Can the breeder withheld papers after 5 months and ask for an extra £2000 before they give you them

It only costs around £17 to register a puppy.

There have been recent computer issues at the Kennel Club due to new computer system with hold ups since August, but most breeders will have had acknowledgement that their registration application has been received or even completed, but the delay is in getting the papereork sent out.

So the breeder can send you this as proof.

Sadly chances are your pup is unregisterable, and the breeder was counting on you not being worried about official paperwork once you bonded with your pup, and would give up on the papers.

The reasons could be any of the following:

The parents are not registered

The mother/Father does not belong to the breeder/stud owner (possibly even stolen)

One or both parents have breeding restrictions (progeny not elligible for registration) placed on their papers by their breeders.

The bitch was under a year, at mating or over 8 at whelping.

The bitch had already had 4 registered.litters.

The bitch had already had 2 previous litters by C.section.

These are all bad practices, and a reason to ensure any purebred puppy is at least registered.

Without registration you cannot confirm anything much about the ancestry.

I am not even going to comment on the ridiculously high price you have paid.

As in my breed £900 plus would be a normal price from a reputable breeder, though during Covid with having to pay for couriers to deliver pups during lockdown the highest price was £1400.

On this site you can search for your breed, and there is an average advertised puppy price year by year at the bottom of the page.

Of course they can 'ask' but whether you pay for the paperwork is quite another matter!!    I would say that most of my puppy buyers, who were given all the paperwork involved when the full purchase price was given, including my signature to the transfer of ownership application form, didn't bother to change the ownership with the KC from me to them.

This individual is involved in a scam and frankly should be reported.

Sounds like the breeders out to make some extra money from you.

Did the advert say the pup would come with kc reg?
If it did u could threaten with training standards and see if that would get them to send them, or they may turn around and say being pup back for a refund knowing that most won't want to do that.

I have heard of some breeders charging more for 'show/breeding potential' puppies than 'pet' puppies they then keep the kc reg to prevent breeding, showing, competing of the 'pet ' price puppies, and If an owner changes their mind later they want them to pay the difference before sending the kc reg. This should have been explained before purchase though.

A practice I don't agree with personally.

Tracei:  Pedigree papers being witheld:
This is disgusting!  I've come across the practice of witholding papers with the intention of stopping Breeding at show level but that was many years ago and I believed that endorsing had replaced this.
I'm not sure how much the Kennel Club could help due to Data Protection but if your Puppy is microchipped and the Breeder has changed owner details into your name, Petlog or one of the nation microchip databases may show the KC Reg No. on their site or give you that information if they have you registered as the owner. (if indeed your dog has a KC Registration).
I wouldn't be paying extra as a matter of principal and would report the Breeder to site that advertised the Litter and/or Kennel Club depending on your findings.  Good Luck!

Tracei:  Pedigree papers being witheld:
This is disgusting!  I've come across the practice of witholding papers with the intention of stopping Breeding at show level but that was many years ago and I believed that endorsing had replaced this.
I'm not sure how much the Kennel Club could help due to Data Protection but if your Puppy is microchipped and the Breeder has changed owner details into your name, Petlog or one of the nation microchip databases may show the KC Reg No. on their site or give you that information if they have you registered as the owner. (if indeed your dog has a KC Registration).
I wouldn't be paying extra as a matter of principal and would report the Breeder to site that advertised the Litter and/or Kennel Club depending on your findings.  Good Luck!

As someone else pointed out if pups advertised as Kennel Club registered, or you have anything from breeder confirming they would be registered, then you could go to Trading Standards.

Tracei: do you know the KC names of the parents? If so you can check on the KC website to see if the litter was registered.
If it was registered, you can contact the KC and explain the situation.
If it was not registered, and you have paperwork (even a copy of the advert) stating that the pups were KC registered, you can contact trading standards.

>If so you can check on the KC website to see if the litter was registered.

Tracei, I was going to suggest this myself. If you don't have an account with the KC (it's free to do but the new website is a complete nightmare to navigate) you could pm one of us with the pedigree name of your pup (you have been given a pedigree, yes?) and we could check for you to see if the litter was ever registered.

But no; £2000 is totally out of order to obtain KC registration; it should be included in the price of the puppy. No good breeder charges more for registered pups, and they register every pup in their litters.

This person says they have already paid £4000 for this Bulldog puppy.

On the breed page of this site:
Historical Average Puppy Prices
Year  Average Price(£)
2002  1000
2003  1500
2004  1833
2005  1817
2006  1784
2007  1851
2008  1664
2009  1676
2010  1696
2011  1752
2012  1808
2013  1897
2014  1920
2015  1995
2016  2039
2017  1981
2018  1887
2019  1890

I always thought the average price for a well bred Bulldog from health tested parents was between £2k - £2.5k.
There were many greeders selling the breed in rainbow non recognised colours for way more and many of these claimed to be kennel registered but these are with some Mickey Mouse Registry and not the KC itself.

I would be getting the advert and confirm it does say they will be kennel club registered and all correspondence and ping it across to trading standards and also alert the council(licensing dept) this breeder is in as they might need to be aware to of poor practices

Maybe HMRC as well

Suejaw:  Agree.  My Niece is a Breeder of Bulldogs in Scotland. £2100 has been the asking price from reputable Breeders since her last litter in November 2019. This has now risen to £3.5 - £4K.
I have had promotional e-mails from the 'micky mouse' registry company you have mentioned and with the detail they included in these promo emails it would seem they have access to the KC database or at least basic info on KC Breeders.
The advice re reporting to Council Licensing is spot on and they will react as they did with a breeder in Camarthen just 40 miles from here and closed them down immediatey.  (sadly they are still Breeding just on the black market but illegaly).
Another Poster suggested reporting them to HMRC - again wholly relevant however, HMRC have so many other cases to investigate, I doubt unless they make Tax Returns as a business, a much needed visit to the premises will be a long way off.  Sad but true.

Sounds like the puppy was never registered and cannot be registered thus mad price given as no one would pay £2000 for papers.

>with the detail they included in these promo emails it would seem they have access to the KC database or at least basic info on KC Breeders.

Everybody has access to a lot of the KC information on their website - and indeed information is freely available on the Champdogs breeder pages, including pedigrees - so getting hold of details is child's play.