**LONG TERM LURKER, FIRST TIME POSTER*

I have a miniature breed, my little bitch was mated and tied successfully three times to a proven stud dog (Days 10, 12 and 14). I looked at swabs under the microscope and thought maybe she was a little early on the first mating but she allowed it and was definitely in at least transition of proestrus to oestrus. She had an ultrasound at 4 weeks where the vet wouldn't tell me how many but did say "a good sized litter" I thought I could see 4 or 5, at one point i'm sure i could see 3 in the one frame. I though it looked like 2 up one horn and 3 up the other. This is my first litter so I am definitely not an expert or experienced!

Today will be 65 days from first mating, 63 days from second and 61 from third mating.

I've had her at the vet Monday, yesterday (Wed) and today (Thursday). Her milk is down but her cervix is closed and she's shown no sign of agitation/nesting etc. Still bringing me a ball in the morning, and no real change in behaviour. The only outward sign is she is refusing to eat, her appetite has been in decline since week 4 - I've been cooking mince (Beef, vension, turkey) and tried fish, roast chicken, porridge, fruit and veggies. She would happily eat little bits of chicken, blueberries and banana until this week. This week I've been giving her cheese as I'm worried about her calcium levels. She has been taking bites throughout the day but she's feeding them off her own back now, as her intake has just reduced to below enough to sustain herself never-mind puppies.

Her temp. has been up and down but around 37.5 for the last 3/4 days. Today the vet performed an ultrasound and could see two puppies which are not in distress. Going for a progesterone test tomorrow.

Do you think I am best to ask for a c-section tomorrow or give her at least one more night to see if she can do it herself? It's her first litter, she's just turned 3 always been in good condition but I am a little worried about her energy and calcium levels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I know it's not the 'modern' way of doing things, and that conception may not take place from the first mating (or even days after the first mating) but I tend to count from the first mating and then allow 2 days over if nothing has happened.  THEN and only then, did I involve my vet - too much stress on pregnant mum plus the risk of infection to take her in.   No way would I go for an elected C.Section.   I only went down that road, plus my vets advice if mum was having strong contractions but getting nowhere in about 1 houirs - each delivery.   There's no point leaving her to struggle, becoming exhausted, if she is going to need surgery.  Without knowing what breed because obviously some don't deliver naturally.

She may not be very interested in food because she doesn't have much room for food now - concentrate on protein, not bulk!   Thed puppies will take all they need and once you have the litter on the ground and see how many she has to cater for, then is the time to up the food intake - and probably not really until the end of the first week.   Newborn puppies don't need that much milk and if she does produce lashings, she may run the risk of mastitis.   Just like us, a pregnant bitch shouldn't become 'fat'.

Temperature - I never bothered too much with what that said - and for sure, while it's still fluctuating, she's not going to whelp any time soon.... it's when it goes right down, and stays down, that whelping should begin within 24 -48 hours ... by which time she'll be nesting etc too.

Some people here say yes to extra calcium.   However, even with a big boned breed (I go by breeding, not feeding, for bone) I have never regularly given extra calcium (and I come from the generation who used 'Stress' ) other than the one time I did have one going into eclampsia.   Provided the bitch has been fed a good quality food, before mating even, she would be fine.   But again the number of puppies could need to be taken into consideration.  We gave our puppies cottage cheese on weaning, so mum had some of that too

Good luck - the waiting was always the most stressful part of this experience, for me.

If the Progesterone has dropped to show that she should be delivering then yes.

Thanks :) A lot to digest! I always wanted her to go naturally, her mother needed two emergency sections and so it's been playing on my mind but i know that every bitch and every labour is different!

She's a miniature hound , but substantial for the breed. The food she's been on is a good quality food and high in protein, switched to the puppy version around 5/6 weeks.

We have cottage cheese on advice from the vet! She won't touch it just now but have another one for once puppies are here.

So stressful but great to have other people's experiences/ thoughts!

They didn't have the correct materials for running the test today which isn't great but will have it tomorrow. They said sending off a sample was possible but wouldn't get the results until tonight, vet said we'd be as well waiting til tomorrow.

Think that will provide the vital info we need to make a decision, like you say.

Thanks :) Now to nervously wait it out!

> This week I've been giving her cheese as I'm worried about her calcium levels.

Please please don't give a bitch any additional calcium during pregnancy. It can predispose her to eclampsia which is life-threatening and an emergency. After just one pup is out, give as much calcium and cheese or whatever as you like - it is very helpful then - but not during pregnancy. If your vet advised this, you should know that most vets know nothing about reproduction other than how to actually do a c-section. So it is on you to learn all you can and know when to ask that of your vet...

If you had 3 successful breedings and did no progesterone, then you have a very wide whelping window. (Bitches don't have 'due dates', they have whelping windows.)

You should go to the vet for a check up on day 65 from ovulation if you have no puppies - but you don't know when ovulation is, and it sounds like your first mating was a bit early so I think you can assume it probably hadn't happened then.

If you are going by breedings, you should go to the vet on day 72 after the first breeding - although this guideline is inevitably less precise. I think you can wait longer. With more than one pup in the litter, inertia is less of a risk...

Don't give extra calcium before they are born, thats needed once she has whelped the 1st puppy.
Vanilla ice cream is often very good if you don't have the liquid calcium too

Juist to clarify - I didn't suggest the cottage cheese before whelping .... and in fact as said, my bitches would usually only get any when she cleaned up after the puppies had finished!!   We never gave extra calcium during pregnancy, and only when needed after whelping.   As said, with my heavy boned breed, we bred for bone, we didn't necessarily feed for bone - just to enhance what should have already been there, from the correct mating combination!