We were really pleased when our three-month old Lab started sleeping through the night recently. He'd 'fluked' it a couple of times before, but he went for a full week sleeping solidly from 10:30 until about 6:30 without any complaint (or any accidents). He's now started waking up in the night again. Most of the time he doesn't seem especially desperate to go to the loo when we drag ourselves outside at 3am. Last night, he ignored the door to the garden completely and jumped onto the sofa when I let him out the crate (during the day he will now wait at the door if he needs to go out).

So far we've gone for a 'puppy-led' approach to nighttimes, putting him in his crate and coming downstairs to take him outside as and when he cries. Given he's now demonstrated repeatedly that he can sleep through the night, I was wondering if we should be a bit stricter - either refusing to come down until his normal wake up time or perhaps waiting for a period of time after he wakes up before taking him out?

With .one if they work early morni g I would.come down and take them outside and stand and do the I am boring bit  . If they clearly weren't interested in doing anything  I would return them to their crate amd hopefully they would settle
However if they were waking nearer a normal.time I would.take them out and then start my day early. Not playing or feeding or  being interesting for pup until a more normal.time .
Slowly life improved some faster than others .
I do admit that current now 9 year old was much better once she was in the room with me and would.settle better after waking.

I think he's learnt that he cries, you come, he's playing you.   And it's a fine balance between ignoring him, and giving him the benefit of the doubt (he really needs out!).   My Basset tended to wake up 'too early'.   When he came to us at 4 months, initially I'd get up and take him out during the night until I found out whether he could hold right through from around 11 pm, to hopefully 7 am.   Clearly he could hold.   It was especially bad during the summer months, when the birds sing at stupid o'clock.  During the dark winter months, he should have been better, but no, he still thought we should be up.  My Whippet on the other hand, would sleep on in her crate despite what he was doing, or wanting.  

Best you can do maybe is wait a bit despite the cries, but then start your day earlier.   With our gang, there was never any 'sleeping in'.   We were always up with the lark (or the farmers!!).    Or try getting up an hour or so before he starts up and take him out but then back to his crate?   At least that way you'll KNOW he isn't crying to be taken out!

I'd get up, but be really boring, don't even put the light on in the room he is in.

No eye contact just take him outside, no talking other than toiletting command.

Then back to bed.

Last night was interesting. He woke at about 5am, but just as I was about to get out of bed there was a torrential downpour and he went quiet (he's not daft, I genuinely think he heard the rain and thought better of it!) Then he woke at about 6:15. I nipped to the loo before I was going to head downstairs and once again he went quiet. He was perfectly content by the time I finally came down at 7am.

I wouldn't leave him to howl for ages, but this reinforced the suspicion that he doesn't actually need to go out most nights. Might make it a policy of leaving it for a few minutes before I get up in future.

I think it might be a kind of separation anxiety.

A couple of nights ago, he started crying at about 4:30. It was a gentle whine, so I left it for a few minutes to see if he would stop. He didn't, so I went downstairs and let him out - no playing, no cuddles, just out for a wee and straight back in. He went into the crate happily enough, but by the time I'd reached the top of the stairs he was howling a lot more determinedly than he was before I got up. More recently, we've toughened our stance a little and left him in the crate until about 6:30. Since then the gentle whimpering has started around the same time and continued on and off until we get up, sometime between 6 and 7. He's always happy when he gets out and doesn't seem to be in desperate need of a wee or anything, so I don't think it's a physical need that's causing him to get up so early.

We both work from home, so there is someone downstairs in the house almost permanently during the day. We do try to invent reasons to go out and give him some brief periods of alone time, like going out for a walk for 15 minutes (still waiting for the final vaccination so he can't join us). Also trying to put him in the crate occasionally during the day - particularly when he's likely to nap.

Any other tips?

Tor:  Puppy Sleep Regression:   I have to agree that I think it could be separaration anxiety but I haven't experienced it at you little ones age during the night.  There is the old saying:  you have to 'be cruel to be kind'.  Have you considered setting a time - say 3am night one then 4am night five and so on to get HIM up. no interaction. let him wee and then back in cage.  You then have control back (he will proably whine for a little while again) but I'm convinced after 2 weeks of this, he will be able to go all night without needing out so be able to sleep through if left alone. Day separation anxiety was solved when that 2nd jab had been adminstered.and he was allowed to join in & excercise. He was so tired by nap times that he was glad to cuddle up with any garment that smelled of me Good Luck X.

> I have to agree that I think it could be separaration anxiety but I haven't experienced it at you little ones age during the night.  There is the old saying:  you have to 'be cruel to be kind'.  Have you considered setting a time - say 3am night one then 4am night five and so on to get HIM up. no interaction. let him wee and then back in cage.  You then have control back (he will proably whine for a little while again) but I'm convinced after 2 weeks of this, he will be able to go all night without needing out so be able to sleep through if left alone. Day separation anxiety was solved when that 2nd jab had been adminstered.and he was allowed to join in & excercise. He was so tired by nap times that he was glad to cuddle up with any garment that smelled of me Good Luck X.

Thank you.

I did wonder about setting an alarm. The thing is, he routinely goes through the night without any accidents and he doesn't seem desperate to fulfil any 'physical' need (weeing, pooing or drinking) when I do come down and let him out in the morning. He just whines. In fact, when I have caved in and taken him out to wee during the night recently he's complained more about going back in the crate after those needs have been sorted.

He was the last pup to leave the litter. Only by a few days, but I do wonder if that's left him a bit insecure. Trying to make sure we spend more (brief) periods out the house and also give him more crate time when we're around during the day so it won't seem quite so scary when he wakes up in the night.

Tor:  All Concerns re Sleep Don't think the last to leave the Litter has any bearing on this so don't be worrying.  As a baby he's trying to find his ground and crying/whining is just part of the process. It may be that all that love & attention you gave him early on is his 'normality' and being a bit more in control is not being unkind - just setting the rules.  If you try the 3 step approach of deciding when he goes out in the night he will learn that he doesn't go out when he cries on demand (if he has an accident in his crate then just a little clean up in the morning.), and by all means have him in his crate at certain times of the day such as your timeout, your meal times. his nap times etc. You'll get there.  It's trial and error.  Keep the faith

Personally, as I also had children and valued my sleep, I never crated pups at night, and cleaned up any accidents in the morning.

Dogs shut in a room with cleanable floor, in my case kitchen.

Radio left on (always on 24/7 where dogs are).

Brainless: Do you believe in crating?  Just it has been my practice from the beginning & now doubting it. I've always seen it as providing a safe place but happy to take your opinion on board....

To be honest I have always kept a Crate up, rarely closing it.

Primarily I want them used to one for travel, at unbenched shows and when staying away from home.

At home usually most often to shut a pup in for meals, when on multiple meals, or other safety issues.

I am a fan of tall baby gates for doorways for containment.

I keep pups in a puppy pen until 12 weeks.

By then mine have worked out how to move it around the room by folding it off square.

By this age they are respectful enough to be fully integrated with the adults.

I have never had more than 2 stay past this age.

I am not fond of the use of crates for longer periods.

The best reason for crate training is that it’s very likely that a dog will HAVE to be confined out of necessity at some point in their life, such as at the vets, enforced rest after injury or operation, if they stray and are picked up by a dog warden, etc.

These kind of situations are much less stressful for the dog if they already love being in a crate, or at least tolerate it.

Silverleaf79;  Crate Training; That has always been my thinking too but we can all learn so glad to hear other points of view too... thank you,

Brainless: I think the word 'crate' conjures up all sorts of 'imprisonment' pictures sadly.  I've found my guys go in voluntarily at night especially and only feeding times require segragation as food amongst several adult dogs can be frought with out breaks of posession...individual one to one time in view of the group, toys & water bowls can be shared
but food is a no no except for my mother & daughter girls when Mum steps back & Daughter gets priority.

Feeding with mine, dishes would go down about the kitchen 2 - 3 feet apart, with me supervising.

I use crates but have found that it does depend in the dog as to if.they accept using a crate .
My gsd and my chi x happily took to their crates and choose to use them at all.times .
Oddly neither of my flat coats accepted.crates at all and I pretty much gave up very early on. They were too distressed and I couldn't have that so adapted how we did things to keep them safe . I would.still use a crate for.reasons of safety and as silverleaf says emergencies but I do think you have to be mindful of how different dogs react to them .

I have also found that acceptance of crates has been situation dependent.

Never normally shut in at home, but perfectly happy in them away from home and travelling.

Actually thinking about it my fcr is happy in the crate in the car . However that maybe because I am also on the car or at least someone is. Fortunately this hasn't become.separatuin anxiety and can happily be left at.home.for.a.few.hours with no.concerns

> Dogs shut in a room with cleanable floor, in my case kitchen.

Not an option for us, I'm afraid. The only non-carpeted room we have is the kitchen, which is too small.

In fairness, he seems happy enough with the crate in general, and sort of sleeps through the night. Just wakes up too early.

This morning at 5am I 'lost' him in the dark for a second. I thought he'd followed me towards the door, but then realised he was waiting by the baby gate to the kitchen. Where his breakfast comes from (three hours later)...

I think it isn’t recommended to crate dogs with separation anxiety because the confinement can make them worse and they’re more likely to injure themselves, a small room or x-pen is probably better.

Some dogs happily accept crates with no training at all, but others need a long slow process to get used to being shut in.

My River was crates with mum and sibling (later just siblings) before I got him so he didn’t mind confinement, but I played some games with him to make sure. I taught him to get in the crate by himself on cue, always rewarded him when he went inside without me asking and more rewards if he stayed in there. Got him happy being with the door open at first, then I’d shut it and immediately open it again, working up to having it shut for longer and longer periods.

Probably overkill for him, but a dog that isn’t used to crates might require a lot more work. River was good enough that I could shut him in a crate (next to my bed) all night except for toilet breaks) right from the beginning.

My old lab never had a crate but she was super chill and calm and coped with being in a kennel at the vets absolutely fine. River is so much more sensitive and he’d absolutely freak out in a kennel at the vets if he wasn’t crate trained.

He is a clever boy ! Thinks its breakfast time . The change in the hour is also not going to help . Mine still .expects breakfast at last week's time

I use a small pen for River at home during the day, I’m here all the time but he has an hour or two a couple of times a day penned in the kitchen with me in another room so he’s perfectly happy if I leave him if I go out.

He has a crate with a tiny pen attached in my bedroom, enough so he has a choice of whether to sleep in the pen or on the carpet in the pen. Keeps him from chasing the cat around half the night.

At 3 months teething will also be getting going, so pain could be a factor here as well.  So I'd be making sure he's got plenty of access to things to chew during the night if he needs them, and try offering a frozen carrot stick/small carrot when you've let him out to wee to help ease any soreness he might be having as he settles back down.