Hi everyone
I have a litter of 4.5 week old havanese
Mum has not been a good mum so I have hand reared them since 3 weeks of age as mum had medical issues since two weeks

They are all running, playing, eating soaked mushed kibble, drinking water from a water fountain (so they cannot take a bath )
My question is about how much freedom they should have

I have one who seems very smart indeed, and a bit needy.. he has learned if he cries, I attend to him (he is definitely not hungry because the second I pick him up, he stops crying instantly )
I have them in a room off the main living room, which has a large toilet area at the back, then a play /sleep area of about 4m2
Then there is a "pen” from the doorframe out onto the living room
All those areas are covered by vet bed

They all seem to LOVE running around the living room (heated tiles no carpet)
I’m wondering when it’s really ok to start letting them have a bit more freedom outside their room/nest
Is 4 .5 weeks too early for that?

Havanais_eli  Puppy freedom:  Hey stranger!  Delighted they are all in good form after initial concerns!  I allow mine into a penned off area of uncontaminated garden at 5/6 weeks.

You will see a huge change in their behaviour from now until 8 weeks when they will need more independance from each other's space and room to play with toys.  This when socialising is so important and inviting other adults to interact with them as well as any other animals is important. (not in their uncontaminated space) just present.  By 8 to 10 weeks they will become proper hooligans and need lots of one to one time with you.  The little more needy one will have to fir into the pack at this time to learn how to handle life & it is probably just that he or she is a little bit less confident/quieter but as long as they all get some time with you they will all come on in leaps & bounds.

Hey stranger :-)
Yeah they are all doing brilliantly! And developing personalities

They really hate being penned in and all sit at the end of it trying to get out.. Is it ok to let them run around the living room a bit?

Hiya;  Yes of course but be warned there will be poo poos, pee pees & chewed things everywhere you give them access to! Good Luck!

They are all pooing on paper mats! They usually pee on it too but sometimes they don’t quite make it and pee on the vet bed just outside
I will put a pee mat in the living room and only after they have all relieved themselves in the normal toilet place then I thought to just let them play a bit in a bigger space because they are running like crackerjacks!

Mine are out in the garden from 4 weeks as well as the rest of the house. They are toilet trained into artificial grass so I have a couple of trays of that in the house and they always go on the grass outside not the patio. Glad they are doing well.

Oh cool! So I wouldn’t be a bad person to let them roam a bit and explore (provided it’s all safe) they don’t have teeth yet to chew anything anyway but they really do seem to need some exploration

Yes definitely get them out around the house and garden. Gets them used to all the different noises of life in the house and outside. Just make sure they can’t escape the garden! Get some small toys for them as well.

The garden is totally secure, but it’s too big to give them free reign there yet.. I’ll maybe take one of the baby pens out there if it’s nice tomorrow
For the house I have a cute tunnel (for cats really) and tons of toys which they started carrying and playing with
I’ll restrict them to the living room and maybe kitchen but block off the stairs for sure and close all other doors :-)
Thanks for the advice!!

No their telling you they want to explore so let them out the fun will start when it's bedtime and they don't want to go in.

How big is your garden? Mine is quite big and surrounds my house and I don’t restrict them. They don’t go far until they are closer to 7/8 weeks but I am thinking about containing them a little more for my next litter so it’s easier to keep an eye on them!

We have an L-shaped living/kitchen/dining room and they are restricted to there when inside unless they are in the dog room. Hard floors make any accidental mess easier to clean up.

Enjoy them being out and about, you are coming to the most fun time although they can get themselves into mischief easily!

Thé garden is 1,000m2 but the issue is, I secured it for mum and dad. I can’t say for sure I have secured it for small babies (I have a hole in one corner for the cat!) and it is on 3 sides of the house so I would not be sure I can see them all at the same time
Maybe in a few weeks I’ll feel more confident for that, plus the weather isn’t great , but when it’s good I’ll make a big run on the lawn for  them

Ah fair enough probably best to section a bit off for them!

My hardy breed start going outdoors at 4 - 4 1/2 weeks.

From 5 weeks they will spend a large part of the day outside, weather permitting ( but I had a 3 x 2m covered run) as they simply would not stay in their indoor pen, except at night.

I believe many small breeds are mostly reared indoors, with just trips in garden when warm.

Outdoors I would pen them off so adults had peace, but after 6 weeks they could jump the door barrier, and would be free with other dogs.

Ok! I’ll put a big pen outside tomorrow then once it’s warmed up and let them play a bit
They played in the cat tunnel tonight and just loved it! Two fell asleep inside the tunnel it was so exhausting ;-)

Havanais-ely: It will be fun and games - enjoy before they leave for their new homes X

Thanks!.. but only one is going end of November, one more is headed for U.K. so I have to wait till he can have his rabies + 21 days so I’ll have him till early Jan
I’m keeping the 3 girls!

Havanais_eli.  Puppies till January 2021.  Hope Santa brings them lots of toys and you are a brave girl having 3 Puppies at once.  Get your stress pills out hee hee.  It took a lot of work when I had 2 at once but worth it

I’m ready for the chaos! They are such delightful darlings.. I think because I’ve hand reared them for a while now we are already bonded and very much understanding eachother..

XXX

When the weather was kind enough, our puppies used to be able to go outside in a big ex-pen(with some extra panels we had attached) from about 4 weeks.   Because they were BIG even at that age, so I had to carry them out one by one and the racket those left behind made, was horrendous.   I wasn't able to let them all out at the same time because of the adults.   But it improved them no end to be able to run around in fresh air with some sun on their backs.   And it gave me the chance to completely empty the whelping box (which had been extended to 4 X 8 by then) and give it a general clean up.    I had to be sure to bring them indoors once they all got tired and settled down, so they didn't get chilled.   Which is why, other than one litter, we tended to have puppies into the better weather.

No way could I let our puppies have access to anywhere outside their whelping box, indoors.

I never let my pups loise indoors either, other than singly for socialisation in the Evenings, watching Tv on my lap.

I am far too clumsy ( let alone my poor sight) to have pups loose about the house, and not fair on the rest of the dogs.

Well! That was a booboo... I showed them a big fun world running around the ground floor of house, and when they get put back in the pen they scream!!! Literally forever
Should I now only be keeping them in the pen during night time ?!
What did I do wrong

I put them back in their own when they are tired so they go to sleep. I also shut the door on their room and make sure they have toys and chews to play with. They eventually stop whining to come back out if they haven’t already gone to sleep.

I just can’t bear to hear them in distress! I’m a soft touch I know..
So should I only be leaving them in their pen when they are tired/sleeping and the rest of the time exploring (safely!) ??
I know that’s what’s wrong because as soon I take out a screaming pup they go silent and are happy to toddle around, after some minutes they will lay down and start to look sleepy , at which point I put them back
But I don’t want to raise pups who require dark and silence to sleep! That would be terrible for new owners to deal with

>I know that’s what’s wrong because as soon I take out a screaming pup they go silent and are happy to toddle around, after some minutes they will lay down and start to look sleepy , at which point I put them back

Well you are teaching them to scream.

They scream = they get let out to have fun.

What a nightmare for new owners to deal with.

My puppies go into an outside pen during the day and indoor pen at night and they can scream all they like, they're not getting anywhere before it's time...

As onetwothreefour said you have to leave them. They only come out on your terms. I can’t have puppies round my feet all day I have things to do. Outside of the weather is nice, inside if it’s not but not all day. They have to settle in their own pen/room as well. Make sure they have toys and some chews and leav them to it. They will settle if you ignore them. Shut the door so they can’t see you.

When you let them out for awhile give them their food when put back in and hopefully they'll  eat and go to sleep after.
I know it doesn't always work though.

Oh should have warned you. It's amazing what you forget, and what becomes routine.

Freedom is like Pandora's box.

Once they have had access to a new area they really hate it being curtailed.

My second litter when my children were small taught me this lesson.

I had the garden divided by picket fence and gate, so children had a dog (poo) free play area.

When the stud owner came to assess the litter I allowed the pups into this area so she could see their movement better.

Next day they screamed and yelled, digging and chewing at the gate!!!

Yes, you will need to be firm with bedtime routine.

Decide if it is safe and desireable to have pups in so much of the house, bearing in mind housetraining the ones you keep, and the need for segregation from Dad later.

It is much easier to increase freedoms than curtail later.

Thanks brainless, jogold and masajackrussel for your constructive and helpful advice
I’ll push on through today to teach them that the pen is their place and maybe open up a smaller area for play time in a couple of days
I think they’re too small and young to have the run of the whole ground floor, I can quite easily misplace one or two!

They are all pretty good with toilet. Even when they are allowed out in the living room they go back to their room where the toilet is, so their business, drink a little water and then go back out to play