I no longer enjoy my walks with my dog because i am frightened.  I have an 18 months old cocker and when he was 6 months old, he met this young blue staffie (very solid) off lead and the owner dawdling way behind on her phone. The dog threw my little one on the ground after standing over him, his head across his body showing dominance.
She came up and said he just wanted to play but it had made my dog cry out and he was frightened of it and I know when a dog is not playing.
This happened again when we met on a field  and I hauled it off my dog because it was snarling and I could feel its teeth on my hands.  As it has got more mature, it has got worse.
I was walking with a friend and we saw the dog coming so I jumped on a bench while my friend yelled at the owner to come and get her dog.  When she told it should be on a lead or muzzled, her reply was unrepeatable.   We managed to stop the dog getting at mine but it was hell bent on trying to get him. And because she threatened us, we did report it.  All I can say is that the police were useless, basically saying it has to bite me or my dog before action can be taken...and telling me to change my walk. They did go round to see her and advised it should be muzzled and kept on the lead but she takes no notice of authority and they told me that was just advice, not an order. Then I met the dog again(off lead again)...and I had changed my walk.  She managed to grab its harness as I fell down a slope with my dog on top of me!  The other day we met again, she saw me coming and quickly put the dog on a lead but it was throwing itself against the lead to try and get at us. I have never been so terrified..she had absolutely no control over it and the dog was showing such aggression.I just thank God my little granddaughter was not with me because she would have been terrified.
I know it has since attacked two other dogs (and pulled at the man's clothes as he held his dog up on his shoulders)..I know both these walkers well but they did not report the incidents which is very frustrating. 
Again I have reported this meeting to the police and they just listed it as an incident.   It makes a mockery of the updated dangerous dogs act. My dog is not neutered (I don't know about hers) and I was going to get mine done because I hoped it would improve things but my vet says it will make no difference to the problem.  I carry a citrus spray but I think i would be taking a risk with her if I used it on her dog. And the spray might blow back and sting me and my dog. Anyway, I wondered if anybody has any other suggestions on how to protect myself and my dog?  Thank you for listening.

That is crazy, as under the law a dog doesn't have to bite someone it just had to give them reasonable fear the dog will harm them. Although I guess if the police do not know about the other walkers incidents with this dog and owner perhaps if they were to come forward as well they may take it more seriously.
You could try calling someone like Trevor Cooper and see if there is any more action under the law you could take.
https://www.doglaw.co.uk/section-3-dangerous-dogs-act-1991/

From the description the dog has no interest in the person, this therefore is a civil matter and needs to be directed to the dog warden.

Personally I would be walking elsewhere to walk my dog or avoid the times this dog is walked in this location.

Unless something serious happens and she is reported and is required by law to keep the dog on a lead and muzzled this will continue but in the mean time speak with the dog warden about this. Get witness details who have seen this dog behave like this and likely this dog behaves in the same manner towards other dogs it comes across.

also if the dog redirects or as the jumping up it clearly is trying to get to other dogs. Everyone needs to report to yhe dog warden and make them deal with this. Ideally you want a control order on this dog which is set by the courts making it mandatory that the dog is muzzled and on a lead in public

Dog Attack:  Horrendous situation!  You could try getting your friend to video the attacks on your phone.  In today's society anonimity is key to prevent repercussion which is maybe why the others are unwilling to report their findings. The other victims could video their attacks and send them to your phone (if you feel comfortable giving them your mobile no?)  Showing them to the Dog Warden/Police may then give your case more 'clout'.  Best of luck.  This dog's behaviour should not be allowed to continue!

I feel for you, When we had our German shepherd he got picked on a lot by other dogs. Our current dog a female lab luckily has never been attacked.

We had one dog an American bulldog that always went for our GSD. As you can imagine such a pick dog is terrifying when he went after ours.

The police didnt bother with our incidents either.

The owner lived in social housing so we reported him to his landlord as well as the dog warden and it was his landlord that got him to get rid of the dog.

I would keep note what times this dog walks and go out when hes not walking or try to walk quite a way away from were you normally walk.

The american bulldog got rehomed and since getting the training he needs has sinced become a fantastic dog and longer reacts to other dogs.

I wish it was illegal for idiots to own dogs.

Sarakingsley: Totally agree that it should be illegal for idiots to own dogs...unfortunately there are too many to investigate.  The old 1d dog licence was a joke but perhaps a huge price increase to say £100 per dog/puppy over 6 months old would stop those idiots and if found without said licence a debt collector take goods from them to the same value per dog/puppy found on their premises.....that would certainly shake things up! No courts, no solicitors just 'do they have a licence or not?'  (they could always appeal!) hopefully without success

> Sarakingsley: Totally agree that it should be illegal for idiots to own dogs...unfortunately there are too many to investigate.  The old 1d dog licence was a joke but perhaps a huge price increase to say £100 per dog/puppy over 6 months old would stop those idiots and if found without said licence a debt collector take goods from them to the same value per dog/puppy found on their premises.....that would certainly shake things up! No courts, no solicitors just 'do they have a licence or not?'  (they could always appeal!) hopefully without success

As long as they dont start making counterfeit licenses and id make it more than £100.

I wish something was done to stop these idiots owning dogs and especially breeds that need owners who will put in the time for training and socialization like staffies, rotties, GSDs these are only some of the breeds that have ended up with a bad rap because of idiot owners.

Sarakingsley: Counterfeit Licenses:  The 'bad' guys will always find a way.  Any improvement would be a God Send - but as usual - animal welfare is bottom of the pile. Here's hoping the OP finds a solution to her problem soon!

I hope so too. I wish someone in power would care enough to find a solution for us. I'd also add that the license has to be reviewed every 12 months and to get a new license instead of paying your dog has to pass certain criteria like being dog friendly, people and child friendly ect and to prove your dog is under your control as well as the dogs welfare needs are being met. I'd let them only pay for the first license and then have to meet criteria to keep there license.

> The old 1d dog licence was a joke

?? The dog licence was never just 1d. It was 7/6; 37½p after decimalisation (reduced to 37p when the halfpenny was abolished), but a substantial sum when it was first introduced. It was abolished in 1987.

Jeangenie:  Both showing our age here then.  1d was a metaphor.

Sarahkingsley:  So so true!  Thank goodness changes are being made in respect of Licensing Criteria for anyone owning over a certain number of dogs.  Most of the reasons you list for a pass are totally down to 'socialisation'.  For this reason I do not have one nasty dog in my care.  Welfare needs go without saying and I totally agree that more investigation should be prevalent.  Unfortunately, if you are Licensed, this has now become a 'no no' as it is viewed that you are 'hiding behind loopholes'  so sad!  Anyway maybe we should get back to the topic of the OP?  Dog Attack...any suggestions?

I'm always confused by people & organisations like the RSPCA believing that an expensive dog licence will stop dog attacks/fights. It would penalise the law abiding citizens who would pay the £100 a year per dog or possibly be priced out of owning a couple of dogs & the criminals/law breakers would take their dogs underground & pay zilch. It hasn't worked in NI nor Ireland.

It wouldn't stop incidents with dogs, unless the dog had to carry the licence in it's mouth 24/7 this preventing it biting.

Ann R Smith: Dog Attack: Sure your point is valid.  Do you have further suggestions or a solution? Surely Law abiding citizens would pay the £100 (metaphorically) if the overall funding went towards govt review & debate regarding a way forward rather than sticking their heads in the sand?

> Sarahkingsley:  So so true!  Thank goodness changes are being made in respect of Licensing Criteria for anyone owning over a certain number of dogs.  Most of the reasons you list for a pass are totally down to 'socialisation'.  For this reason I do not have one nasty dog in my care.  Welfare needs go without saying and I totally agree that more investigation should be prevalent.  Unfortunately, if you are Licensed, this has now become a 'no no' as it is viewed that you are 'hiding behind loopholes'  so sad!  Anyway maybe we should get back to the topic of the OP?  Dog Attack...any suggestions?

Agree, i get a little carried away and go off topic when its something im passionate about.

OP , i hope you find a solution. Were all here for you if you need us.

a stout walking stick would be my advise- very effective if cracked down hard enough on offender . walk well away from where that dog is likely to be). I would also suggest walking near fast busy roads where the other owner will not have her dog off lead. if it does put so much as a scratch on your skin then that ups the anti and means police do have to view it more seriously so any injury do not treat until you have had it inspected by either doctor or police.

Weimed:  Dog attack:  You have just said what everyone I have spoken to in this situation thought and it was my first reaction so totally agree but you can be prosecuted for injuring an animal too so I'd tread lightly, frustrating as it is!!!  To be found guilty of harming an animal could put the OP in jeopardy of her little dog being taken from her....the law can be an ass sometimes

I am so sorry that you are not enjoying walks right now. Exercise and talking to other dog owners is one of the pleasures of owning a dog.
Can I assume that you meet this person in fields or parks as it’s off lead ? If so I would avoid these places unfortunately, and stick to pavement walks.
As others have suggested, try to work out her walking routine. Most of us have one.
Also, how about carrying a ‘weapon’ to give you some confidence ? A golfing umbrella with the solid metal pointed end would be useful. And a man I see walking a dog carries a walking stick even though he doesn’t need it. It’s made out of wood, not a usual walking stick with the rubber end.

I'd avoid hitting the dog, as this could redirect it's aggression to people.

An umbrella used to startle and used as a shield is a better idea.

Opening it towards it would have a similar effect to a cat fluffing up to look bigger.  You can also, open and shut it in the dogs direction.

I'd also stick to on lead walking areas until you both regain confidence around other dogs.

Constant bad encounters could in turn make your dog fear aggresive toward other dogs.

We already have compulsory microchipping to identify dogs and link them to owners.

The reasoning by introducing this law was much touted to prevent such issues.

Problem as usual is enforcement.

We already had (and still do) have a law requiring dogs in public to wear id tags.

Similar story with anti Puppy farming welfare legislation, the laws fail due to lack of enforcement, and end up only causing expense and red tape for those law abiding citizens who don't need to be 'controlled'.

The poster as suggested needs to gather more evidence, and in first instance take to Council (Dog Warden if they have one) who can issue Canine asbo's

Brainless:  Problem as usual is enforcement: Totally True.  I believe this is where the general public a law abiding dog owners are invaluable in reporting issues.  No one holds all the answers but doing something constructive is better than nothing IMO.  Perhaps a systematic area approach by wardens & police dog handlers would be a starting point - not in the usual formal vans advertising who they are but more of an unannounced approach which is a discussion that's been had on here regarding Puppy Farms but not individual households. They would then be fined for having an unlicensed dog. (microchip info attached to the Licence so fraudulent activity would be lessened and no microchip would also be illegal and up for a fine too)

Can I just point out that microchips were not introduced to prove ownership of dogs. The word owner does not appear anywhere in the legislation for compulsory microchipping.

Legal ownership of property(which is how dogs are classified in the UK) requires a permanent visible mark, along with proof of purchase if appropriate.

Also police dog handlers are not officially tasked under the Control of Dogs Act to be involved. Their duties are not directly linked with the Act & TBH few dog handlers are trained or proficient in handling dogs other than their assigned police dogs. With the switch to buying in fully trained licensed dogs from abroad, many Police Dogs handlers no longer train their own dogs from scratch to licensed status, reducing even more their handling of non police dog skills. I fail to understand why the public assume that Police Dog handlers are especially skilled dog controllers/handlers, they are not sadly, there are far more skilled people in other professions involving fogs

Ann R:  Microchipping.  I am aware it is not proof of ownership but a microchip will identify whether the dog being investigated is the Licenced dog or not.  Re visible marking of animals.  My husband used to have his own company freeze branding horses including 'loss of use' on behalf of insurance companies so well aware of ownership legislation.

Just thinking that when new legislation came into play re 'tail docking' there was a huge data base set up by Animal Welfare for a fine of £1000 to be handed out to anyone found not to have the correct paperwork.  Perhaps something similar could be put in place for Licensing?

That should be" involving dogs" just love autospell

What a horrible situation for you and I can just imagine the stress of it all.   Here is what I would do.  At the first sign of the dog I would turn tail and get my boy out of the area every time.   I would not allow any confrontation at all and if that means training my dog to quickly 180 and run away with me as if a nice game with treats then so be it.  I would also post on the Facebook page of our village a description of the dog and warn other dog walkers about the attack, where they have happened and fact that they have been reported so that others will be aware and cautious when approaching the dog.  They are also more likely to report any incidence too.  I would feel comfortable that I had done my bit to help others but my priority would be keeping my boy safe and no where near the aggressive dog.  Someone's dog is going to be badly hurt one day.

I would have a chat around your community to find out if other people have experienced the same thing. Your complaint will carry more weight if many of you complain than if just person does. I can guarantee your dog isn't the only 'victim' of this woman and her dog! If you see other people arriving/leaving from the car park, go have a chat with them and ask if they have had bad experiences with her. See if you can get their contact details to word a letter from you all, with all your experiences.

If you have a GoPro camera or similar, I'd also just routinely wear that every time you go out. Things happen so fast and there's no time to pull out a phone and start filming so if you can just record things every single time, that works great and you can compile evidence.

Every single time there is an incident, log it with the dog warden and complain. Don't feel that just because you've done this once and it hasn't resulted in anything that it's a dead end - it's going to be the sheer weight of complaints that result in something.

And I'd definitely consider carrying something to protect my dog, if I were you. That could be a water pistol(!), mace or pepper spray, citronella, the thing that makes a spray noise - Pet Corrector, that's what it's called(!) etc - and make sure that your own dog is totally fine with whatever you use if it does make a noise so you're not adding more stress to the situation for your own dog.  Have someone else hold it at a distance and make a noise with it whilst you deliver really tasty treats to your own dog - as if the noise 'creates' the treats for your dog - until you can have the person get closer and closer until you are holding it yourself. Then use it on every walk when there's no other dog around and throw a handful of treats down for your own dog. That way your own dog is going to love the noise, whilst the other dog is scared of it...

And don't neuter your own, perfectly healthy and well dog, just in some weird bid to try to make him less appealing to this other dog - that's really chop logic. Neutering has all kinds of physical and health-related drawbacks, especially when done to a young dog, and your own dog has no problem. If a kid is getting bullied at school because he has long hair, we would thing it a pretty awful solution to cut his hair off to stop the bullying, right??

Ann R:  Police Dog Handlers Fair point,  I was unaware Police Dog Handlers were not proficiently trained these days.  I think maybe the General Public would assume they were in relation to their job title.  My thoughts in mentioning them as a possible back up to Dog Wardens is because the Law would then be on their side. Competent people from other professions may not have legal status.  Are Dog Wardens proficient in handling dogs?  That might be another concern

Totally agree with brainless but unfortunately I’ve recently been caught up in an awful attack and have been completely shocked at how little the police or dog warden can do.
I really do feel for you, I’ve been having to start from the beginning with one of my girls as she’s now very fearful of everything. About 3 weeks ago we were walking in some fields where we’ve walked for 4 years and she was attacked out of the blue in the river. I tried my best to get down to do something and help her but it was a choice of my other dogs getting involved (one who’s such a softy I have no doubt he could’ve killed her) so I had to choose the option of standing on the sidelines screaming my guts out and hoping she’d be okay. This dog, who’s owners were in the river shoes on and all (it wasn’t a hot day so for me that was weird as everyone stands on the bridge above to watch the dogs) just charged at her as soon as she stepped into the river and went for her neck, she fought back for a few seconds (felt like minutes) and then submitted let out a agonising scream and then just whimpered. I could see he had her neck and shoulder in his mouth and was squeezing, rearranging his mouth and going again. The owner eventually got his dog, by the handle he had on his collar. My girl was a curled up ball on the floor and wouldn’t move. I had to really call her in the calmest happiest way possible, I was in tears, for her to eventually come. I took photos of them, the guy of course wouldn’t give me his name, and know what car they came in with reg. Also like to add the owner was there with, I’m assuming, his kids and none of them batted an eyelid. Which speaks volumes to me that it’s happened before, the kids I know would have screamed louder than me! I phoned the police straight away who were nice and wrote an incident report down etc but told me as the dog hadn’t harmed me to report it to the dog warden. I’ve since spoken to the dog warden who has given me a witness statement to fill out but she’s made it clear that they won’t be able to find him and nothing will be done because I was on my own and it’s his word against mine, plus he had his kids with him so they’ll back his story up.

My girl is getting better, physically she had 6 deep puncture wounds - it could’ve been worse, but as the vets don’t stitch them up it was very painful for her and for us to witness her coping with them. Mentally she’s not good, she was the most confident out of all my girls in a calm way. I have been able to help her get better at some things already, but unknown dogs have been too difficult. I’ve got an amazing behaviourist coming to help. But the whole thing has been horrendous for us all but even worse for her. I’d like to add she is a Labrador, well mannered and trained lol, she’s the least bothered about dogs out of them all. She was just wondering down to the river, with one of the other girls behind her like usual. The other dog was a cane corso/American bulldog type dog - all black with cropped ears. I don’t want to stereotype any dogs but that’s the description it fit. He was about double the size of her, she’s a dual purpose lab so not too solid not too small. I said this to the police if I had been down there with her I have no doubt he would’ve gone for me.
So I do really feel for you, thankfully I was moving out 3 days later anyway to a completely different area so no chance of crossing paths again but I’m still very wary of other dogs that don’t look under control.

I know this isn't a true solution but to help u and your dog relax but run free  would.it be possible to find one of the secure dog walking fields and take her there occasionally?
Ime they usually cost about £10 an hour
Also if u do see the other dog coming towards u apart from exiting rapidly try throwing a handful.of.treats away from u and towards the other dog .it can distract long enough for.you and your.dog get out of the way

I am sorry that must have been an awful experience for u and.your poor dog

God that is awful.  Hope you make some good progress with your girl.

Both horrible incidents, I hope you manage to help your dogs come to terms with what happened. As to the handful of treats FF, sounds like it’d take a dinosaur leg to stop the latter one!! I know how much it can shake you up when it happens, so I hope the humans soon feel better too. The dog field is a good idea, I had an event at one over the summer and it was excellent, really well thought out.

> no microchip would also be illegal and up for a fine too)

The point is that it is already a legal requirement that every dog is microchipped by 8 weeks old by the person that bred it, and that it is transfered to new owners, with details kept up to date.

A £500 fine is payable.

So no need for a licence which would simply be an additional layer of beurocracy - Dog Tax.

Problem is those who have the power to enforce choose not to, primarily as it's low prority for them, and will always be, no matter how many laws are passed.

I am constantly amazed at thee found dog posts, surely a scan should yield an owner, as it has been law since 2016.

Ditto recovered stolen dogs.

I diid wonder about needing a dinosaur leg rr as this does sound extreme but that tactic does help in some circumstances. 
I've had to work with behaviourist with my brooke who is nervous aggressive and it was a tactic suggested so we could about turn and get away if a dog was coming towards us giving us a bit more time for an exit.
Generally its about walking as if u are a meerkat in alert not relaxing  at all but necessary to avoid any problems
We now use a dog  fileld a few times a week to allow her to free run safely otherwise its road walking so everyone is calm and safe

A remarkable number of dogs are still not microchip compliant.

A friend's dog went missing & after 6 weeks in captivity in a council kennels the Dog Warden finally contacted the registered keeper by POST that they held their dog & that the registered keeper had 24 hours to claim their dog before he was either PTS or"rehomed"

Now this dog was both microchipped & tattooed plus wearing a collar complete with up to date tag. The tattoo & chip records were all up to date & the chip & tattoo registries knew he was missing as well as all local dog wardens, kennels etc.

The dog was reclaimed in time & the owner had to pay over £1,000 in kennelling fees! Turned out the dog was found the day he went missing by the Dog Warden, who not only deliberately either didn't scan him or failed to trace the number via Petlog , but never looked at the collar tag, not checked for a tattoo despite the dog being taken to a vet for full examination, which would include looking in ears (& tattoo was very visible).

Once the dog was safe, the owner(retired police detective) did some checking with very damming results for the Dog Warden.

1. The DW took the dog to the LA kennels the day he went missing & placed him the dangerous dogs section, with staff told not to tell anyone he was there as he was part of a court case evidence!

2.The DW did not check the chip on the Petlog database until the day the letter was sent & Petlog notified the keeper a trace on the chip had been made by phone call.

3. The DW never contacted the NDTR. re the tattoo at all.

This evidence was sent to the LA & police resulting in the DW being instantly dismissed(she appealed but this too failed)for gross misconduct in a "public office". The CPS & Police charged her with theft by finding, grosmisconduct in a"public office "& a couple of other offences & were successful, because under UK law, if you find property that is permanently marked you must make all reasonable efforts to return it to it's owner, which obviously the DW deliberately did not do.

I wonder how many other pedigree/designer dogs have been squirreled away by DWs to be sold on.

The dog concerned was a valuable pedigree breed with a ready market !

Ann that's an awful story . I just hope it's a one off

Turned out the dog was found the day he went missing by the Dog Warden, who not only deliberately either didn't scan him or failed to trace the number via Petlog

What an awful story about the dog warden! I hope he was suitably punished. As regards Pet Log though, this is a big bug bear of mine. There are now apparently FOURTEEN different UK microchip data bases. Companies are competing with each other offering free microchips and other freebies if you use their data base. One is even allegedly set up and run by a person making money from breeding CNR Bulldogs. There is no sense to this at all. If there can be one dodgy dog wardern who doesn't bother checking a chip on Pet Log, how many will check all 14 data bases? Usually people know about Pet Log and therefore check there, and I for one will only use Pet Log for that reason. I can't understand how it can be legal for so many data bases to exist as it makes microchips more and more worthless.

mace or pepper spray

Just to point out, both of these are illegal for use by civilians in the UK.

Brainless:  microchipping:  You are absolutely right that microchipping by the Breeder has been compulsary since 2016.  I do the chipping myself and the 'transfer of details' has to be done by me on the Petlog site on day of collection.  My point regarding every dog owner having a licence with microchip details attached was in relation to people keeping unidentifiable dogs that attack & removal of the said animal (identified by microchip on a metaphoric compulsary licence requirement) if an asbo has been imposed or trying to impose an asbo)  We are by no means there yet but just putting possible legislation theories out there.  It would mean all dogs even pre 2016 would have to be micro chipped - a big task but as a country of animal lovers might well appeal to the General Public.

When you scan it tells you which database the chip is on, least does with the Halo scanner I have.

Just to clarify.

It isn't just dogs born since 2016 that are required to be chipped, the law applies to every dog.

Except in doggy circles I never saw anything in the news or other non specialist media making this clear to the General Public.

I have vet friends who tell me they see new unchipped pups all the time.

I'd argue that most of the owners who are not complying with this law through ignorance or forgetfulness are otherwise law abiding and responsible.

What hope that those who aren't would comply with more laws/rules, especially costly ones.

Up until then I had all mine Ear tattooed, then did both, but just chipped the last three litters.

From what's been written might go back to tattooing as well. Mine have always worn collars with tags.

> <br />It isn't just dogs born since 2016 that are required to be chipped, the law applies tobevery dog.

Yes, agree that's how I read the law too, yet still when dogs are found, they say not micro-chipped...Hmmmm

Yes, the chip law refers to keeper, but laws regarding their behaviour also refer to keeper or person in charge.

Goldmali:  Microchip Data Bases:  Yes I can vouch for these 'un heard of' companies touting for business.  Before I completed my course with Petlog I was in undated with other companies offering me training, free chips for a year, free adverts on their site etc etc. Seems to me everytime new legislation is passed, a scammer will find a way to make money!
Losing the will to trust any animal protection/welfare body since getting more indepth details from the forum.

>how many will check all 14 data bases? Usually people know about Pet Log and therefore check there, and I for one will only use Pet Log for that reason. I can't understand how it can be legal for so many data bases to exist as it makes microchips more and more worthless.

You should never need to ring more than 2, because if it's not one of their chips they'll tell you which database it's on and give you the phone number. This has happened to me several times when strays have been brought in to work.

I am sure most of the General public are unaware of the law.

As I said elsewhere it was all over Dog World/Our Dogs and KC, but I saw nothing in mainstream media or News.

Similar the Dangerous Dogs Act, most people don't realise that there are banned breeds, that should have died out decades ago, as they were required to be neutered.

Also that not only breeding, but selling or re-homing one was ilegal.

Brainless:  Vet seeing new unchipped pups all the time:  Maybe Vets could ask a few questions during initial consultation with the new owner as to who the breeder was if the puppy is unchipped after all they are at the fore front of animal welfare?  I know it sounds like 'closing the door when the horse has bolted' but I'm sure a Vet has the ability to report cruelty. neglect etc and to me non chipped animals come under the same umbrella.

BVA made it clear at the time that they would notbexpect Vets to Police the law.