Hi

I just wanted some advice, I managed to get onto a waiting list for a golden retriever puppy last year (July). The KC breeder didn't have a litter due until 2021 and stated the price of the puppies. I duly kept in regular contact and built up quite a good relationship. Yesterday the puppies were born, pictures sent over, explained we were on the list for a puppy. I was over the moon.

Today we get a phone call explaining that because of COVID they were increasing their prices by £1000 for each puppy...

I am absolutely gutted, I don't have that kinda of extra money. However I guess I either accept the increase or go without as it appears they could sell the puppies 10 times over.

Has this happened to anyone else, and any reputable breeders out there are you doing this as well?

The price of all puppies seems ridiculous at the moment.

I'd leave this litter and get on a waiting list for another breeder.

£1000 extra is greedy. A small increase to cover increased medical costs is to be expected but sounds like this person is profiteering. Also to wait until after the litter is born and sending you pictures before telling you about such a large price increase. That's emotionally manipulative in my opinion. Using cute puppies hoping to pull on your heart strings.

I know it doesn't feel like it right now but you've dodged a bullet here. A responsible breeder doesn't do this and you don't want to support greeders. The right breeder is out there waiting for you. This relationship will want to last for the life of your dog so it's worth waiting for. You'll get your puppy eventually. Worth waiting for the right one from a good breeder than let yourself be ripped off.

Hi

Thanks for the reply I totally agree with you it does definately feel like emotionally manipulation at the moment.

However the original price was £1500 and the breeders assured us they were not jumping on this covid bandwagon and we were really impressed by that. They are long standing breeders - 40 years. They haven’t had ANY vets costs so far as they are so experienced. So even with the £1000 increase it is still probably cheaper than most litters out there. But we do live in the south west and prices are a bit cheaper than elsewhere anyway.

We visited them in the summer, kc registered met the dogs so we’re more than happy with that.

But that just feels so damn cheeky.... To send me puppy pictures

This does rather sound like someone who has £ signs shining in there eyes. There is some thoughts that some breeders have increased their prices in line with the sky high greeders are charging as they are scared that their puppies will be bought at a cheaper price and then sold on to make a profit. I think this is the breeder not being careful enough over vetting their puppy buyers.
Do you mind me asking what this increase would bring the amount is wanted for the puppy?
A suitable price for a golden retriever pup from health and temperament tested parents and coming from good lines whether working or show bred will range from £1400 - £1800. This does seem to be a little steep to me, but it seems to be in this range now. I bought my last GR pup seven and a half years ago, she was a little under a thousand which I thought expensive at the time, but came from good breeders.

Regardless of what they said, they've jumped on the covid bandwagon.

My breeder (different breed) is hopefully having a litter this summer and her prices have stayed around £1500.

An extra £1000 per puppy (£8000 if the average of 8 puppies) isn't regular fees increase. Even being breeders for 40 years doesn't mean that they are a good breeder unfortunately. Don't let yourself get ripped off. They knew exactly what they were doing when they sent to the pictures first.

Hopefully with the vaccine out life will be more back to normal after summer and the prices should come back down. Reputable breeders that put off breeding due to covid are more likely to continue with breeding plans.

You can search breeders on this site by breed. Start emailing a few. X

Originally price they said they sold their pups for was £1500. Now £2500!

I would have been prepared to go up to maybe £1800.

Quite agree.

I could understand telling owners that they may have to pay for courier delivery if lockdown remains in force, and a small increase to civer extra costs due to Covid (arrangements for chipping and vet visits may have increased).

Quite agree.

I could understand telling owners that they may have to pay for courier delivery if lockdown remains in force, and a small increase to cover extra costs due to Covid (arrangements for chipping and vet visits may have increased).

I would run a mile. As Brainless has said, a small increase maybe or the cost of a courier but costs haven’t increased much at all. This breeder is all about the pound signs and you are much better off finding someone else as hard as it is. It will be worth it.

It looks to me as if this breeder is jumping on the bandwagon re prices - pushing her's up in line with what others are asking, and persumably getting.   I don't like it when a breeder puts a price on UNBORN puppies even but to ask for another £1K - unbelieveable.    No way would I be able to buy another puppy since the BYBs started charging/asking what they are, in my breed.   I hope eventually they all price themselves out of the market. 

Have you paid a deposit yet?   If not, don't.  Heartbreaking as it will be not to be looking forward to a pup from this litter, move on.   Greed, pure greed and as such, not anybody I'd want to do business with.

ps   I saw a 2 year old bitch for sale in my main breed on that other website - somebody 'selling for an elderly gentleman who could no longer care for her'.   £1500 and not even KC registered and although the photo was posted sideways, from what I could see she wasn't anything special.   And unspayed too.  I wrote asking him to please get her spayed before rehoming so she doesn't end up as another breeding machine.   To think I paid £800 for my boy when he was 4 months, 11 years ago, as a show prospect (which he turned out not to be).

don't pay.  This covid madness will pass and I think in few months time prices will have dropped considerably. There are going to be a lot less people who can afford a puppy with economy going bad with covid/brexit. It will affect puppy prices and this greed will stop.  Just because someone has been breeding for 40 years does not make them a good breeder also

I am appalled by the standards of some breeders!  This is my breed and many of us 'enthusiasts' haven't considered raising our prices.  Most of our puppies are going to people that have had pups from us before or recommendations and we wouldn't want to rip them off!
It's just an excuse to make more money.
The right puppy is waiting for you - just may not be as soon as you'd like it to

It would be very interesting to know exactly how the breeder can justify covid as the reason for the price hike.

What have they had to do so very differently? They would never provide it, but I'd love to see a breakdown of the extra costs and how they have managed to arrive at such a nice round figure.

I'd also be very interested to know, given lockdown, how they have ensured the pups have been exposed to various stimuli as part of their ongoing socialisation? What extra measures have they considered or taken to ensure the pups are well-rounded? This would certainly apply to pups reared in the country by older people who might be shielding and where those pups are being sold to a city based family with small children.

My advice, run for the hills. We should not support these unethical breeders.

I was in such a state of shock yesterday when he phoned me to tell me the news.

As far as I can tell they have not been to a vets during the pregnancy and delivered themselves without complications. They have 8 golden retrievers and are on the Kennel Club as ASSURED breeders having been visited only 6 months ago.

I am devastated, I investing a lot of time and energy into these breeders as they said they were getting so many emails that they didn't know how to organise their waiting lists and that those who kept in contact were clearly the most interested and reliable. We went to their house (in the summer) met the dogs, met them, we essentially vetted each other. I was very happy and totally prepared to wait.

As far as I can tell the only reason to increase the extra £1000 is because thats what everyone else is doing??? I said on the phone at the time I disagreed and that when I spoke to the KC they said that breeders weren't increasing their prices and that these are 'breeders' I told him that all these adverts at pets4homes etc appeared to be from homes where they have a 'family' dog and have decided to make an extra £20k!

We have beautiful chocolate lab that cost us £1200 2.5 years ago, amazing pedigree but we got her spayed over the summer as we never had any intention to breed from her and they thought of doing it to make money just seems sickening to me.

Have to say I cried myself to sleep last night

So so sorry, this happened to my parents last summer with an assured breeder too. They did complain to the KC and the response was that they would investigate with the breeder but that transactions were between us and the breeder directly. Heartbreaking and as you say, it’s the time you have also invested. Good luck and a waggly tail is waiting for you. I do understand some concern around reselling but £1000 at this late stage without an upfront discussion is unfair.

You don’t want a puppy from someone like that. Bullet dodged.

To be perfectly honest and to give another perspective...

I think £2500 is a decent price considering the 24/7 work it is to raise a litter. I don't see puppy prices coming down after this pandemic, they are just coming into line with what you would previously have paid in North America for a pedigree, health-tested, optimally raised puppy from a good breeder.

Breeders deserve adequate remuneration for all their work and I think puppy prices have been pathetically low for way too long - with the only exception to that being crossbred doodle litters which have sold at these prices for a long time.

If I didn't have a spare £1000 in my bank account, I wouldn't get a puppy in the first place because all the associated costs of getting a pup add up to way beyond that. Puppies are expensive.

I'm really glad that prices for other litters besides doodles have gone up, because they should be at least as much as a doodle to enable breeders to be able to continue to afford to raise well-bred, health-tested puppies which they have poured a lot of time into. To pay breeders the small amounts they were previously getting was only putting off people who would have bred well-raised litters and encouraging puppy farmers (who can pump them out without much money or time invested) to prosper.

Long may it continue.

For me it’s not about the price overall it’s about the fact that this breeder has raised it by so much after saying a different price. It smacks of greed. I agree breeders should be remunerated for the effort they put it but a jump like this is in the way it has been done is not on. If that’s what you want to charge for your puppies say it from the get go and believe in it, don’t just jump on the bandwagon like this breeder obviously has.

I don't dispute that the price of retrievers have increased and whether they should be priced at £2500 plus is subjective, I think if you read my posts its not necessarily about the price its about the way in which they have done it.

I had built a relationship with this breeder for 6 months (even when they didn't have litters due) They shook our hand and said the price would be £1500.

They had AMPLE opportunity to revisit their pricing over the previous 6 months and adjust, they could have easily said 'WE NEED TO RETHINK WHAT WE SAID' I would have appreciated the honesty and more than likely accepted the price increase. But to send me pictures of the puppies, tell me I am 2nd on the list and then ring and say they have gone up £1000 is out of order in my mind.

Thanks for pointing out how expensive puppies are, I know that I have a 2.5 year old choc lab, a Burmese cat and 2 house rabbits all of which are fully insured I am well versed on how expensive animals are.   If I was a breeder would I take the £2500 and sell to a person I don't know that well or sell to the person who has built a good relationship and you know the puppy will go to good home and not be re-sold/bought for the wrong reasons etc

Frankly, if I were in the breeder's shoes, I would do just what they have done in terms of changing the price - but I would have been more upfront about it, if people had been told another price previously. I would have emailed the waiting list and explained that the prices would be going up in accordance with market value, probably once the mating had happened. I would not wait till the pups were born. I'd do that just to give people more time to budget if nothing else.

But I can also see how a breeder could be so preoccupied by pregnancy and the big hurdle of whelping coming, to forget to email the waiting list about prices. So I don't think I'd really hold it against them that much... Puppy owners tend to think they are the most important thing always to a breeder, but the fact is that the bitch and pups and their health and welfare and getting them safely out takes far more of a breeder's attention at this time - and rightly so. So I'd probably forgive them for not notifying me.

The reality is that this breeder could easily sell these pups for £3500K and to no one who is already on their list. A breeder can ditch a buyer for any reason they like. Perhaps they've googled their house and decided their garden is too small or whatever, it's down to the breeder to make these calls.

People may not approve of the reason they've been ditched by a breeder, but it's the breeder's prerogative.

I’ve just seen a golden retriever litter on the KC website advertised for £3000. I think they must be gold plated or something! It seems an excessively high price to me. Dam has 1 for elbows too. It’s not just that ‘other’ site that is accepting high prices.

I too think you have dodged a bullet and hope you soon find a puppy with a breeder that you can have a good relationship with.

I understand what you saying totally, however in my situation none of your reasons really apply.

They had ample opportunity to advise me on this I have been sending weekly emails for 6 months to which they have been replying, its not like I went on a waiting list and never heard from them again. Also they don't even have my full home address at the moment! This unfortunately isn't a case of the breeder changing their mind because they aren't happy with the buyer, they just want more money. Yes the reality is they could easily sell for £3500 but now we are in lockdown they won't have the opportunity to meet these people. One of the whole reasons we liked them was because they explicitly explained they disagreed with this covid bandwagon, it wasn't good for the breed and they wouldn't be taking advantage of a situation. We were either taken for fools or they hadn't thought through what they were saying.

How very strange they have changed so suddenly after saying all this to you. To tell you so abruptly without more of an explanation seems wrong. Makes me wonder if one of them is less committed to being honest and idealistic and has been pressured into this by the thought of making more money

Jodi - Exactly my thoughts. All this time I have been in contact with the wife... Then yesterday morning I get an email from the husband with puppy pictures, I thought that odd because I haven't really been speaking to him as much (although he was the one I initially spoke to last year when I made contact). I then yesterday even emailed 'wife' and we had a nice exchange and I said I would very much like a boy as she had previously told me I was a=on their AA waiting list. Then in the evening the phone call from the husband.... he even said on the phone call he had spoken to family and his son had advised them to up their prices.....

If you have done that much work on selecting the right breeder and the timing is right I would pay the extra.  Might feel like eating glass but a dog's life time costs are between £20,000 - £30,000, the initial upfront cost is a tiny proportion.  It won't be popular with others but I would not hesitate.

A reputable Breeder will have waiting lists and have already discussed everything possible with the New Owner including price well before the mating takes place, never mind the birth.
SuzieQ22 has been sujected to an underhand way of working with this Breeder and is despicable thing to do to anyone IMO.

I operate one list and one list only at a time which contains names of PREVIOUSLY Vetted Owners who I have been in touch with over months however if I have a larger than expected Litter
the, just as well vetted but lesser known enquirers will pay 'today's' price.  For Info - no where near £3500.>

Puppy owners tend to think they are the most important thing always to a breeder, but the fact is that the bitch and pups and their health and welfare and getting them safely out takes far more of a breeder's attention at this time - and rightly so.
Absolutely right 1234 and for some reason take the stance that the fact they enquire entitles them to a Puppy

there is no way I would pay the extra.  These prices are not going to last. This is pure greed.  If it were not then they could say but we need a donation to X charity proven for the extra £1000 as we have increased price to account for putting off resellers. Or it could be that the £1000 is lodged at a vets against the dogs future medical needs .
This is pure greed and these high prices are what is encouraging back yard breeding/puppy farming.  
The high prices will not last as the economy is going to hell with covid and brexit.  Give it a few months and the prices will be a lot more sane.

Just to add that for me, a breeder is entitled to ask what they want for their puppies, and many may well start to up their prices in line with what's been going on since Covid hit.   HOWEVER I TOTALLY agree with the way this has been done.  To up the price by another £1K after originally fixing (?) a price you both agreed on before the litter arrived is shoddy treatment.   Or was the original price quoted just a (probably around figure?).   And I too think you may well have had a lucky escape.

FWIW my puppy prices, which were based on the going rate at the time, didn't anywhere near cover our outlay from the start (from buying our foundation bitch, rearing her through her showing career, then into her breeding career - which did often overlap - and the stud fee when an outside stud dog was used, and the obvious costs of doing the litter).  But as we only bred for our next generation - the right home was WAY more important than any financial reward.   My reward was having one or perhaps two puppies to take me forward and being hopeful the homes I found for my 'spares' were good ones.

Our breeding activities were never any form of business.    What's going on out there now is just shocking.   I hope HM Customs and Revenue are involved!!

Sounds to me like husband and wife disagree on this and thats why husband has  been the one to tell u . She has stepped back
He has validated the  decision in his mind by saying he has discussed with friends and family and they agree with him .
The extra price doesn't change how the puppy was reared and the quality  but if u pay it it will leave a nasty taste and certainty I would think u wouldn't want support from them if needed

You might be wasting your time, but I wonder if it’s worth trying to speak directly to the wife and tell her how hurt and disappointed you are especially as to what had been said re not going to overcharge just because of covid.
£2500 for GR puppy is not in line with the normal price of a golden at this time, this has been hiked due to sheer greed and is underhand and nasty.

What you choose to do is entirely up to you. If you do decide to bite the bullet and pay the extra then that’s fine, but I suspect you won’t feel the same about the breeders and that useful relationship that many puppy owners have with the breeder will be tainted which is a great pity.

It's a hard one because of the long wait and going through the vetting process.
The huge risk in selling pups to someone that has never had one from them before is the risk of that person selling the pup for profit. It is happening even with strict vetting process, sadly good breeders have been caught out. I honestly don't know what would be a good price but I could understand an increase on their part, by that much I'm not so sure. It's the way it's been gone about however if it's something they have just decided to do in terms of changing price then they have let you know.
If you are happy with the breeder in all aspects then I would have a good serious think on this.
Not everyone is discussing what others are pricing with other breeders so it will be an unknown what other good breeders are doing if they aren't advertising their litters anywhere or the price.

I think many breeds have been underpriced for years and in all honesty I'm not so sure that prices will be dropping back down again, or not by much.

Good luck in whatever decision you come to

As for the risk of reselling I'd ask for the £1000 as a spay/neuter deposit that will be returned upon providing proof. Or just for a deposit to be returned when prices went down and they still have the puppy. I'd do it upfront though not 6 months after talking to someone

"HOWEVER I TOTALLY agree with the way this has been done.  "

Reading this back, this reads wrong!    It should be.....  HOWEVER I TOTALLY agree about the way this has been done.  Whatever the reason was, nobody should expect to be treated like that.

Hey MamaBas:  We are all subject to the dreaded keyboard typing errors.  Glad I'm not alone!!!  Think most people would agree that the Breeder has been very underhand

@ Hoggie - it gets to this time of the day when I really need to get off here!!

suejaw: > The huge risk in selling pups to someone that has never had one from them before is the risk of that person selling the pup for profit. It is happening even with strict vetting process, sadly good breeders have been caught out.

So so true and an issue I have been bleating on about throughout the COVID crazyness but most responses have been derogatory.
However I don't believe this rule should apply to SuzieQ22 as she has been a 'model' prospective new owner and this decision has been forced upon her IMO.>

it will be an unknown what other good breeders are doing if they aren't advertising their litters anywhere or the price.

Exactly.  Litters that do not require advertising (sold from waiting lists) are not transparent on pricing or indeed whether they are continuing to breed through
the pandemic yet comment that 'reputable breeders' have delayed their breeding plans. (my findings on Forum Members Facebook Sites show a different story)

> <br />I think many breeds have been underpriced for years and in all honesty I'm not so sure that prices will be dropping back down again, or not by much

Absolutely.  New Owners only see the Puppy Price not the investment, expense, care and time put into raising Dam. often Sire and a healthy Litter.

>They had ample opportunity to advise me on this I have been sending weekly emails for 6 months to which they have been replying, its not like I went on a waiting list and never heard from them again. Also they don't even have my full home address at the moment!

That does sound really poor on their part. It sounds like the wife is a nice and friendly person and has established a rapport and relationship with you - but the husband is telling her (perhaps via their son) that they can get much more for the pups now and what they should be selling them for.

Frankly, I still would have empathy for them. So many people are struggling financially at the moment due to coronavirus. If my own parents were struggling and had already decided to breed a litter beforehand, you bet I'd be advising them to sell them for what the market says they are worth at the moment.

Like 91042 says, if you really like the breeding and they are fully health-tested, I'd just pay what they are asking for frankly even if that feels awful to do. In the lifetime of a dog, £1K is nothing. Otherwise what are you going to do? Wait a long time and assume that prices go back down again, when they really might not? Try to find a litter which you like just as much and is fully health tested but is also cheaper??

At the end of the day, everyone can rant all they like on social media about the prices and the current situation etc etc, but it doesn't change anything. It is what it is. Time to sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes

1234: > At the end of the day, everyone can rant all they like on social media about the prices and the current situation etc etc, but it doesn't change anything. It is what it is.
Yip, unpresidented times and an open mind is required IMO. (I couldn't do this to one of my new owners from my waiting list though)

I disagree.

My first pedigree dog was around 80% of my monthly Civil Service salary, my next about the same.

In my breed current price is £900 with most breeders, though know of one who charges £1200, and was shocked to find one charging £1400 this year, but their previous breeds were more popular/well known/commercial, so maybe that influenced them.

I sold my last litter 2 years ago for £850, and there were just 3 pups, with stud fee price of a puppy.

> These prices are not going to last.

The prices for non-KC Jack Russells are actually coming down from what I can see. There was a time when they were more expensive than the registered ones but now they are in line with or just below. So maybe there is hope on the horizon.

ETA: there's the odd one still high obviously but the vast majority are dropping.

masajackrussell:> there's the odd one still high obviously but the vast majority are dropping

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  Prices are holding, prospective new owners are aware of the situation and willing to pay the current asking prices and with a bar now se.t only
a complete change to the UK being a country of Dog Lovers will pricing revert to pre covid status IMO.

> I'm afraid I have to disagree.  Prices are holding,

Hoggie. If you read the post properly I was referring to Jack Russell’s (my breed) not all breeds.

masajackrussell:> If you read the post properly I was referring to Jack Russell’s (my breed) not all breeds.

I know Kerrie. Jack Russell's are holding their price too according to my alerts>

> I know Kerrie. Jack Russell's are holding their price too according to my alerts>

Well you must be looking at something different to me. I’ve been watching them nearly daily since the beginning of the pandemic. I breed KC registered Jacks and I know what decent breeders are selling them for. The non-reg ones started to come down in price just before Christmas as a general rule. They are now, as I said, in line with or just below what good KC registered ones are sold for from reputable breeders, whereas before they were more expensive.

Sorry, that reply was for you Elaine. If we need to be using first names.

Quite honestly I think the country has a huge unemployment issue looming and prices of everything will drop whilst essentials will go up :(

> The prices for non-KC Jack Russells are actually coming down from what I can see. There was a time when they were more expensive than the registered ones but now they are in line with or just below. So maybe there is hope on the horizon.

Yes I've noticed this too, I'm always having a look on the puppy sales sites and plenty non reg Jack russles and lurchers now under £900, a few border collies too. intact there is now alot more litters that are advertised at £950 or less, 6  months ago there was only a few around that price.

> Yes I've noticed this too, I'm always having a look on the puppy sales sites and plenty non reg Jack russles and lurchers now under £900, a few border collies too. intact there is now alot more litters that are advertised at £950 or less, 6  months ago there was only a few around that price.

Thankyou JoStockbridge

Masajackrussell:  I know you breed KC Registered Jacks and I can imagine you watch pricing nearly daily. Decent Breeders is a term that can be misconstrued so I suppose it depends
where you look/keep tabs on.  Are these decent breeders the ones I referred to earlier who don't advertise their litters. have no transparency with their pricing etc or the ones on the hated P4H site, News Classified & the Official UKKC.
Apologies for using your personal name - a slip of my concentration - by all means refer to me as Elaine if you prefer.

> Are these decent breeders the ones I referred to earlier who don't advertise their litters. have no transparency with their pricing

Yes these are people that I know personally within the breed who don’t have to advertise and breed quality dogs. I know we have our differences but please trust me on this point! Prices of non KC reg jacks have dropped and are inline with or just below those of good KC reg pups. It might change again, who knows in this strange world, but at the moment that is the case.

In my breed current price is £900 with most breeders

Very glad to hear that Brainless. I cannot understand why anyone responsible would increase their prices to the extent that is being done. I currently have a litter. I could have sold them many times over but a) the right homes matters more than who can afford to pay the biggest purchase price, b) I don't expect to make a profit from my HOBBY. Who counts the time a hobby takes up and translates it to money? We will all have saved money since March by not entering shows and travelling all over the place anyway.

My pups cost less than £1000. I don't think anything higher is fair. And I don't buy the oft repeated argument that if people cannot afford a high purchase price, they will not be able to look after the dog. It doesn't cost THAT much to feed a dog, and for vet bills there are pet insurance. Most people who only have one or two pet dogs can afford pet insurance.

Sadly I don't think for a moment that prices will drop again. People have got used to enjoying all the extra money. But there are still some peope left who isn't in it for the money.