Good day to you all

I've been scouring the web to try and get a sense of what exactly is required for the first 12 months of a puppy life in terms of veterinary visits assuming no emergency visits are required.

I would love to hear your respective thoughts, this is what I've come up with for the time being:

• micro chipping
• 3 x vaccinations (primary course)
• worming (how many times?)
• rabies
• booster (yearly)

Assuming this should cover it?
I see options for "kennel cough" but is this really necessary if we aren't planning on leaving the pup in a kennel anytime soon - or ever for that matter?

How often do you recommend a check up for a young dog? every 6 months? 12 months?

Many Thanks as always

If you are in the UK is a legal requirement that the breeder has the puppy microchipped before sale and that the chip should be registered to the breeder. There is no need for a rabies vaccination unless to plan to travel.

I only take my dogs to the vets if necessary, if they're poorly or I'm worried about them, not for routine checkups.

So for any pups I get there would be 2 or 3 vaccination visits, pup should be microchipped when you get it and may have it's first vaccination.

They should be wormed monthly till 6 months old then at 9 and 12 months unless you are worried about lungworm, then you could continue monthly worming. You can buy the wormers online or pick up a years supply while you're at the vets getting the vaccinations.

They only need the rabies vaccination (and their pet passport) if you're travelling abroad with them, we're yet to find out for sure what the arrangements will be next year travelling overseas with pets (with brexit).

I don't get kennel cough vaccine, dogs do mostly pick up kennel cough on their regular walks, or at training class, not just in kennels, but it's a virus with many different variations and the vaccine only protects against some strains. Every dog I've owned has had kennel cough a couple of times in it's life but I've never needed to take them to the vets with it.

I give the 1st year booster then not usually any further vaccinations, most people I know do the same. I've had my current and previous dogs titre tested occasionally and they've always came back with good results. The only thing they can't test for is leptospirosis, but there are several strains and it's thought the vaccine doesn't even last a year, so your dog is either not covered or constantly exposed in the environment (particularly near streams) and topping up it's immunity.

Great stuff thank you, yes - breeder is microchipping and doing the first round of vaccinations. Good to know about the rabies hot..

Many thanks for this, fantastic info :)

If your breeder is doing the first round of vaccinations, you should find out what brand of vaccines her vet uses and check that your vet uses the same brand. If the brands are different, most vets will insist on restarting the vaccinations from scratch. So you could in that situation phone around a few vets to try to find one who stocks the same brand of vaccine as your breeder.

This is why it is much better if the breeder does not give the first vaccination....

Take out a lifetime pet insurance policy.  The time most dogs have horrible expensive accidents or reveal some life long condition is usually in first 18 months of life.  You may decide not to continue it after first year or so but covering first year is to me essential, Puppies are nutters and could injure themselves in a padded cell. A broken leg can easily be over a thousand £.
My whippet pup managed to catch an infection a few weeks after we had her- was over £400 at vet. Could have been a lot more if first treatment had not cleared it.

You also need to budget for puppy training classes- if you want a nice well behaved dog they are essential.  I have had dogs for many years but it is impossible to train a puppy to be nice with other dogs without having plenty of other dogs around in a structured envirament to teach them.  Random family members dogs is not the same as a structured well run class.

Lung worm is now common across much of the UK, this needs a monthly pill from vet.

> Take out a lifetime pet insurance policy.

Agreed, I insure all puppies, I don't carry it on after the age of 1 or 2 as I have a pretty healthy breed, but as weimed said, puppies are nutters :D

> You also need to budget for puppy training classes

Also agree, classes are essential even for the most experienced owners, your first few weeks might be really embarrassing but stick with it, everyone's been there

If you're in the UK, a puppy course of immunisation is only 2 injections, 2 to 4 weeks apart, depending on whether Lepto2 or Lepto4 is given. Microchipping should by law be done before puppies leave the breeder. Worming needs to be done 3 times up to 8 weeks (but no vet visit needed) then monthly till 6 months, then every 3 months. It's a good idea to pop into the vet's reception area for a weigh-in to make sure you get the dosage right! No rabies injection needed if not travelling overseas. I don't give kennel cough immunisation because it's not very effective, and my dogs don't mix much with others. An annual check-up, including weigh-in,  at the time of the yearly boosters is essential, especially if you're a novice owner. Insurance for the first year is sensible - puppies can getinto all sorts of mischief and hurt themselves!

Training classes are an excellent way of teaching owners how to train their dogs, and even experienced owners can always find more to learn!

I never vaccinate a puppy until after 10 weeks of age & also do a titre test beforehand to ensure maternal immunity has waned completely. Only 1 combined vaccination is required after 10 weeks(as per manufacturer guidelines)
Never give Lepto2 or Lepto4 due to the reaction they can & do cause.
My vet will not vaccinate without a titre test first(Vaccheck included in cost of vaccination) They also offer Lepto vax as an addition not as routine. They have too many bad reactions to both types.

> I never vaccinate a puppy until after 10 weeks of age.

Does this mean that the 8 wk old Puppy may have waned completely but you don't do a titre test until 10 wks and hold
the combined vaccination until then irrespective?

> Never give Lepto2 or Lepto4

This concerns me as Nobivac L4 has always been the product administered to my Litters.

What percentage of Puppies who have this jab have a bad reaction and is it small breeds or all breeds that are likely
to react?

Most of what I've read here I'd agree with.   We sold most of our puppies at 10 weeks, at which time their new owners were asked to see their own vet within 48 hours.   They went without a vaccination as all too often, vets will start again.   I didn't ignore the Lepto shot - which is worse, any potential side effect (we used L2) or picking up Leptospirosis - rats are everywhere.

Ideally a titre test should be done on each puppy to check whether mum's natural immunity has dropped away but that was expensive with the numbers of puppies my main breed could have, and waiting to 10 weeks 'should' have been good enough.

We never did vet visits between the annual booster visit, unless needed.

And yes, in the UK microchipping should be done by the breeder.

> They also offer Lepto vax as an addition not as routine.

That's an unusual stance, because the WSAVA has listed lepto as a core vaccine in the UK, as the disease is found all over the country. L2 is the vaccine I keep going all through my dogs' lives (never had any adverse reactions in multiple dogs over 40+ years) - I'd only give L4 if the dog was going abroad because the extra serovars it covers aren't (yet) found in this country.

Are you a vet Jeangenie?  I presume that you are aware that all manufacturers of vaccines for dog have a get out clause in that they state only healthy dogs should be vaccinated, it let's them put down adverse reactions to whatever medical condition the dog has(even minor conditions)
The problem with giving puppies the initial vaccinations twice when their immune system is immature is that it can be overwhelmed especially if the maternal immunity is still present in any form. Add this to the routine worming at the same time on the same day compounds the assault on the partial immune system.
When vaccines were originally introduced the manufacturers were aware of maternal immunity, but had no means of testing it, so advised dosing twice once before & once after the time that the maternal immunity had usually waned.
I am surprised that you have never seen a reaction, you are aware that the lump that is frequently seen at the injection point in puppies & older dogs is in fact an adverse reaction, since my vet has introduced titre testing before any initial or booster vaccination, they no longer see this. Pure coincidence, of course, with your reasoning.

I also don't give the lepto vaccinations. They are not routinely given in North America and they have the same incidence of lepto as us. So either they are happy to have bazillions of dogs needlessly dying of lepto.... OR... the vaccine is ineffective anyway.

I give 1st vaccine at 9wks and then 2nd vaccine at 20wks. Only DHP. I don't titre because I find blood tests are a bit traumatic and I don't want that to be one of my puppy's first experiences at the vet. Physically and health-wise it would be best, but IMO behavioural health wins out on that one. So I just make sure to give the final vaccine at 20wks to avoid maternal antibodies interfering.

> I am surprised that you have never seen a reaction,

Well I'm not!!    We have always had Lepto included in the puppy vaccination, without ANY reaction.   I always massage the injection area straight away.

The vets I use, having decided whether or not I can work with them when we move, would never vaccinate or booster a sick dog - not that I'd ever take a sick dog for vaccination or boosters in any case!   Our puppies were wormed from 2 weeks of age and every 2 weeks, so there was NO need for worming at the time puppy vaccination was given.

Our puppies were vaccinated at around 10 weeks, and then again 2 weeks later.   For decades.

>Are you a vet Jeangenie?

No I'm not, but apart from my observations of my own dogs over the decades, I have also worked in a vet practice for over 14 years, assisting with vaccinations for many dogs and puppies every week. In 14 years we have had one single adverse reaction, and of course it was reported.

>you are aware that the lump that is frequently seen at the injection point in puppies & older dogs is in fact an adverse reaction,

No, that's not an 'adverse reaction' - that's a desirable reaction because it proves that the body has recognised the introduction of the germs and is learning to disable them!

For clarity, the 'Common Reactions' listed in this article are not considered to be 'Adverse reactions' that need to be reported, but are showing that the organism is developing the correct response to the invading disease cells. The 'Less common ones' are.

So you are a qualified VN then?

Sorry I don't need to read articles from the Internet to understand the Immunology"theories". I spent a lot of time actually physically researching the origins of vaccinosis & the reaction sites of vaccinations are vaccinosis & not an indication of the efficacy of the vaccine.

My personal vaccination regime was developed with the assistance of the Professor of Immunology of a Veterinary School, not just things googled from the internet. None of my dogs has ever developed any of the core diseases(Lepto is NOT a core disease BTW) not even when Parvo arrived from Australia.

The only disease one of my dogs has contracted( in 60+ years of dog ownership) is CIRP(canine infectious respiratory disease) & he had been given the vaccine before I got him. Despite being in close contact with my other dogs they never developed even mild symptoms.

I focus on keeping my dogs immune systems strong & their very occasional titre tests show that so called"boosters" are not required.

I gotten  all my puppies kennel cough vaccinated. Despite the name about 50% of dogs get it from a kennel environment, the rest is from close contact with other dogs outside of a kennel, local parks, vet visits ext.

Kennel cough is worse in puppies than adults. My Friend's dog caught it from another dog in the local woodland, definitely didn't look pleasant.

Kennel cough is not one I would do. It is a very unpleasant vaccine to receive - a squirt up the nose - just think of spray collars used as aversives.

Then, it is not effective except against very few strands of KC.

KC is not life threatening unless a dog is very ill or old or young. And really, I think the fewer vaccinations we need to give the better. Every one we give affects the immune system and risks over-sensitising it - and then we wonder at the incidence of cancer and other autoimmune diseases....

So really, it's not one I would give unless I had to in order to leave a dog in kennels.

Give vaccines for life-threatening diseases, and only when they are effective vaccines and where you believe the risk of having the vaccine and the adjuvents added to it, is outweighed by the risk of the dog getting the disease. Then make sure you are not over-vaccinating or vaccinating more frequently than you need to.

>None of my dogs has ever developed any of the core diseases(Lepto is NOT a core disease BTW) not even when Parvo arrived from Australia.

You will need to get the BSAVA to amend their website where they state "Dogs
Core vaccines in the UK
Canine Distemper Virus, Canine Adenovirus/Infectious Canine Hepatitis, Canine Parvovirus, Leptospirosis." (My bold.)

And parvo from Australia? Really? Most sources suggest it developed in Europe and spread worldwide. I'd love to see your sources for this other info.

From published back in the early stages of Parvo the first cases were found in dogs in Australia in the 1970s so not on the Internet. The disease spread to Europe & eventually the UK. The UK veterinary world only became aware around 6 months after the first cases in Europe were seen.

Interesting a world famous UK dog show judge was in the exact areas that Parvo spread from & to at the same time, in fact the disease followed this judge & some of the first cases were seen in show dogs. Nothing could be proved of course as scientific evidence was ever sort.

I would suggest you Google Dr Jean Dodds rather than the BVA as a source. She has over 50 years of expertise in vaccination protocols

> I would suggest you Google Dr Jean Dodds

Yikes that brings up the greyhound rescue expose Ok, Peta not the most reliable source but the video speaks for itself, nice to have a steady source of research material, not to mention income for Dodds!

Ann R Smith:> the first cases were found in dogs in Australia in the 1970s so not on the Internet.

Myself and others offer posts with experience gained as dog owners/breeders/individuals involved in veterinary practice.
Seems no one can question your knowledge which is to be admired and I cannot comment for all but personally historical events
have no bearing on what as a Breeder etc we deal with now or indeed decisions we make with current issues on a practical level.
We can only work with the information/tools we have now Discussion isn't competitive. OIMO.

>I would suggest you Google Dr Jean Dodds rather than the BVA as a source.

I didn't cite the BVA. I cited the BSAVA. I would suggest you also have a read of the Veterinary Medicines Directorate which also includes Leptospirosis as a core vaccine in the UK.

>From published back in the early stages of Parvo the first cases were found in dogs in Australia in the 1970s so not on the Internet.

There is any amount of information on the internet that was originally published before the internet was invented, such as facsimile historical documents about the Great Fire of London. There must surely be evidence somewhere of the source of parvovirus.

PETA are a recognised terrorist organisation by the USA & UN due to their involvement with dog theft & violent actions. Anything sourced from PETA is tainted & are you aware that 90% of the animal's that sadly end up with them are killed by their non veterinary operatives, illegally using prescription only drugs?

Lepto vaccines kill dogs, autopsies on dogs that have died within hours of receiving these vaccines have proved Lepto linked vaccinosis as a cause of death. The class action being taken against the manufacturers has thousands of proven case studies.

Why do you think the manufacturers have paid out thousands in veterinary treatment fees to owners if dogs that have suffered vaccinosis??

Apologies for incorrectly spelling BSAVA damn autocorrect

> PETA are a recognised terrorist organisation

Oh I absolutely agree, they are awful and I don't support them at all, which is why I said about them not being the most reliable source, however even on the video by dodds herself she doesn't really dispute much of what peta says, horrific way to treat any dog, and not really rescuing them There is a huge outcry about bear bile farms, horse urine farms, should greyhound blood farms be different?

Whatever Jean Dodds (or your vet) does or doesn't say, it still undeniable that leptospirosis is officially a core vaccine in the UK. Whether you choose to give it or not is an entirely different matter.

Chaumsong:> they are awful and I don't support them at all

I totally agree that the wider picture on all aspects posted should be considered but I have to ask if this debate is anything to do with
a Puppy's First Year of Veterinary Visits. (question raised by OP)Historical knowledge is so relevant but as previously commented, the
forum is not 'University Challenge' on line...it's an advice site for dog owners!

> If you're in the UK, a puppy course of immunisation is only 2 injections, 2 to 4 weeks apart, depending on whether Lepto2 or Lepto4 is given.

Pod had 3 visits.  The first for core + L4, the second for core so I could get on with socialising him a week later, then the third for the second lepto shot.

Nikita: 
Well said:  It's what we are advised now and yes L2 allows socialising earlier but L4 gives the new owner more room to manoever
if their Puppy is travelling a distance to their new home.  1st Vac gives 75% cover - 2nd Vac gives that additional 25% but
at least the 1st vac will enable the Puppy to get outside on an uncontaminated area

I've got to say sometimes I think we confuse more people than we help. Because the OP probably just wanted a simple run down of what to expect and we have bedazzled them with complex debates...

It's important to separate out WHAT IS USUALLY DONE BY DEFAULT and all the special requests and things some of us may do or not do. 

In the UK, it is common for puppies to get 2 vaccinations. Usually at 8 weeks when they go to their new homes and then again at either 10wks or 12wks, depending on the brand of vaccine and whether it is L2 or L4 which the vet uses.

The vaccinations will usually be DHP and also L2 or L4 dependent on what the vet uses. This is distemper, hepatitis, and parvovirus and then lepto 2 or lepto 4. Sometimes the DHP vaccine is DHPPi (with parainfluenza too).

So, if you don't do any research and take your pup to the vet in the UK, that's what will happen. Many of us do research and decide to do things differently and request these different things of our vets.

And yes, lepto is sadly a core vaccine in the UK. That doesn't elevate it to some kind of 'essential' status though, it just means it is given by default to pups and that owners don't opt into it - they need to opt out from it if they don't want it. This is not the case in North America, where it is not a core vaccine and is not given to pups unless an owner specifically requests it.

> Well said:  It's what we are advised now and yes L2 allows socialising earlier but L4 gives the new owner more room to manoever

Sorry, I perhaps should mention that the vet wasn't thrilled with me socialising before he'd had the second L4!  But he's a malinois, and he's a cautious soul, and I wasn't prepared to wait an extra two weeks just for that.

Because of covid they've actually changed their system so now it's two visits (for fewer face to face appointments), four weeks apart but I pushed for the three for the socialisation angle.  Thankfully the vet that dealt with Pod is familiar with malis and agreed that I could do the usual way, providing I avoided standing or stagnant water until he was done.

I don't walk near either with my dogs so it wasn't an issue.