Hi all,

So we had a litter of puppies in March this year, all well and healthy, then the dreaded covid-19 lockdown hit. All puppies found homes to go to, which i was as stringent as possible with and seriously vetted all new owners and was happy with who I had chosen as new homes for my babies. All were microchipped and correct procedures followed, I took photo id from all the new owners as is required. And all puppies departed to their new homes mid June.

So, fast forward to today and I get a phone call from the dog warden in Preston, which is a 7 hour drive from me and nowhere near anywhere where any of the puppies new homes were, to tell me they had a male dog which is registered to me so I corresponded the chip number and contacted the "new owner" who was adamant that the dog was sat next to him on his sofa, when I informed him I'd been contacted by a dog warden who had the dog in his possession he put the phone down on me!!

Unfortunately with current restrictions there is no possible way for me to collect him, to say I'm gutted is an understatement however, this whole situation has got me thinking, how can you ensure that a new owner updates the microchip information?

All relevant information has been passed onto the warden, who has ensured me that the person who took the puppy from me will not be getting him back and they will be rehoming him as soon as a suitable home is found. Im not bothered at all by the fact that the warden contacted me as I'd rather that than the person who took him from me was contacted as I can only assume he sold the puppy on for more than he bought him for.

So sorry to hear this, in this case was it probably not a good thing they didn’t change the details? The most recent puppies on our family were changed by the breeder. On a related note could you not use a licensed courier to collect this puppy from the dog warden? Hope it works out for the poor puppy.

100% agree, I am more than happy that I was contacted rather than the new owner as they obviously didn't have the best intentions for the puppy from the start. I have spoken to animal transport companies and they are asking for around £450 for collection and transportation of him, also I will have to pay the warden £170 for fees.

Gosh what a nightmare situation for you. If you had a contract in place could you get a solicitor to send the buyer a letter stating they need to pay the recovery costs or they will be taken to court - even if you don’t take it that far maybe they’ll feel obliged to make the situation go away? Good luck, let us know how you get on if you decide to have the puppy back or if the warden feels it can be adequately rehomed :(

If I had £450 + £170 spare I would 100% bring him home, unfortunately the warden (while completely sympathetic of the whole situation) will not let him go without paying the fee. There is a contract in place, however for me to enforce it via solicitors will cost yet more money . I did ask the warden if there was any way to report the new owner, it would seem there isn't!! I thought it was now a criminal offence not to change the chip details? In this case I do feel as thought it is a cloud with a silver lining as the fact that I was contacted means that the puppy now has a shot at a fairly normal life rather than being pushed around from pillar to post and passed on again....but I just can't help but wonder, if it is law, why can't it be enforced? To maybe stop this person doing it again!

What makes you think the dog warden will do a better job of finding a good home than you thought you had done? I would be very worried where he’s going to end up next if this was a pup I had bred. Depending on the area, some strays are sold for a few hundred pounds to the first person who looks vaguely genuine - no home checks and few questions asked. He could be on gumtree before the weekend for far more money. Obviously, I hope he’ll find a great home this time, but I don’t envy breeders in these situations.

I guess I'm just hoping that they will find him a better home, I'm seriously gutted that this has happened to one of my puppies....is there any way that I can report the person who bought him from me?

Honestly, the more I deal with people, the more I love my animals

To my understanding, dogs are chattels in law which means that once you sell it, the new owner can do what they want with it. Just like if you had sold them your tv or your car - they can sell it on, change it, or do whatever they fancy. It’s theirs. Whilst you can ask them to tell you if they decide to part with it, and give you first refusal to buy it back, I don’t think you can legally enforce it. If they had agreed to a contract to that effect and then broke the contract, you may be able to sue but what’s your loss? It would be a tricky one. I don’t think there’s anyone you can report them to for selling on their dog - it happens a lot.

It can be enforced, but they choose not to, there is up to £500 fine.

When I chipped last I could tell the chip register who new owners were, and they would email them asking them to complete the transfer, my details of course are the first ones as the breeder.

> is there any way that I can report the person who bought him from me?

I don't think that's the priority here, just be grateful that they didn't change the details and now you know that one of your pups needs help.

Are you a member of any breed clubs or working/show organisations? If so ask there for someone local to the dog warden and see if they can get the dog and keep him until you can collect him or find him a new home? Breed rescue may also be able to help?

Over the years I've been contacted by borzoi breed recue a few times, when they've heard that a zoi is in need in Scotland and I've collected it and kept till the breeders can get him/her, hope you can sort something similar out.

As I've said previously in this case I'm glad they didn't change the chip, it just got me thinking that if laws are in place why can nothing be done about the fact that they didn't change it

are you utterly certain the chip and the owner match? my vet when I took my puppy in last year said they have had a number of litters where the litter were chipped and owners were told the wrong chip number. eg owner told chip A was their black puppy when in fact chip A was in a different yellow puppy that went home with a different owner...   My own dog was chipped by the breeder in front of me when I collected and we completed the paper work there and then together

At work we had a young cocker spaniel brought in as a stray. I scanned it, got the chip number, and Petlog told me the details of the registered keeper, who lived about 50 miles away! When I rang them they were most surprised, because their dog was with them. After a long chase down the paper trail I managed to get hold of the breeder, and it turned out that there had been three black and tan bitches in the litter, and the wrong paperwork had been given with at least two of the pups! The actual bitch that we had lived locally, but her chip was registered to the other owners!

If it was me and I couldn’t find anyone to collect him as Chaumsong has suggested I would be going myself. I’d make sure I had food and water to cover the journey, pee in a bush rather than use service stations and go and get the puppy I had bred. It comes under welfare for me and no different to collecting a puppy at 8 weeks old or so from the breeder. Hope you get the pup somehow.

That thought has crossed my mind more than once, its completely unfeasible with 2 young children to do a 15 hour (if all goes well) round trip to collect him I've put a post out on a breed specific page to try and find someone who can pick him up and keep him for a bit till I can arrange for him to come down to me. Obviously I'm happy to pay for 'boarding' costs to anyone that can look after him for a bit....its all a sorry mess, this poor pup has has travelled the length and breadth of Britain in his short lifetime already.

Ah yes 2 kids makes it a bit difficult! Fingers crossed someone can get him. I’m assuming a terrier?

Yes he's a terrier, its so difficult to find someone trustworthy who isn't going to try and shove him down a hole before I manage to get him

If you want to PM breed I might know of someone who can help

Jeangenie: Microchip Registration & Breeder Responsibilities - Wrong Paperwork relating to a Litter's Microchip nos>

Just picked up this thread.  It is the Breeder's responsibility to update change ownership details on the microchip databases. 
There is no charge when the Breeder completes the detail.

The New Owner has to go through red tape and pay a fee of £37 if they try to do so themselves.

Vets can often get things confused even though most litters have coloured collars relating to their official KC Paperwork file handed over at the
time of chipping.

As per the Puppy Pack/Contract I provide, the new owner should visit their chosen Vet within 5 days of collection and this is when any microchip
discrepencies are highlighted. (previously I changed no details until the 1st vet appt had happened, health cleared and chip no confirmed email)

All can be corrected by exchanging vaccination cards which also have the printed microchip no. attached and I, as the Breeder goes back onto
the chip database to correctt the details.

Recently I bought a little hand held scanner (only £50 or so) and check that the microchip nos relate to the official paperwork on the
day of the Puppies being chipped thus avoiding issues further down the line.

Hope this helps

You can use a DEFRA approved pet travel company, they are still operating as the DEFRA bit makes it essential work... They will drive the pup to you.

With my puppy owners, I chip litters myself so I can be sure there aren't any screw ups - you can do a chipping course... and then I check my own microchip records to be sure the new owners have registered the pups. When they do, they disappear from my account. If they don't, I email and harass them increasingly(!).

It looks like the op has been quoted £450 for a courier and together with the wardens fees is unable to afford that .
I dont know if the courier she is mentioning is the same as a defra  approved one.might they be cheaper ?

Isn't it 'Lucy's Law' that puppies under 6 months must be returned to the breeder if they're to be rehoused?

onetwothreefour:> you can do a chipping course.

Both Petlog & Petrac do microchipping courses if you contact then through their sites.  You have a trainer arrive on site when you have a litter
on the ground ready to be chipped, you receive chips by the trainer FOC and you then have an assessment doing your remaining Puppies.

Re DEFRA Couriers:  They charge by mileage and whether more than one Puppy can be delivered/collected on the one trip.
eg Wales to Highland Scotland £890.  Wales to Northampton £380.  Wales to Bristol £168 and so on. 
My concern would be that I would NEVER send eg 3 X Puppies on such a horrendous trip to save the new owners money.
DEFRA or not, to me that would be a totally unacceptable agreement and one not to be encouraged - as bad as Puppy Farmers travelling
hundreds of miles with puppies in a dark van to meet new owners - Disgusting!

I did post a thread weeks ago about DEFRA Couriers but no one seemed concerned so I assumed Members had their own knowledge of their
practices.

I dont think anyone was suggesting using defra couriers  as the norm but as a suggestion for.this hopefully unusual situation

furriefriends: > Who suggested they were sending 3 puppies to new owners via defra couriers?

No one. A previous poster suggested the use of a DEFRA Courier.  I am making the site aware that they will often reduce prices if more than
one delivery or collection is made on the one trip ... I would say that is a relevant consideration especially when you have no proof that as
a company they wouldn't do this anyway. Please feel free to ask further questions if I can help in any way ... would I recommend Couriers? NO

I read read your post and realised that was an example and corrected my post.
the reason couriers were mentioned was to help with this particular situational not as a general comment on how puppies could be delivered  to new owners .

>It is the Breeder's responsibility to update change ownership details on the microchip databases.

Incorrect; it is the new owner's responsibility, although many breeders do it for them.

>The New Owner has to go through red tape and pay a fee of £37 if they try to do so themselves.

It costs £17 to change the details with Petlog, and is very straightforward.

furriefriends:  Just noticed you edited your original question. ie> your edited version = "I dont think anyone was suggesting using defra couriers  as the norm but as a suggestion for.this hopefully unusual situation"

The question you actually asked before editing was 'who suggested 3 X puppies being sent at once?"

Just clarifying otherwise my response would not have been understood.

I still don't see your comments  re couriers relevant for this post which was really my point
. Maybe if u.like to discuss the pros and cons of couriers  another thread would be more useful and less confusing

Jeangenie:  >> It is the Breeder's responsibility to update change ownership details on the microchip databases.

Unless you want endless reminders from the microchip databases requesting you as the Breeder change details when the new owner changes Ownership
with KC, carry on thinking this.  The data bases send very harsh messages reminding you of your responsibilities!

I can assure you they charge a lot more than £17 nowadays.  £17 is the charge made by KC for change of ownership.  A new owner trying to chnge
microchip details will be charged £37 if the Breeder hasn't done so and it is anything but straight forward!

furriefriends:  > I still don't see your comments  re couriers relevant for this post

Try reading the whole thread>  Jeangenie has just responded on exactly the same topic.  I addressed the pros & cons of DEFRA Couriers also having
posted a new thread 3 weeks ago asking that same question

>I can assure you they charge a lot more than £17 nowadays.  £17 is the charge made by KC for change of ownership.  A new owner trying to chnge
>microchip details will be charged £37 if the Breeder hasn't done so and it is anything but straight forward!

Hoggie the Petlog website is clear about fees.

>Jeangenie has just responded on exactly the same topic.

I haven't said anything about couriers at all. Perhaps you've misread the comments?

> Isn't it 'Lucy's Law' that puppies under 6 months must be returned to the breeder if they're to be rehoused?

No, Lucy's law bans commercial 3rd party puppy sales. So people licenced to sell pets can not sell puppies, you can not buy in a puppy with the sole intention to resell it on to make money. Private owners can  still rehome their own personal puppy if they later decide they no longer want it for some reason or can't keep it any longer.

Jeangenie:  > <br />>Jeangenie has just responded on exactly the same topic

Apologies!  It was 1234 who mentioned couriers further back in the thread.>

[url=undefined]the Petlog website is clear about fees[/url]

Petlog give you fees (£17) for changing details if you have your details as the new owner on the site already.
If you are trying to change details from that of the Breeder (as the new owner) that is a totally different fee.

>Petlog give you fees (£17) for changing details if you have your details as the new owner on the site already.
>If you are trying to change details from that of the Breeder (as the new owner) that is a totally different fee.

No, it isn't. It's the same £17 fee to transfer the ownership from one person to another, or to change contact details. One of my friends did this only a few weeks ago, and it was very straightforward! A few years ago, transferring your pup's KC registration into your name (for the standard £17) meant you received a code to transfer the microchip free of charge, but I don't know if that facility is still going.

Jeangenie:> you received a code to transfer the microchip free of charge, but I don't know if that facility is still going.

Well I had a call from one of my owners (of 3 weeks) on 26th December to inform me that the site told him it would attract a fee of £37 and an
official communication to them to make changes as the Breeder.  I've been a little busy this month with lockdown in Wales and elderly
church goers in need of groceries/support hence not having time to make the required changes as I would normally.

That link certainly says £17 for change of keepership which I assume is the section that's needed.
I assume u don't then also have to do a coa at another £17. If u did that would be £34
Have tried to see how far I can go without details.  Obviously I c any go right through but it is implying change of keeper .includes change of.name and address as well

furriefriends: Excuse me for being £3 out... £34 then ... not that pedantic.  Exactly, you can only go so far without details,  If Breeder changes originally. fine, but if you try to do it as a new owner without the Breeder changes you will be queried, referred and charged a fee.

> Well I had a call from one of my owners (of 3 weeks) on 26th December to inform me that the site told him it would attract a fee of £37

Could the extra few be for upgrading to a premium service?
I vaguely member when I Did my girls chip years ago you could either just change it for a smaller fee that one time of pay more and be able to update details unlimited times without paying another fee.

I paid nothing like that to transfer my dogs details. Ed has an Avid chip. I was allowed a single change of details free of charge, after that there would be a charge. Admittedly this was 12 years ago!
Merry's Petlog chip only cost 6 or 8 pounds to transfer. I could have upgraded to Premium, - I think that was about £17 - but chose not to bother knowing that she was with us for life, and we are never likely to move again.

>I vaguely member when I Did my girls chip years ago you could either just change it for a smaller fee that one time of pay more and be able to update details unlimited times without paying another fee.

The Petlog website says it's £6 for a single transfer, but for an extra £11 (taking the cost to £17 total) you can upgrade to Premium and have unlimited changes of address while the dog is still in the same ownership - very useful for Forces personnel who tend to move house very often.

I think Hoggie's customer must have completely misunderstood the process. Or perhaps he's muddling it with transferring KC registration, and buying a bells-and-whistles pedigree as well?

>Well I had a call from one of my owners (of 3 weeks) on 26th December to inform me that the site told him it would attract a fee of £37 and an
>official communication to them to make changes as the Breeder.

Hoggie, As the breeder you'll have been sent the Petlog transfer Code when you registered the pup's chip as the law requires. This you will have given to the new owner and they'll then be able to transfer the keepership to themselves for a maximum of £17.

Jeangenie:> As the breeder you'll have been sent the [url=undefined]Petlog transfer Code[/url]

I have an ongoing account/login with PETtrac not Petlog so there is no need for a transfer code.

> new owner and they'll then be able to transfer the keepership to themselves for a maximum of £17

No they will NOT.  They will have to download a PDF Form, complete it, return it to PETtrac,
pay a charge of £34 and then wait up to 28 days for changes to happen.  I would hardly
call that straight forward.

Is that perhaps the difference pet trac and pet log do it slightly differently and charge differnt amounts
.I belive hoggies owner is referring to pet trac ? where as jeangenie and the link I used was for petlog

>Is that perhaps the difference pet trac and pet log do it slightly differently and charge differnt amounts

Absolutely. The different databases each have their own scale of charges. Petlog is the major UK database, and appears to be the most straightforward.

Mystery solved different data bases :) different amounts ,different processes.  Simples :)

> where as jeangenie and the link I used was for petlog

That's probably because Pettrac has only just been mentioned by Hoggie and it wasn't petlog at all...causing all the confusion & different pricing

For the ease of the customers it might be sensible to change to Petlog for future litters.

Incidentally the PetTrac website quotes £16.95 for pet owners to change details.

More than likely lexy . No wonder its been confusing

furriefriends/jeangenie:

> Simples :)

Microchipping is a wonderful thing welcomed by all Breeders.  Wasn't aware that Petlog was the premium data base site but I believe all these sites are relevant
to the fuction they were designed for and important that we are aware of the optional sites available to Vets & Breeders