I wonder what people think of this advert for a litter due in 7 weeks

You need to read the whole advert, especially as the bitch will be having her 5th litter in 2022 !!! & mentions the dogs being on Champdogs

Checked the owner's advert on here & yes the bitch has had 3 KC registered litters the last on 8th July this year as per MyKC.

Hm interesting

That's just awful, and blatantly saying that they're not KC registering them so she can have 5 (or more?) litters, poor bitch.

It's not our frequent poster 'commercial breeder' is it?

Also misleading to say fully health tested when there’s a possibility of PRA affected seeing as sire is carrier and dam is apparently untested. Plus the other conditions tested for in labs. Makes me so annoyed, it’s not hard or expensive to do it properly. At least they’ve priced them reasonably (still too much in my view for u registered).

No someone with 1 dog & 1 bitch & no kennel name in England

Awful ,its wrong from the i am not registering the pups as I want a kc litter in 2022.says it all .

No it’s not Chaumsong, that litter was advertised on p4h at £2300

This advert is just awful, zero ***** given about the poor bitch

The only Labrador called Rosie from Redcar on champ dogs, that I could see, had her previous (3rd) litter July 2020!

That's the one

How does admin deal.with this when its blatantly wrong ?
Surely they need to be removed from cd at the least

Depends if they have broken the terms of contract for this site. Thinking of reporting it to KC

I have taken screen captures

Apparently not furriefriends...

The advert has been closed now...

:(

The bitch was bred back to back on her first 2 litters as well by the looks of it, 1st born 21/11/18 and second 22/6/19

New advert put up https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/3035076-waiting-list-open-non-kc-fully-health-tested-pups-redcar.html

chaumsong:> It's not our frequent poster 'commercial breeder' is it

I think people should be careful of their 'guess work' and initiating possibilities of who to blame for such an advert (names or no names mentioned)!

Apart from any of the rest, I have always failed to understand how a breeder can put a price on a litter BEFORE IT'S ON THE GROUND.

I never pre-advertised my litters - didn't need to!

MamaBas:> I have always failed to understand how a breeder can put a price on a litter BEFORE IT'S ON THE GROUND.

Exactly and I notice they are not members of P4H safe deposit scheme either despite being a frequent advertiser.  Lots of warning bells should be ringing with potential new owners.
By finding this advert blatantly ignores many Animal Welfare issues, I totally agree that it should be removed. The fact this person even suggests dropping the price nearer the time of collection smacks of deperation and a sale at any cost rather than securing a fully vetted forever home! Terrible.

I think u will find getting pets4homes to remove an advert is pretty nigh impossible. They don't appear to check the ethics of any breeders even when its staring u in the face.
It allows people to get away with all sorts

If they own both the dog and the bitch could it have been an accident and the 2022 litter was already planned. Still absolutely no excuse though. Not fit to own a bitch if this is the way they treat them.

But if the  bitch had already had  litters the health tests should have been done for most things even if she didn't  register them

Alizin injections are easy enough to get if there is an accident though. Letting the litter run it’s course is just pure greed. This will be the second back to back litter this bitch has had.

> But if the  bitch had already had  litters the health tests should have been done for most things even if she didn't  register them

Exactly furriefriends. This will be the 4th litter without the bitch being dna testing.

>Alizin injections are easy enough to get if there is an accident though.

Exactly, that is why I said there was no excuse

Might be worth sharing on Facebook with the KC registered litters, the dates and the issue of breeding like this. hopefully some of the prospective owners see it and change their minds on buying from this greeder. I wonder how many other non registered litters this poor bitch has had? Breed every single season I bet.

Sorry Agility tervs - missed that bit - speed reading!

This is exactly why the KC should take a stance on only registering health tested litters.....

> This is exactly why the KC should take a stance on only registering health tested litters.....

Unfortunately, on THAT website, all too often the litters advertised are not KC registered, so so much for that idea!   And to be devil's advocate, we do still live in a 'free society' so it's not for the KC to insist on only registering health tested litters - they can only advise that.

> And to be devil's advocate, we do still live in a 'free society' so it's not for the KC to insist on only registering health tested litters - they can only advise that

Is it not their prerogative though? Genuine questions. Could they not just say if you want to register your dog on our breed register then you have to have done all the advised testing with minimum xyz results? If you don't want to do that you can register them elsewhere or on the activity register?

They won't obviously because they would lose too much money and we know how much the KC are interested in that, but technically they could, couldn't they?

Of course they could, that’s what a lot o the European KCs insist on in adDition to the breeding exams dogs have to pass

MamaBas:

> it's not for the KC to insist on only registering health tested litters - they can only advise that.

They have such a high profile in the UK so no one questions their practices.  Many of their European counterparts are way ahead of them but the majority
in the UK are not likely to import so never look at those sites.  With this in mind, it means nobody questions the KC's responsibilities to prospective new owners
even though they offer guidance.  They make 'big bucks' out of 'joe public' which should also be considered a factor on whether or not they will ever change their criteria?.

> Unfortunately, on THAT website, all too often the litters advertised are not KC registered

THAT site should be taking more responsibility and only allow KC Registered Litters to be advertised I agree but again they are not interested in whether litters
are health tested at all so it's an overall problem with those involved in canine welfare issues.  It will always be down to the smaller guys such as CD to lead
the way IMO

I dont breed as u know hoggie but do they not check health testing when u advertise ?. I belive u mentioned at some point that u had advertised on there ,or am I mistaken ?

Ithought you may be interested to know this.  On the website pfh 2 days ago, there was an 11 weeks old blue/tan border terrier puppy advertised for sale (around £2400) and the description stated being sold as an unwanted christmas present from her husband. I was intrigued as the seller came from our same small town (or supposedly did). And it isn't yet Christmas!
A deposit of £500 was asked for.

Then a few listings along, I came across another advert selling an 11 weeks old french bulldog by the same seller with exactly the same wording/description. I reported this to the website and today I had a reply informing me both adverts have been removed and a thankyou for reporting it.  These are bad times with puppy farming, scams and stealing dogs due to the increased value.  I don't know how anyone dares advertise litters and show them on any websites including facebook.  It is so sad reading what is happening. I must end on a positive note and wish you a Happy Christmas and a GREAT New Year!

furriefriends:

I am aware you don't breed yes... does the P4H site check health tests no....neither do they care if litters are KC registered.  That has been established by many posters on here I believe. Do they check if you are a legitimate - sporadically (although advertisers have to agree to their terms & conditions). Have I discussed  advertising - no you are mistaken.  Have I ever advertised on their site - yes.  for info - did I join their 'safe deposit scheme' yes.
This is why you cannot tar every advertiser with the same brush.
NB  this does not change my opinions of the site's practices just as I posted which included comments of similar regarding the Kennel Club UK's practices and
I am sure many of you have advertised on their site over the years.

I apologise for my error on that point. So many discussions its  hard to keep up sometimes. 

What did u think of the deposit scheme ? Does it work for both seller and buyer do u think ? Deposits and scams seem to a big thing atm so some form of protection is useful i would think if u take deposits as not all.breeders do of course

I have very little regard for the site either and am very suspicions of anyone who does advertise litters there . .not somewhere I would use myself for a puppy or suggest anyone looks tbh

I have always failed to understand how a breeder can put a price on a litter BEFORE IT'S ON THE GROUND.

Why? What could possible change the price? You charge a similar amount to what other responsible breeders in the same breed does.

furriefriends:

No need to apologise, we all get a bit heated when it comes to animal welfare and as this year has brought so many increased acts of irresponsibility things
are completely out of control.

Re deposit scheme, I think it is too early to tell.  I insisted it was used for the two puppies remaining when my waiting list was fulfilled and both prospective new owners did so.  It did mean that as a Breeder I could cancel the deposit at anytime right up to collection date as prospective new owners also could.  So important
as it was the first time I have vetted, questioned & viewed individuals by virtual discussion rather than a couple of face to face meetings.

As a 'safe deposit scheme' member you have to provide passport, driving licence, breeding licence details so I believe that will stop some of the bogus guys.
The only way it will irradicate them all though is if they make the 'safe deposit scheme' compulsary to all advertisers. IMO

I thought it was 5 deposits taken not 2 furriefriends but maybe that’s the total from more than one litter. I wouldn’t like to assume.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2910456-fox-red-labrador-puppies-from-fully-tested-parents-llanidloes.html#

Thank u .that's interesting

Goldmali:

> What could possible change the price?

The price increases when you have more in the litter than the number of prospective new owners you have allowed on your waiting list to avoid resale
but I have never heard of a responsible breeder decreasing the price and such action would prompt suspicion as to why. Great highlight of how the
unscrupulus operate

> we do still live in a 'free society' so it's not for the KC to insist on only registering health tested litters - they can only advise that.

Actually in many other KC you cannot simply mate any dog to any bitch and register puppies.

Dogs have to pass breed assesments, some require wins at shows, temperament and Health test, and breeders have to adhere to various rearing conditions.

I have always been of the opinion that the price is the price, and have always charged the same as most others in my breed.

As a breed community we work co-operatively to try and ensure goid vetted owners eventually get a pup from one of us, so it helps that we tend to stick to the same price.

> I have always been of the opinion that the price is the price, and have always charged the same as most others in my breed.<br /><br />As a breed community we work co-operatively to try and ensure goid vetted owners eventually get a pup from one of us, so it helps that we tend to stick to the same price.

This seems sensible Brainless. But to be honest I don’t even understand hoggies reasoning for the price increasing - just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Brainless:> I have always been of the opinion that the price is the price

Yes you are right.  However we are living in unpresidented times as Breeders with the possibility that our Puppies could be resold to anyone if there is a profit to be made.

All I can say is send everything to the kc. Surely cd's doesn't want people on their listings who are deliberately not registering so the breeder can have a 5th litter. The KC will agree to a 5th litter if the bitch is in otherwise excellent health I believe, like if they are over a certain age too. Needs to be backed up by vets reports

I wonder how much resale is a real l.problem. its not something that can be done without a farer bit of advancd planning and risk.not to mention poseing as a decent potential owner as well.

I think it’s only really a problem for those who are not bothered about who they sell to. I think it’s just an excuse to jump on the greed train personally. I don’t see many (if any) well bred dogs being resold on p4h - it’s all the non registered ones from what I see. Obviously I’ve not looked at all the adverts on there though

furriefriends:

I don't have figures either regarding resale but it is something that has been discussed extensively within my local breed club and a real concern. I believe the thieves of dogs/puppies (rife at the moment) put a lot of planning into where/how they can find their 'stock' and some of the more savvy group's ploys IS to pose as a decent potential new owner.

There certainly has been an enormous increase in dog  theft and not just this year been increasing for a while . Its a real worry

That's a good point masajack . The resale on p4h appears to be random dogs often  unregistered or crossbreed. 
Although like u I have only given it a cursory glance not done a full study:)