

"Goodness, you do realise you could get the 'worst' of both worlds instead of the 'best'."

Was going to say exactly this.  Totally agree with the advice given.  I am not in gundogs but have had a Labrador in the past, a stray - thought to have been abandoned at around 9 monthhs and a more delightful dog than you could ever wish to have, sadly had to be put to sleep due to cancer at 13 1/2 years.  If I could get another with his delightful temperament, I would. 

The two breeds are different in temperament and to my mind would be an odd combination.  You have been given very good advice even though it is not what you wanted to hear and it is honestly given.  I have been involved in showing and breeding my own breed for over 50 years;  when I started out I was given sound advice by more experienced people and was grateful for their help.  I despair at what is happening in dogs at the moment!

I'd also add that "Labradors" vary a lot! There's a massive difference between a bomb proof ploddy show Lab with a great temperament but perhaps not THAT smart - and a hyper sensitive working Lab, very fast and active, and incredibly intelligent. At their extremes, they are really two different breeds their traits are so different from each other.

If you like the athleticism of the vizsla (or the colour?), why not a well-bred fox red Lab? (I know they are all the rage at the moment, but at least you will get a fully health-tested and well-raised puppy.)

Allegedly it was Marilyn Monroe who said to Albert Einstein that if they had babies they might inherit her looks and his intelligence. He replied that it would be awful if they got it the other way round!

I think you can see what is being said here.

As others have said crossing two different breeds is unlikely give you what you are looking for I suspect. You can’t pick the genes you like best in both breeds and pop them into a puppy, you will get a litter that will have different looks and temperament, you just don’t know what will happen.

What is it that you like is each breed particularly, perhaps we can help in that area

My other thought re deliberate crossbreeds as a breeder and bitch owner is that a bitch has very limited breeding potential, at most 4 litters.

If I have a top quality fully health tested bitch of excellent character, and where appropriate working ability surely I would want to maximise those traits in her offspring?

That begs the question why would you waste that potential?

The answer may be that the parents are not the quality to be bred from????

Do you know the registered names of the dogs in the proposed cross and checked that they have been put through the Health schemes.

Many hereditary issues especially the orthopaedic ones like Hips and Elbows appear in all breeds and non breeds.

Even some of the Single Gene conditions have the same form in multiple breeds like prcd-PRA.

If I mated my Elkhound to a Labrador I would not reduce the risk of prcd-PRA or Hip Dysplasia purely because the pups would be crosses.

I would be increasing the risks of HD anf Elbow problems, as generally Labradors scores are worse than the aversge in my breed.

Without DNA testing both parents pups would be equally at risk of blindness caused by prcd-PRA as pups from untested parents of a purebred litter.

A breeder should have some purpose to their breeding beyond producing puppies for sale.

There are so many purebreeds that have just the characteristics to suit anyone, and some are in great need of support in order to stay viable. Why reinvent the wheel?

I wanted to put this out there. An old colleague had a particular cross of 2 known breeds and a mutual friend loved this dog and wanted one just like it. They asked my opinion and I said as soon as you mix you could get anything, may look like one or the other or neither breeds and traits won't be uniform. I advised what to look for in a good breeder. They found this mix a few hours away and they said none of the pups looked alike. The one they chose was the closest looking to their friends. Her character and temperament was totally terrier like and not the other breed she was hoping for. These 2 dogs of the same crosses when adult neither looked alike nor behaved the same nor had the same character traits.

I would work out what traits and character it is you want in a dog and it could quite honestly be there is a pedigree you can get with these and then it will be far easier to find a responsible and reputable breeder.

> We feel a cross is a good fit for us and there is no simple way to define it other than we would like the best of both worlds.

Just keep in mind with a cross you are not grenteed the best of both worlds. A relative had a lab cross poodle that dog had the worst traits of both breeds and was to complete mess. Luckily for the dog despite regretting getting him they stuck by him despite all his issues.

Your best bet if you set on a cross of these breeds is to research both breeds in bepth, find out the good and bad and while you hope for all the good prepare for all the bad.
I would imagin anyone breeding them responsibly may be more on the working side could you cope with a working line gundog? They can be very different to pet/show bred.

Health wise the Vis parent should be hip scored and eye tested including the gonioscopy, the lab parents should be hip scored, elbow scored, and eye tested as a must and ideally DNA tested for pra, cnm, eic, sd2, hnpk.
To be honest this is going to be the hard part as the vast majority of people breeding crossbreeds for pets do not bother to do health testing as too many believe it's only purebred show dogs who need them. Sadly resulting in many crosses suffering health problems as a result.

Why do people who go for mix-breeding think they will get the best of both breeds when fact is you are more likely to get everything that's wrong in both breeds.  BYBs only produce mix-bred puppies because they know there's a market for them from gullible people who think exactly the former.   Fact is you may get lucky, but again, you are more likely to take on a puppy who may well keep you in the vet's waiting area (one open again) month on month.

Putting a made up name on a puppy with parents from two breeds doesn't alter the fact that they are a mutt, or being kind, a mix-bred animal.

Can I please urge you to find a good breeder, from either breed, and go see their adults, when allowed.

Please do not line the pocket of another BYB who is cashing in on a craze.

Good, and indeed Lord people.....

I came on here to ask a simple question and hopefully receive good advice from anyone who could point us in the right direction. I did not come on here to find out who knew the most about everything - some of the throw away comments are frankly quite childish and probably say more about the authors than it does about us.

We found someone, who in opinion, was the perfect option. Both parents, female Vizsla and chocolate Lab father, are both registered, both from supposed good blood lines, both present, and both in good active health, producing a full litter of very similar looking puppies - exactly what everyone is underlining. Our problem is we were hours too late in being able to home one of these puppies, in the main this was down to us following up on researching the parents.

Now to put in to context, and to go some way to undermine the abundance of patronising tones, my background is from an upbringing of dogs, pedigree dogs, so I am not a complete novice on the pitfalls of who is or who is not a good breeder. Similarly for the past 15 years we have had several cats, always Bengals, and always from the same three breeders, so we have a very good understanding about the markers to look for when scoping out potential 'puppy farms' - I would also like to add that the first pair of Bengals we picked up came from one of the most highly thought of breeders in the UK and to be totally honest the temperament was not as soft as the breed is known for, so there is so much more than simply falling back on who has the purest blood lines to produce the best animals. We are certainly not looking for a three legged abomination who will spend a life with constant medical support from a back street puppy farm.

Purchasing puppies, or in our experience kittens, is a strong mixture of background checks, homework, chemistry, gut feel and tells, and positive recommendations.

We did not come on here to find out who knows the most, or be confronted by a bunch of keyboard warriors wishing to prove to the world who is / they are the best breeder - my point in this is if you can not help, or you can not be nice, then maybe keep quiet. However, if you can help with good, honest, and genuine recommendations then we are all ears - please put your egos to one side and realise this is about a genuine approach, not about teasing out how much you feel you know.

Thanks

> if you can not help, or you can not be nice, then maybe keep quiet.

If I remember rightly one of the first replies was you are unlikely to find anyone on here who will be able to help you as it is a forum used mainly by people who have/breed/show pedigree dogs. You then complained about that. People are trying to help with their knowledge. If you want recommendations for cross breeds it really isn’t the place to ask in all honesty.

Im sorry you feel that everyone here is patronising ect but i have read all the replies and tgats not what im seeing , what im seeing is really good advice from knowledgeable owners who are trying to help and if you dont like there advice becuase its not what you want to hear then i worry for said future dog. Im sorry but you are being given really good advice and they all have took time out of there day to reply to you. I have had nothing but good advice from everyone here and have nothing but love and respect for everyone here.

I agree that a vizla x lab is not a goid combo and i am not a fan of mixed breeds im afraid.

My cousin got a sprocker as she could not decide on a springer or cocker so thought why not get a sprocker as then i have the "best of both worlds" she could not have been more wrong , the dog had all the bad traits of the cocker and had much higher energy levels thatln either parents and in the end was rehomed to the right home.

She now has a well bred cocker who suits her way better.

You still have not said why you like labs or vizlas what it is about them that you like.

Crossbreeds are just not a good idea or likley to be from a good breeder.

I agree with everyone above you should explain or think what it is about these two breeds you like and maybe one of them will be more suited than a mix

Also if you ask a question on a public forum you will get lots of different answers whether you want them or not. If you had said only answer if you know where to get this crossbreed from you would probably have been deafened by the silence.
Nobody knew that you had any experience of dogs and you were given helpful answers accordingly. Nobody was being childish, boasting or keyboard warriors, they were actually trying to help and explain why you may not get what you want with a crossbred dog.

What a wonderful and helpful forum, I trust you all feel truly satiated on your knowledge of pure breeds....

I'm not sure what someone looking for a vizsla x chocolate (presumably show bred) Labrador is looking for in a dog, to be honest.

It would suggest to me someone who is confused about what they want in a dog, since the traits of the two dogs are quite different and since you are likely to get a pup who much more resembles one or the other. (So why not just choose the actual breed you want.)

I don't see anyone being rude, many people have been very helpful. You've failed to say what qualities you are looking for in a dog, despite being asked many times by different people now...

> I'm not sure what someone looking for a vizsla x chocolate (presumably show bred) Labrador is looking for in a dog, to be honest.<br /><br />It would suggest to me someone who is confused about what they want in a dog, since the traits of the two dogs are quite different and since you are likely to get a pup who much more resembles one or the other. (So why not just choose the actual breed you want.)

Fully agree , why not just tell us what you like about both breeds or what you want in a dog and then we could help.

And what you look for in a cat breeder and dog breeder also differs.

Is this your first ever dog as in your first time owning a dog

Because its where those that answered knowledge lies. We don’t know about Vizsladors, but many will have knowledge of the individual breeds. Did it not occur to you when you came onto a website dedicated to pedigree dogs that it was highly unlikely that anyone would have the knowledge of this crossbreed, but have extremely good knowledge of pedigree breeds
Why not look on a more general dog forum which will have pedigrees, crossbreeds and mongrels owners where someone may be able to help.

For your purposes, and since you are set on a vizla/Labrador cross, I think you have two options:
either 1. stick with the breeder you have found, like, and already have a relationship with, and ask to go on their waiting list for their next litter (in fact, if the pups have not yet left the breeder you may be lucky and one of the promised homes may fall through); in any case, a breeder you have a good relationship with is to be treasured as they should be able to give you help support and advice if needed as your pup grows and matures.

or 2. follow up Gundogs’s suggestion to look on gundog, hunting, or country sports fora, or even fora for either or both of the breeds (and also HPR dog fora) where you may find what you are looking for, and further information on the mix you seek. If you plan to work your dog, or engage in canine sports, you may find helpful information there, too. As a working or sporting dog, there may be breeders for whom this mix has virtues in a specialist field.

In fact, there is nothing to stop you taking both options.

(The people you refer to as “keyboard warriors” are breeders of pedigree dogs (not mixes) with years, often decades, of experience, hence the replies you have received have been less encouraging than you hoped since they come from people who are both passionate and deeply knowledgable about their breeds. They don’t on the whole do “cutesy fluffy” answers, but are straightforward, even blunt (which is refreshing, if at times bracing). I don’t breed, but have been a member of this forum for several years and have learnt a lot from it.)

> Because its where those that answered knowledge lies. We don’t know about Vizsladors, but many will have knowledge of the individual breeds. Did it not occur to you when you came onto a website dedicated to pedigree dogs that it was highly unlikely that anyone would have the knowledge of this crossbreed, but have extremely good knowledge of pedigree breeds<br />Why not look on a more general dog forum which will have pedigrees, crossbreeds and mongrels owners where someone may be able to help.

Fully agree with what jodi said her but to add you may or may not still get the same awnsers on a general forum or even a labrador or vizla forum the reason i say this is because in the breed i have chosen the bernese im a member of a few facebook groups and a few nights ago somone mentioned bernerdoodle and everyone was against a berner mix litter. Good breeders tend to not cross breed what would be the benefit of crossing a perfectly fine breed like labs or vizlas. I cant think of any reason but money

If both parents are registered why not share and we can look them up to check they have had all the right health tests.

Why the need to justify our choices? Why do you, or anyone for that matter feel it is your right to question the personal choices and conclusions we have come to? I would genuinely have about as much justification to question you over the colour of your socks.

Looking at your (collective) profiles I do not see anyone who is an expert in either of the breeds we would like to find a cross of.

So, let me be blunt - We would like advice on finding someone with a positive track record of rearing Vizslador puppies. If you are unable to help then please, please keep your opinions, well intentioned or otherwise, to yourself.

I have not come on this forum to be schooled in who knows the most about their respective breeds, if you can not help us with our wishes then please just say nothing

Please either help us find what we are looking for or say nothing

You have been told more than once that you are not going to get recommendations on this cross as we deal with pedigree dogs only so since you want to keep ignoring our advice maybe you should find someone who will who wont be here.

And its not a matter of justifying your choices its a matter of if you tell us why you like both breeds the lab might suit you more for example than the vizla.

But you clearly dont want our help and dont seem to read the replies properly how many times do you need to be told this is a pedigree forum and NO ONE will be able to reccomend a vizlador

Hoggie breeds labradors and could help you on that breed

There are a number of people on here who breed labradors both working and show line.
I cant immediately bring to mind anyone who breeds vizulas but then I don't know everyone and there are hundreds of members its liley there are some.  I doubt any will be breeding the cross u want
Justification of choices. That isn't want people mean  This was only so as other options may be suggested to help .
This is a forum that is mainly for those who have an interest in purebreeds  that's not saying some including myself have not got or had crossbreeds and.mongels they just don't breed them
I very much doubt u will find what u are looking for here . Places like pets4homes is more likley to have breeders of lab x vizulas.
Good luck I hope u find the pup that u want and enjoy him / her

Where do you live? The flag next to your name is Indian so are you in India?

As to buying a deliberate crossbreed not bred to work or a specific function as you are looking for a HPR breed with a pure Retriever, it is highly unlikely that both parents will be fully health tested, ie all clinical & genetic tests available done for each breed.

Vizslas are very high drive & because they are a HPR, they need a high level of training to fully exercise their their brains. You can get away with basic training with show bred Labradors, but not working bred Labradors.

My friends who work their Vizslas know they have to work harder to channel the Vizslas drive than with Labradors

BTW I don't breed & never have. I currently have 1 pedigree BC & two mongrels(not crossbreeds actual mongrels) I have no prejudice against crossbreeds as long as the parents are fully health tested

you might find an accidental litter on one of the gun dog forums but most people would terminate the pregnancy rather then carry on as its a bit of a weird cross.

>We would like advice on finding someone with a positive track record of rearing Vizslador puppies. If you are unable to help then please, please keep your opinions, well intentioned or otherwise, to yourself.

Oh goodness Richgard.... I think you need a reality check.

If someone can show me just ONE SINGLE PERSON in the UK with a 'positive track record' (whatever that is) of breeding an incredibly unusual crossbreed deliberately, I will eat not only my hat but all the masks in my house as well.

People will say what they want to say on threads, and you don't get to tell them to 'keep opinions to themselves', it's a free world and if you ask a public question, you'll get not only things you like to hear but things you don't like to hear as well.

Suck it up or move on.

I live in the UK, in Northampton - as I joined yesterday I am not sure why the flag should show anything different

"Suck it up or move on" - just about sums you up in short order

I've noticed recently a number of members having Indian flags and the up address showing as india. When asked they have all said no they are in the uk   why this happening atm I dont know .tech is not my thing

Might have something to do with who supplies their internet, but I have no idea either. Mine suddenly showed I was in the US after having a British flag ever since I joined, so I removed the bit which shows the flag

Sorry, but what are you expecting us to do exactly?

Found this on a vizla forum https://www.vizslaforums.com/threads/difference-between-vizsla-and-vizslador.21112/

Looks like vizsla owners are also against the vizslador

>Sorry, but what are you expecting us to do exactly?

Jodi, shhhh, you're not allowed to say anything here, don't you know - unless you know someone who has a 'positive track record' of breeding Vizsladors.

Oh Guys:  Maybe enough now?  It's getting very nasty and I think we have all been here already and it never ends well.

> I trust you all feel truly satiated on your knowledge of pure breeds....

The name of the site/forum is "champdogs", so you have come to a forum of purebred dog enthusiasts.

Hoggie, have you become the forum police? Who has been nasty?

Jodi.  no of course I'm not the forum police but I do have a sense of humanity and this will go on and on and on upsetting or annoying people involved even the forum police that are on here already....goodness me!

I think its the op who is upset as we can't help them in the way they want not those who have replied .
I suggest politely that if u don't like the tone of the thread then ignore is probably best

I’m not a breeder of any kind, but I have owned a Labrador.

And I know a few Vizslas from training classes, and I’m wondering what characteristics you’d pick from each breed to create the “perfect” cross.

The young male Vis we did a few training courses with was pretty intense. His owners had to work really hard to keep his focus and attention and even so he’d break into bouts of almost desperate baying and jumping and trying to get to the other dogs (to play). He did pass his Good Citizen Bronze but I imagine they had to work very hard to get him there. He was a handful. Lovely friendly dog, but just SO MUCH.

The other one was a young bitch we met at ringcraft and she was a lot calmer, but she also found it difficult to be calm and would get very overexcited when she was supposed to be trotting nicely - she’d playfully and enthusiastically mouth her handler and jump up and spend a lot of time trying to play with other dogs. Standing still? Good luck!

Both breeds are fantastic dogs, but so different.

furriefriends:  the op is upset by the tone of responses, the willful objections to their choice of dog and how heated the whole thread has become.  There really is no need.  Advice is one thing, brow beating by number is a totally different thing IMO.

> I suggest politely that if u don't like the tone of the thread then ignore is probably best

I am observing how far this will go under the banner of 'helping' so 'ignore' would be futile.

You do realise that people as humans will retaliate when they feel their choices are challenged?

Jodi - what I was 'expecting', or rather hoping for was to receive help in us finding a puppy, I'm guess I was probably raising the bar a tad too high with that one...

Extremely helpful