Anyone done a loan of bitch for a litter? Obv I know the nesc paperwork needed for KC.  What, if any, contract did you 'draw up' with bitches owner?

Yes in 2000.

I did not have a written contract, but would urge you to get terms in writing.

Agree who pays for:

Bitches health testing.

What fee for the loan ( if pup which sex/pick).

What happens if litter or bitch lost, emergency spay?

If bitch misses, do you try again.

Who handles mating, and costs.

When do you have bitch come to you, and importantly how long she stays after (you will want her until last pup is homed).

My mentor asked me if I would consider breeding a litter for a felliw breed enthusiast and judge.

He was still in full time work and his wife's health was too frail to rear a litter.

My mentor and her husband were also coming to the end of their breeding, fitting in a litter very occasionally having started in the 1950's.

Mine is a numerically small breed, needing more well bred.litters to keep a viable gene pool.

The plan was that they wanted a pup for themselves and chose the stud.  They had paid for her health testing.

I would have the bitch to stay once confirmed in whelp.

In the event they couldn't have a puppy, as early retirement plans had not materialised after all.

So I paid them the price of a puppy for the use of their bitch, as well as stud fee.

From the litter a new owner showed their dogbto his title, even though they had bought him as 'only a pet'. The owner bought a half sibling two years later from another breeder, made her up to a champion, with BOB at Crufts one year. The man progressed to judging. They never bred as they live in a flat.

A bitch fom the litter bought by a breeder of another breed was shown to RCC and ha one litter, and her owner is a committee member for our breed club.

So all in all the litter did some good for the breed and breed cimmunity, as well as providing loved companions.

Would I do it again. NO!!

The bitch came to me at 6 weeks in whelp with a severe case of direhoea. This resulted in poor appetite. I had to hand feed her, and she was in poor bodily condition by whelping, as not enough time to make up the deficit.

Whelping didn't progress after first pup. Vets managed to get two more with shits of Oxytocin and Calcium (which was very low), and finally the rest of litter of 7 delivered by C section.

The inappetence continued. So I had 8 weeks of stuffing soaked balls of food down her neck. I also had to supplement Calcium.

Pups reared well, and I had her in decent weight by 12 weeks after whelping, when she went home.

My kids were upset at her going home, as they had become attached!

The stress of the responsibility for someone elses beloved dog weighed heavily, she could have died!

Do not open that can of worms it can and has gone badly wrong for people in the past and still is going wrong.

Friend did it many years ago for a different friend this is going back to the seventies

Bitch came unknowing infected with what I was told was parvo he lost the bitch and all puppies that where not his and the lost six of his own nine due to the parvo.

You can imagine the trouble this caused the owner of the bitch had the rest of her dogs tested all positive for parvo.

So she had caused the friend who was doing a favour due to her personal problems to lose six of his dogs.

So who owes who money I am told it took solicitors and the lost of a friend but yes the owner of the bitch was at fault

I never did this - too complicated/potentially messy.   I had a friend who was 'flattered' by one of the leading breeders where we lived at the time and took 2 bitches on loan terms.  That breeder had her use the breeder's stud dogs (I don't remember who paid for what re the studs) and when the litters were born, swept in and picked the best,.   I saw no point doing all the work and having the original owner pick the best.  That breeder had several satellite kennels using her stock.   She offered this to me but I declined.

If you do this, GET IT ALL IN WRITING.`

I was once in the process of buying a pedigree kitten when a couple of days before collection the breeder sprang this on me- she wanted the kitten to remain in her name and be shown under her name, then when old enough handed over to live at the breeders and breed one litter. She was furious when I refused -and I never got my kitten.  I did not mind showing but I wanted the kitten registered as owned by me and if I did choose to breed I was not sending my household pet to go live with a stranger for months . I was branded a time waster for refusing to hand over several hundred pounds for this deal.   I also copped it off family who said I was mad- should have just got the kitten and had her spayed! I was so upset- really wanted that kitten.  I would never consider loaning out an animal for breeding.

I think we are confusing 'Loan of Bitch' and 'Breeding Terms'.

They can of course be combined, but are seperate things.

'Breeding Terms' contracts mean that the breeder retains rights to breeding potential of a bitch.

'Loan of Bitch' is borrowing the breeding potential for a litter.

The bitch concerned may as in my case have no connection from the person wanting to loan.

In USA they say 'Leasing a bitch'.

This could be a way for a Novice to allow a top class bitch to be bred from, perhaps to have a puppy back, when they are unable to breed themselves, due to lack of facilities, or work commitments etc.

I saw no point doing all the work and having the original owner pick the best.

There is no original owner in a loan of bitch agreement -the ownership remains the same but the person who borrows the bitch is able to breed a litter from her in their name. The agreement is usually for 6 months. The owner cannot pick any of the puppies unless it was agreed as a stud fee or other fee. When I did it the registered owner got second pick of the pups, that was our written agreement.

> There is no original owner in a loan of bitch agreement -the ownership remains the same but the person who borrows the bitch is able to breed a litter from her in their name.

My wording was wrong - I just said 'original owner' to mean the existing owner.   Sorry.   Of course I know the bitch remains in the same ownership.   And that owner wouldn't necessarily take pick puppies - that's just what happened with a friend who did this.   Of course, again, it should ALL be in writing (contract).  So it's all as clear as possible, at the outset.

And again in the case of my friend, the breeder she had the arrangement with was no novice.  Again I felt my friend did all the work and that breeder walked off with (in that case!) what were her pick - potentially the best as mine is a slow maturing breed.

This kind of arrangement is not for me even if it sometimes means people get their hands on top quality bitches to breed from, without actually buying in.

Yes, it does require a lot of trust between the parties, and is a huge responsibility for the "borrower', and a worry for the loaner who will be deprived of their bitch for 3+ months.

As you say it is another useful way to not waste the breeding potential of a good bitch just because of her owners circumstances. More important in numerically small or impoverished gene pools.

Also another waybfor a breeder to preserve/get back their bloodlines if disaster strikes.

After 8 generations I have lost my only breeding age bitch.

This is an option I would have taken if my former puppy buyer was not intending to breed themselves.

Get it all.in writing, any possible eventually and who is responsible for what and who has what claims over the litter ect.
I've known two people who have done it, one of Sent to work out fine for them I believe the owner gets a puppy back and the breeder gets the rest of the litter, and I think they have done it more than once. The other it was a bit bumpy when the owner changed their mind on what they wanted when the litter was 6 weeks old.

I own a bitch in partnership with a friend but despite being friends we have a written contract that states where everyone stands and how breeding will work.