I recently adopted a2 year old female gsp. She hasn’t been spayed. The previous owner was vague about when she had her last season. She thinks it was last mid July.. ... I’m wondering whether to wait for her next season and then get her spayed or get her spayed around now to avoid all the trauma of the heat! 21 days at least trying to keep an active gsp on a lead in a secluded spot being just one of the problems. This is my 3 rd female gsp so I’m aware of the consequences. They we’re both spayed after their 1st season at about 16 months old. Thanks.

Research shows there are many benefits to a dog remaining intact wherever possible. The main risk for intact bitches is pyometra, but that really isn't a great risk until the dog gets much older - definitely not at 2yo.

There is more research and evidence here: https://www.avidog.com/research-on-the-effects-of-spaying-and-neutering/

I've owned only intact bitches for about 15 years now, active gundog breeds. And they are walked off leash with an excellent recall when in season. I walk in locations I don't run into other people and I've never had even a close encounter even though I live in a densely populated area when it comes to dog ownership and even though some of them have been bred from and know what it's all about... For me, being able to exercise them is worth it and if the worst case scenario did happen, there's always Alizin. (Morning after jab.)

An interesting perspective on dog guardianship: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/opinion/dogs-spaying-neutering.html?fbclid=IwAR3WF3qUevGmWy4J69SP6cHC85HfjuP8BsGJqXOCTR73zNYn1T6U6yg-6Os

Even if you still want to spay her after reading all that, you can't time it correctly unless you know accurately not only when her last heat was but the one before that, so you can time the spay for midway between heats.

Thank you very much for all that info. I shall read it at my leisure.

Just add my fcr had very few seasons over her nearly 6 years. I had decided to leave her entire fpr her health as kong as possible. She was never bred from nor did I want too
.I had no idea when she was next due as the previous one was a couple of years previous.
Explained all this to the vet who although mindful of an extra difficulties happily spayed her with no trouble.

I have a 6yo (nearly 7yo) intact female at the moment and I'm starting to debate whether I should just leave her intact and treat any issues as and if they arise.

I mean, if you think about it, women get all kinds of gynae issues especially as they age, but we don't preventatively give all women a ovario-hysterectomy at age 50. We wait to see if something occurs which warrants it. But then I do think that surgery on an elderly/frail dog would be tough. I have friends with dogs that have been left intact into old age and lived long and healthy lives though, so it is tempting to try that route.

Thank you for your input.

Yes I understand how you feel. Coco has a few itchy skin issues at the moment which I am dealing with...but she is so lively and looks healthy and as we’re in this lockdown situ at the moment, the reasons for spaying seem rather remote! Thanks for your time and opinions though.

> The main risk for intact bitches is pyometra, but that really isn't a great risk until the dog gets much older - definitely not at 2yo.

I know two bitches who had to have emergency spays because of pyometra at young ages, one a whippet after her second season at 14 months and the other a lab at 18 months.

The longer you leave her entire the greater the risk of mammary tumours too.

Just balancing out the discussion

chaumsong, the latter isn't true at all.

The information put about mammary tumours is a myth and the research which started it all off was very flawed, as Avidog point out:

"One important note: there are now several recent (2020) publications that show that mammary cancer rates, though higher in intact bitches, fall far, far short of the 25% threatened by many vets. Ben and Lynnette Hart’s 2020 paper show it to be highly variable but usually less than 6%. For example, intact Australian Cattle Dogs had no cases of mammary cancer while 8% of bitches spayed between 2 and 8 years had mammary cancer. In beagles and Bernese Mountain Dogs, no spayed or intact bitches had mammary cancer.
In comparison, rates of other cancers, such as hemangiosarcoma and mast cell tumors, were increased in some breeds like golden retrievers up to 17%, in Irish Wolfhounds to 25%! Owners must consider that spaying (and neutering) may increase the risk of untreatable cancers"

This is the paper which debunks the myth that spaying prevents mammary tumours: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225080364_The_effect_of_neutering_on_the_risk_of_mammary_tumours_in_dogs_-_a_systematic_review

Quote: "This review concludes that, "due to the limited evidence available and the risk of bias in the 1969 study, any evidence that neutering reduces the risk of mammary cancer and that age at neutering has an effect on it, is judged to be weak and not a sound basis for firm recommendations on neutering."

This is the paper, from 1969, which is criticised above and debunked: https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article-abstract/43/6/1249/910225?fbclid=IwAR0bHB0ENPq4JITkzIe81evUKAQde-HgDVNgu_i_8FRDe7cSgzZR7h1Pn-o

Unfortunately this is one which people read or are told and then pass on to others, and no one really looks directly at the research and evidence behind it.

> there are now several recent (2020) publications that show that mammary cancer rates, though higher in intact bitches

So spaying decreases the risk, that's what I said

As for pyometra (putting this in a separate post for clarity) - it's important not to draw conclusions from the one/two/three dogs you happen to know or have owned etc who have developed anything - because that's anecdotal. Unless you look at the statistics across a much larger sample of the population, it's not possible to draw accurate conclusions.

Left unspayed into old age, 25% of bitches will get pyo - yet in this study only 1% of bitches who got pyo, died of it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3892096/?fbclid=IwAR3NnbXCNFY3vJINNNngZqdydzzveG0wXW-V9jpt45JjpazRGNsYwbphbto The rest were treated and recovered: "In bitches with the disease that were surgically treated, a mortality rate as low as 1% was recorded (Jitpean, Ström‐Holst et al., 2014). The prognosis is thus surprisingly favourable considering the severity of the disease and that it affects middle‐aged to older individuals with increased probability of suffering from concurrent diseases (Fransson et al., 2004)."

chaumsong, no you need to read the literature in full. It only decreases the risk (even taking into consideration those researchers who continue to believe it has an effect) if a bitch is spayed before any heat cycles or after just one heat cycle. Bitches which are spayed after that don't benefit any more than a bitch spayed many years later. A 2yo GSP is going to have had more than one heat cycle in all likelihood. So there's not much benefit at all, whatever research you read.

Secondly, if you read the literature review I posted (and don't just jump on 3 words I copied and pasted here), you'll see that the tumours which unspayed bitches get are typically benign. The tumours which spayed bitches get, are typically cancerous and malignant. It's all very well to say 'spaying reduces the risk of mammary tumours', but if the mammary tumours a dog might still get are statistically going to be malignant as compared to those they might have gotten if they'd remained intact, things are not so clear.

I'd really encourage people not to just perpetuate myths and boil everything down to the simplest common denominator but to spend time reading the research in the first place so they can make educated decisions for their dogs.

I'm just saying that in my experience, over 50 years with multiple dog households and always surrounded by friends with multidog households, bitches spayed as adults, after 1 or 2 seasons haven't had any mammary tumours, ones left till later have, and yes they were malignant and had spread.

Also your own study says 1 in 4 intact bitches will get pyo, they may not die but they will probably need an emergency spay, I'd rather have an elective spay on a healthy bitch at a time I choose.

Most of our bitches weren't spayed until they were retired.   However there is enough evidence to persuade me that the later a bitch is spayed, the greater the risk of a female-related cancer.   Having said that, we only had one with mammary cancer (and her's was certainly cancerous) when she was in her 13th year, of our later-spayed girls.   I spayed mine when retired so I avoided any further need to confine them for 3 weeks, roughly twice a year.   We never had a pyo.

It's up to the individual but keeping a small show/breeding kennel, once mine reached retirement, it was kinder to my entire males to reduce the number of entire bitches under the same roof.

If you are not intending to breed, why not get her spayed now - she's old enough to avoid any problems with growth plate issues.   You can still show a spayed bitch (UK).

I always spay my girls after their last litter so not before 5 1/2 to 7 1/2 years.

The risks of Pyometra are highest in middle age and older bitches, especially those never bred from.

By this age they have gained any benefits from being as nature intended, and spaying while fit and well rather than ill and elderly is more likely to have the mostb positive outcome.

Also many older entire bitches have low level undiagnosed issues, and noticebly have improved health post spay.

Here is the paper about neutering and mammary cancer and the increased risk of aggressive cancers in dogs who are neutered - quote - "While it's clear that spaying dogs greatly minimizes their risk of developing mammary cancer, the findings suggest that the practice may increase the risk of more aggressive cancers. And in spayed animals with mammary tumors, the team found that higher serum estrogen levels were actually protective, associated with longer times to metastasis and improved survival times."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191101183437.htm?fbclid=IwAR0O_aM9t5VyttapfDKbNXJ1tCJk5fRhvULSeKDWL436U9xOCgX1iqzwYV0

The actual paper: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0224504&fbclid=IwAR3HwU-SFq0XuiODL_NHDNx2XdXO8n_mmi8mEiVAZj1WCX0phJrR-jLhhKU

All accounts of 'I've owned X dogs and this is what happened with these' is just anecdotal as said above. Science needs to look at greater numbers to be reliable, not just anecdotal evidence.

I don't quite agree with the thinking that there's no benefit to leaving them intact.

A lot of the research indicates that there are many benefits for them remaining intact into old age. For example, the risk of canine dementia is much lower in intact bitches than neutered... hormones have a protective effect over the brain and mental decline.

Spatial awareness is also affected through neutering... Here are the papers - obviously a lot more research needs to be done, but this is what they are pointing at:

Spayed female dogs may have reduced communication skills: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/canine-corner/201902/spayed-female-dogs-may-have-reduced-communication-skills?fbclid=IwAR0aYa8pBqQdqj3LA9vZLBQF_lxXjn8_JHVDIqtOjIWiGC0tvrbcUb83Ils#_=_

Impact of neutering on cognitive impairment in dogs: https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/resources/javma_219_1_51.pdf

The role of the uterus in memory (removing the uterus from rats severely affected their ability to navigate a maze): https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/rat-study-points-to-role-of-uterus-in-memory-65188?fbclid=IwAR2RhbLXQr1SwCI52jeoYpygA9b4MAQ-KkDbvoN_abzwWSbcvf7LxMrglCw

Only intact dogs who received oxytocin exhibited gazing behaviour with their owners - oxytocin is the "love" and bonding hormone: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376635720300863?fbclid=IwAR2t0CqduKhlp3Ifw3bHPu1qX1jsNX-wVXIgELy00psVX4E24QHFnQX03Ds

I think there's more than enough evidence out there to support the approach of leaving a dog intact until and unless they develop problems that need treatment, as is done in Scandinavia.

The OP wishes to spay her dog. The rights and wrongs of spaying were not the question.

If she were mine & I wanted to spay I would wait till she has a season and get her done about 2 1/2 months after the season. You will be certain then of doing her in the right point of her cycle.    To be honest with the covid situation vets are still a bit chaotic at the moment so probably better not doing right now any way.

Apologies - I didn't address the 'when' in terms of OP's bitch.   Obviously the best time is mid-way between seasons but if you don't know for sure when she was last in and can only assume it was back in July, with my vet's thoughts, I think I'd wait, let her have her next season (provided you can be absolutely certain she's kept safe) and then after another couple of months, book her spay.   But as said, getting this done may prove difficult with the current Covid 19 situation.   Again, consult your vet.

You're absolutely right Weimed

Rescues spay bitches as soon as they are handed in, not knowing where they are in their cycle and while this may not be the gold standard ideal it doesn't seem to do any harm, so if it's going to be a major problem letting her have a season I would just do it now, if your vet is doing spays at the moment.

I have a rescue GWP bitch who I had spayed at 3 years old (mid season) and she has severe spay incontinence which started more or less straight after her op, wish I’d never had it done.

> I have a rescue GWP bitch who I had spayed at 3 years old (mid season) and she has severe spay incontinence which started more or less straight after her op

Interesting that because my vet at the time cited the possibility of spay incontinence (admittedly later on) if he spayed my Whippet at 6 months - together with potential bone growth problems.  Too bad to end up with that.

I also had a dog that got spay induced incontinence. Incurin didn't work for her and she needed propalin. It didn't come on immediately though, she was spayed about 3yo and very occasionally had leakages but not frequently enough to need meds - she probably got it on a daily basis at about 6-8yo, perhaps the bladder muscles weaken more as the dog gets older.

Every dog I own, I spay later and later it seems. She was spayed at 3yo. The next dog I spayed at 6yo. I now have an intact female who's nearly 7yo and I won't consider spaying her until 8yo but I might just leave her intact and deal with things as they occur...

My girl has spay incontinence. It is hard to say when it started as she was almost six and recently spayed when she came to us. As she had never been housetrained, it took a while to realise that her lapses were not just accidents. Propalin has worked very well for her, she is almost 15k and we have tapered the dose down to just 0.5ml at bedtime - but we do let her nip out for a quick wee at 3.30am. It only takes seconds, and we are at the age when we often have the urge ourselves so it is no hardship. Incurin made her much worse - we never finished the first packet and our vet was considering the 'tack it' operation, However, we have a friend in a different breed who has used Incurin without problems for several years.