hi- i wondered if anyone can advise me,please? my ten year old border collie ,Gwen,has always been fairly itchy compared to my other 2 collies,but now it seems to have stepped up a notch.i have thoroughly checked for fleas,there are no sign of fleas or flea dirt and her skin appears clean and normal.i recently tried a spray of cider vinegar in water(supposed to be harmless and good for itchy skin including ours),no noticeable improvement.i am currently trying a very weak solution of hibiscrub,but still she scratches,although its only been 2 days.she has a flaxseed capsule 3 times a week and is raw fed.anyone know of a good supplement that might help,please?im not particularly well off and would rather not go to the vet before trying simple things- i fear a large bill and a dog on steroids which happened to my daughters dog.thanks for any advice,pam xx

I've had to become an itchy dog knowledgeable person pretty quickly.

You will first need to eliminate parasites and mites as a possible cause. You can't do this by checking the dog because even one or two fleas can cause a reaction if a dog is sensitive to flea saliva. There are also mites you can't see...It is considered good practice to treat for fleas and parasites to rule them out because even with swabs and skin checks, you will miss them. You need to treat with Advocate first and foremost - which is a spot-on covering the majority of mites and fleas. Call your vet and ask if you can pick some up, because it is prescription only.

If that doesn't work, then you will need to see your vet... probably for next skin scrapes and swabs and tests. There are many options besides steroids now, although they are often used short term. My puppy is on them at the moment for itching. Tomorrow we hopefully get a cytopoint injection whilst we try to identify what she's allergic to.

If you allow itching to continue, you get into secondary infections, damage to the skin and so on - which is then a whole secondary level of stuff you have to fix besides the initial cause.

thanks for your reply-i have advantage in,but not advocate-is that for mites too then?i can get some easily enough. thankyou very much,and i hope your puppy  gets better soon xxx

Advocate is the only one of its kind really. It is also effective against all kinds of unusual mites and lice that dogs rarely get, as well as fleas. And it's a lungworm preventative so you've got that covered too and it covers roundworms. Not that those are causes of itching. It's not effective against ticks.

The other spot-ons are really mainly for fleas and ticks.

Advantage: https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-446208

Advocate: https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-446232

But if you've got the Advantage in already you could try that, with the assumption that it is fleas even if you can't see them...

Sorry if I am suggesting the basic, but have you tried Piriton tablets? This is almost a standard first aid remedy in my breed.
Don't tell the chemist that they are for a dog. Use Google for doseage according to bodyweight, but they are very safe.

Zuma is on Piriton - with vets agreement - and instead of £6.49 for 60 from supermarket I get them from Chemist4u - £14.99 for 500 !. even with vat and post the total is only £17.94 but same applies - they are for YOU not the dog

Just a thought but do you use plug in air fresheners at all only they are notorious for causing reactions and its possible that some outside influence is causing the itching. Its an easy thing to remove them for a month to see if there is any improvement before taking it down the medical route. Of course if the problem is causing suffering then the vet would be your first point of call, but for a long standing problem its worth a try first.

Anything different to normal? Washing powder, perfume, anything to clear floors with etc? Anything scented around the house for Christmas? Any new treats? I had two itchy dogs a few weeks ago and both sleep in my bed so I changed washing powder. One of them also don't seem to be able to tolerate chicken, even raw, so I stopped giving him anything with chicken. Both have stopped itching now.

Liver problems cause itching but I'd look for anything new in the environment first.

told not to use advocate on collies.   Milbemax is preferable.

I totally agree re not telling chemists the Piraton is for dogs.   I made this mistake not so long ago and once told, even if I said my husband would be using it too, the woman in Boots (who got quite rude actually) wouldn't sell me any.   I had to go down the road to the other chemist - saying it was for my husband!!    And yes, you can buy most off prescriptions things far less expensively online.

Perhaps look at the % of chicken in your raw? Chicken is supposed to be high allergen meat so could try omitting it if you can but you’ll need to try it for at least a month. Hope you get to the bottom of it!

Isn't Milbemax a wormer & has a warning for use in collies?

From NOAH

"Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds.."

hi-does it have to be piriton?only i have a generic one in(someone said in case of an adder bite when we went to cornwall).this is well worth a try-i hadnt thought of it,so thanks!xxxx

chicken figures quite high in their diet-thanks! i will save it for the cat who is very picky but loves chicken/liver mince!xxxx

thankyou-its quite possible ive tried something nice smelling thats affected her-im always looking for things that greet you with a nice fresh niff-got nothing against eau de puppy myself ,but friends may have-not that that matters at the moment! i will have to get my brain in gear and have a think.x

i will check up on this as unfortunately ive just sent for some.i may have used it once before,ages ago-i mean years-and dont remember any reaction.

The active ingredient in Piriton is chlorphenamine. This can be found in the generic form, or under other brand names - check online. It has a slight sedative effect. Different antihistamines may do the same job, but personally, I would stick with the one that has the proven track record.

You need to check actual ingredients as to my understanding Piriton is ok but Piritese is a definite no for dogs.

Yes I believe this is true tatty-ead. This is why I always give the brand name.

thankyou i will get piriton.ive done some checking on advocate and most say it has side effects if your dog has the gene-im presuming gwen hasnt got it-i hope!-as she had no problems when i used it a few years ago.thanks everybody xx

Hi

I have a sheltie who was very itchy when I rescued her.  Having tried various sprays I consulted the vet.  She was given a cytopoint injection which worked well but only lasts for a month or so (very prices at around £100).  And so then we tried Apoquel tablets available on prescription.  You have to experiment but I give the dog half a tablet every other day (occasionally more often depending on how she seems).  And they  are less expensive.  I believe that insurance will pay for Apoquel or Cytopoint but unfortunately the itchy skin condition was already noted on my dog's passport.  Hope this helps.

Cytopoint is much safer and better for the dog than Apoquel is, so if Cytopoint works for the dog, that is preferable: https://vetspace.2ndchance.info/all-of-dr-hines-dog-health-articles/cytopoint-versus-apoquel-for-my-itchy-dog-which-is-safer/

My pup just had one (see the other thread here, about food allergies - I actually think it's an environmental allergy, not a food allergy).

Cytopoint is based on the dog's weight, so lighter dogs will cost less than heavier. Plus some dogs can last 5-8wks between doses.

thanks-i have only just seen this-i have used the advocate,she is itching slightly less but hasnt stopped.i will look into the two items mentioned thanks to you both xxx

I think, if you've noticed an improvement on the Advocate, even partial, it would be best to continue it monthly for at least 3 months. That is the dosage recommended for mites and mange in the research. The most common allergen for dogs, is fleas - the bite from just one flea (which you don't even see) can trigger a huge amount of itching if a dog has a flea allergy. So you might need to go to the vet and investigate other things but if you did notice improvement on the Advocate, I'd continue it for 3 months if I were you. Fleas can take a while to completely get rid of, can survive in bedding and then rebite your pet even after being treated and so on.

(Personally, we saw zero improvement on it and so I'm not continuing it even though it is said to be best practice for allergic dogs to always be on effective flea control. I just am not giving preventative flea meds for the lifetime of a dog...)

There is a new podcast by a dermatology vet here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/your-vet-wants-you-to-know/id1532779114  Have a listen to the episode on fleas... it's the first episode.