I have been looking for sometime to buy a puppy as I feel my children are now old enough for us to bring one into our family.  Unfortunately I feel that I have now been priced out of buying one as the cost seems to have sky rocketed in the last 12 months. Pre COVID I noticed that the cost for a Labradore puppy (male) was around on average £850 but now is around £2500.   This seems very extortionate. Are there still any breeders out there who are charging reasonable rates or has everyone jumped on the COVID bandwagon and increased their prices by 150%.  Is this likely to remain or would it possibly return to sensible rates once the lockdown eases.

I seriously think something should be done about this because it's the same across most breeds, even Whippets!!   And even if, as is now starting to happen, the puppy is older than the usual 8 - 10 week sale age, people who took on a puppy during the first lockdown are now advertising them for sale at pretty much the same price as an 8 - 10 week old puppy.    I suppose as long as the market will stand these crazy prices, people will continue to be asking them.  And as said in another thread, how many people looking to make a good income out of their pets, will unfortunately be encouraged to breed from them.   Shudder.

I think the upper level of prices may not be sustained but I also don't see them coming down to a more normal level any time soon.   If ever.    I paid £800 for a 4 month pup as a show prospect, some 11 years ago now.   And would have to look at probably £3K now.   Which means I'm now out of the market for a well-bred (or not!) puppy.

I would say go to a Rescue, but good like there as all dogs, of any age or breed, are being snapped up fast.  You could approach the relevant Breed Rescue however.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/3072102-black-lab-for-sale-washington.html
I don't know where you are or whether you can travel at the moment, but here is one that isn't priced quite as high as others ..... even if I do not agree with the price asked just because they paid silly money for him and now can't keep him.   I don't recommend this website either, but you may find something you might consider on there?

I am willing to travel as that seems to be the only chance of finding one at a sensible price.  In terms of a rescue, that's proving impossible as most organisations are not rehoming any dogs at the moment and have closed their lists.  I am now beginning to think that purchasing a dog is the preserve of the wealthy.  Very disheartening.

Mem71:  > I am willing to travel as that seems to be the only chance of finding one at a sensible price

I understand your difficulty in finding a lesser priced puppy at the moment.  One reason for the inflated pricing is the 'supply & demand' situation we find ourselves in.

Another reason is that if you are not on a Breeder's waiting list with all details of the mating parents, had experience of the breed or been fully vetted as a potential new
owner and discussed pricing things will become increasingly difficult (which is what the Forum usually advises).

Covid Bandwagon - > I am now beginning to think that purchasing a dog is the preserve of the wealthy

Sorry but I feel the need to play Devil's Advocate here: When as a Breeder you have invested heavily with time, patience & full life upkeep of your Dogs, the last thing
you want is for any Puppy to be sold on for profit by a 'middle man' which is now fairly common if someone wants to make an extra buck and therefor you have no
idea of your Puppy's future. 

There has been huge debate on the Forum re 'Greeders' (Breeders who are seen as greedy because they are charging the going rate).
but by making donations to a dog's charity, starting a 'medical fund' for your own group of dogs or indeed funding local Breed Clubs directing that money to something
worth while gives a bit more protection in knowing where your Puppies are for their lifetime. Surely not an act of greed but a way of trying to stave off all the
negative possibilities of supplying a 'lesser priced' Puppy.

I dont think we really know what is going to happen to prices.
  Sadly I think if the price does stay up it may mean some of us will have to think twice now about if they can afford to purchase a dog of many breeds including crossbreed. 
Some think for many years pups have been under priced ,others that its demand that has done it. And it will go back
In your position as bad as it may sound I would looking  any for a year and see how prices are then .
If they are within what u feel u can afford then I would find a good responsible breeder and get on their waiting list. I know this will require a lot
of patience .
alternatively find that good breeder and get on the waiting list now. They may be able to give u an idea of what they expect a pup to cost and u can decide if that is what u can afford .
Just to add even if u find a puppy under current rules its going to be very hard to pick up a pup

I hear what you say regarding the time and effort put into breeding but it still doesn't just9the extortionate price hike of 150% in 10 months.  No matter how you try to dress it up, it seems like profiteering during COVID. Very unsavoury.

Mem:  > it seems like profiteering during COVID.

Fair comment.  My response to you was more about the concerns regarding resale of my puppy for profit but hey ho.
I'm sure there will be a puppy out there waiting for you and please check everything you can regarding the Breeder with a view to a happy, healthy new addition.

It certainly could be look at that way .however its what the market will bear and it certainly isn't showing signs of slowing. it still amazes me how many can find the sums of money asked . Indirectly driving up costs
Just to add this has  been  debated many times on here and it isnt every breeder there are plenty who have suspended breeding during these times and those who are or will be still selling pups at reasonable prices
Often its those who dont have to advertise or word of mouth .not terribly helpful if u are just starting out of course.breed clubs may have some information to help

> Just to add this has  been  debated many times on here and it isnt every breeder there are plenty who have suspended breeding during these times and those who are or will be still selling pups at reasonable prices<br />Often its those who dont have to advertise or word of mouth .not terribly helpful if u are just starting out of course

I agree furriefriends. There are people out there who are breeding carefully and responsibly (when the timing is right in between lockdowns) and are still charging reasonable prices. But yes, you are right again that these people are likely not having to advertise due to waiting lists which doesn’t help those who don’t have any contacts in the breed to find them. Not all are active on the internet in terms of websites and fb pages either making them even harder to find other than by word of mouth. They are out there though.

I agree with you.

I don't think charging more than an ordinary persons monthly take home wage is reasonable.

That has tended to be about the price in most breeds (there have always been a few exceptions in breeds hard to rear/small litters) for many decades.

A quick scan through some of the Facebook breeding groups with new ‘breeders’ asking how to price and generally all the advice is check pets for homes and price the same. This is sadly why we now have a situation where non health tested dogs are fetching higher prices than those from carefully thought out matings. What I will say though is I’ve seen an increase in some saying they have had less interest overall and had to reduce their prices (but that was with a starting price of over £3k!!!).

furriefriends> > however its what the market will bear and it certainly isn't showing signs of slowing>

Absolutely right and looking at the ongoing trend, well bred puppies will attract high prices however, I believe ill bred puppy prices will fall as potential new owners
wake up to the importance of finding a reputable Breeder especially when you look at the upsurge of information requested re pricing on the Forum.

[it isnt every breeder there are plenty who have suspended breeding during these times and those who are or will be still selling pups at reasonable prices]

> Often its those who dont have to advertise or word of mouth

Many reputable Breeders who have continued with their breeding plans (including those who have waiting lists, don't advertise or sell by word of mouth)
will have adopted the 'current market price' as a prevention to reselling for profit and the possibility of losing track of their Litter's wellbeing.

This particular group of reputable Breeders are devoid of having to disclose when they Bred a Litter during 20/21 and whether they adopted the new market
price when selling said litters - all very cloak & dagger so to speak.

I'm Keeping an open mind on the subject. Just thought it relevant to mention the possibility.

> This particular group of reputable Breeders are devoid of having to disclose when they Bred a Litter during 20/21 and whether they adopted the new market<br />price when selling said litters-all very cloak and dagger so to speak

I’ll happily disclose. Pretty sure I already have done but will do so again. Litter born in August (used my own dog and bitch for mating towards the end of lockdown). Puppies went to new homes beginning of October. All pickups and paperwork done safely outside. I had and still do have a waiting list of over 50 people, some of whom have been waiting for a year. All know my future plans and are happy to wait for the time being. They’re prerogative if they change their mind. Prices didn’t change - still the same as pre lockdown pricing for a well bred, health tested KC registered Jack.

Just because people don’t need to advertise it doesn’t mean they are hiding anything which is how your comment comes across.

Absolutely not. My current fcr wasn't advertised . The litter went by word of mouth mainly to those in the breed
I wasn't one of.those but had been doing some networking from someone I knew in the breed and eventually found brookes breeder.
She only bred occasionally and when she wanted a pup for showing / working.  Not at all an uncommon situation and certainly nothing cloak and dagger about it in this case or.others that are similar.
Just because someone doesn't advertise  doesn't mean they are being underhand .anyway what constitutes advertising?
A lot of breeders  have websites with contact details so u can discuss their breeding plans.

> .anyway what constitutes advertising? <br />A lot of breeders  have websites with contact details so u can discuss their breeding plans.

Indeed. I have a website and fb where people can contact me. And I’m happy to discuss my pricing with anyone along with anything else they want to talk about. I’ve been on the phone to people at a loss with the current situation for over an hour on numerous occasions. There is absolutely nothing underhand going on at all as you say.

masajackrussell:> <br />I’ll happily disclose. Pretty sure I already have done but will do so again

Sorry, it was never my intention to highlight/ask for disclosure from any Forum Member.  I come under those Breeders who bred responsibly between lockdown simply
because pandemic concerns eased at certain times and then increased without warning.
I too adopted all the precautions, safety regulations etc that you did and have ongoing waiting lists for both of my gundog breeds with a pricing structure already agreed.
I haven't hidden anything and haven't suggested you did as an individual either.
Goodness me!

That’s ok Hoggie. The cloak and dagger comment just didn’t come across very well.

furriefriends:> Just because someone doesn't advertise  doesn't mean they are being underhand

Whoa furriefriends.  I didn't say all Breeders who don't advertise are underhand.  I don't normally advertise but when I had an overly large litter, yes I did.  The advert
was there for all to see and I had no concerns about it. 
Why so defensive? Sorry, don't understand the 'angry air' of responses.

> Why so defensive? Sorry, don't understand the 'angry air' of responses.

The phrase cloak and dagger does have rather negative connotations Hoggie, surely you can see that.

It was the comment cloak and dagger which I understand to mean being secretive or underhand. Hence my reply being rather brusque

masajackrussell:> The phrase cloak and dagger does have rather negative connotations

It is an often used saying to me meaning 'no discussion of detail needed - wink wink'.  Yes 'tongue in cheek' using another phrase - not a negative just a way of saying
'what I do is none of your business'.

Surely you can see that such defensive responses when I posted this phrase only creates further questions.
What are your thoughts when someone protests to that extent?

> It is an often used saying to me meaning 'no discussion of detail needed - wink wink'.  Yes 'tongue in cheek' using another phrase - not a negative just a way of saying<br />'what I do is none of your business'.

The dictionary disagrees I’m afraid - involving or characterized by mystery, intrigue, or espionage.

Definitely implies something is being hidden or something dodgy going on.

My thoughts when someone protests to that extent? That they are offended.

masajackrussell:> <br />My thoughts when someone protests to that extent? That they are offended.

Possibly the case. I'm am not an avid Dictionary reader.

I would suggest that a group with no transparency and making such protest would create suspicion in any walk of life.

It wasn't meant to offend unlike previous comments such as 'the lady doth protest too much' that
I felt I had to react to when offended but I suppose that's different.

> I would suggest that a group with no transparency and making such protest would create suspicion in any walk of life.

I would agree if they were deliberately hiding what they do and refusing to answer when asked. Not needing to advertise because people contact them however is perfectly legitimate.

Pretty sure I never said ‘the lady doth protest to much’ to you so not really relevant.

I accepted your apology in your first reply so there’s not really any need to continue on this now.

ETA: and yes I know I replied to your comment to furriefriends but I felt it relevant to me as well.

If I’m totally honest I would have thought even harder, than I did, about breeding this time around. I was naive in thinking that lockdown would be a thing of the past as we entered 2021, when I mated my girl in mid december before numbers got suddenly worse and the gov changed their minds over Xmas etc. She is due to have her scan this week and I’m very worried. Not because of the lockdown situation itself, pups will have every experience they would’ve had prior as lockdown won’t make any difference to home life. But worried as to the amount of pups she will have - I have a waiting list of 10 people but 4 have said they’d rather keep their name down on the list for future litters (either wrong timing or in a different country avoiding covid etc) the people who hopefully will get a pup won’t be charged anymore, they’ve all waited at least a year except one family who have had a previous pup from me who asked to be on the list just under a year ago. I’ve mentioned this before but I will charge slightly more (not an extortionate amount though) if there are any people I have to add from now to my list for a pup to ward off resellers or people who will buy to then breed from a pup. I don’t know if this is the right thing. My worry is if she has more. I don’t want to advertise as I, as many others did, we’re inundated with emails that it was very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff and tell who’s genuine. Much more than there ever has been before. There’s a ‘we want a puppy now’ mentality where to me because they want it now and they don’t want to wait then it seems later on they regret their impulse buying and resell.
I had initially decided to breed her because as we weren’t in lockdown (at the time I was making the decision and during mating etc) timing wise it fitted for us, she works as a therapy dog and was no longer allowed in schools or they had shut and due to covid we aren’t allowed in hospitals, care homes, or mental health facilities either so I thought it would work. There are always pros and cons to breeding, and don’t get me wrong if she’s pregnant they’ll have the best upbringing and give me so much joy but the cons seem a little greater this time around if she’s pregnant. Breeding isn’t a job or a money maker for me and it does worry me a lot to think I’ve made a mistake by breeding her this time, I’m sure my worries will ease once pups are here and I’ve got definite owners but for now I will be a bag of nerves.

Don’t kick yourself too much madforlabs. You made what you thought was the right decision at the time and it’s very difficult at the moment. Do you know any other breeders who may have waiting lists that they could pass people on from? I have passed people from my list onto two other breeders in the last six months to help them out. Try not to worry for the minute, it won’t help anything. By the time the pups are ready to go things could be different and we will be heading in to spring which always makes things better.

Thanks MJR, made me tear up a bit...I know I’ve been super hard on myself. Especially now seeing all these older pups being sold on or put into rescues, doesn’t seem fair. Yes! Weirdly I hadn’t thought of that, been doing way too much worrying, my mentor and also the stud dogs owner have lists upon lists of people (the stud is a FTCH) so you’re totally right and I’ll contact them should I need to. You’ve honestly helped me so much, there was me worrying about it for weeks - the studs owner who I’m close to as well even said let me know if you have any pups available, I feel a bit ott now. I’m sure the worry will set in again at some point...when is breeding not worrisome, but it has helped a tonne to get that reply because hopefully any people they pass on will have had a bit of vetting so I won’t be starting from scratch.

You’re more than welcome. Yes hopefully those that are passed on to you will have been pre-vetted. You can then have a conversation with them over video call to get a better feel for them. That’s what I did with mine and found it really helpful. Now you can worry about the usual stuff! I’m sure everything will work out fine.

Not posted in a long time but now looking at breeding my next litter.  I am I confess in a complete quandary about pricing.  On the one hand I feel greedy, on the other I don't want my pups to disappear having been sold on.  And I also don't want registered health tested litters to become devalued by the influx of lockdown litters cashing in.  Stringent vetting is the key then price fairly once a relationship is established maybe but still no guarantee of a good home.

Huga:> Stringent vetting is the key then price fairly once a relationship is established maybe but still no guarantee of a good home.

IMO there has been a huge shift on the CD site regarding pricing, waiting lists and the success of thorough vetting.

Hope this info helps:
Create a waiting list from vetted potential new owners by contacting your previous litter owners to create interest.

Build a personal relationship now with those who respond and keep regular contact over the months it takes to produce your next litter.

Agree a reaonable price with those within this group and start video calling. skyping, asking for updates on there daily life during the mating/whelping/puppy raising period.

If you have an unusually large litter which outstrips the number you have allowed on your waiting list, have a seperate pricing strategy for those you may have to advertise.
You'll soon be able to suss out the good from the bad if they quibble on pricing.

Madforlabs:> ..I know I’ve been super hard on myself.

Please don't be!!!  We can only make decisions with the knowledge we have at the time an I promise - no one has a 'crystal ball'.
I have very confidence that you will find fab homes for your lovely litter!