I'm really a bit disappointed with CDs.

I like to keep an eye on litters listed in my breeds, so I go to check the CD list of litters - only to find that you now have to pay £10.95 for 'priority viewing' of litters!!! 

If you pay £10.95 you get to see the advert 2 days before the general public!! 

This is nothing but profiteering in a new way from the puppy craze   CDs must be raking it in, what with the number of people looking for puppies now just having to pay £10.95 to get a sneak look at litters 48 hours before everyone else.

Clearly a lot of people are paying because some of these litters are listed as All Sold even before they have gone public!!

Am surprised  that there have not been further comments on this 'sharp practice' but clearly many on the forum are in agreement with OP

Honestly it’s hard to think of a way to respond to this without resorting to the kind of language that would get me banned.

I’ve already stopped recommending the site to people looking for a puppy due to the lack of clarity over health test results which I believe are misleading, and the inclusion of a commercial breeder which is against the rules that Mark R made it very clear we’re all supposed to abide by.

If one commercial breeder is allowed to belong here, how many others are here too? Basically I can’t trust this service to find an ethically bred healthy puppy, so what’s the point?

The only reason I’m still a member of the forum is because of all the useful information I’m learning from some of the members.

Very sad to read this.  I have always had a high opinion of CD's and recommend many people looking for puppies to this site.  In future I wont be if they have to pay to view a litter to stand a chance of getting on a list.

I hope they do a 'U Turn' on this decision

> I hope they do a 'U Turn' on this decision

I doubt it unfortunately! They’ve not done a u-turn on breaking their own rules of no commercial breeders allowed as there is still at least one on there!

Any thoughts on what we could do to try and stop this?

>Any thoughts on what we could do to try and stop this?

I feel like it's against the terms of service. I mean, as a breeder who advertises litters on CDs, I pay for them to be immediately publicly visible to all. Not to be withheld from everyone for 48 hours except for those who want to pay an extra £10.95. 

I don't want only people prepared to pay £10.95 to get to view my litters and for this category of people to then get priority booking a puppy.

Frankly if I advertised a litter right now on CDs, I would reply to any enquiries and say 'thank you for your enquiry, but I won't be responding until after 48 hours - please reapply or recontact me then' - so that then I can see the full range of people interested.

I feel that it is limiting who can respond to breeder ads, it is charging people even more to find a puppy when the prices are already sky-high and it is pretty despicable.

My CDs membership ended a few months ago after our last pup left us and I won't be renewing for future litters whilst this policy is in place. I don't understand how CDs admin can be disparaging about what is going on at the moment with regards to puppy prices and then jump on the band wagon and implement policies like this?!

Maybe requesting a direct discussion with admin on here could be useful ?
They must   aware if people's views

I too feel very uncomfortabe that CD is charging to give priority viewing of available litters. We all pay a membership to help fund this site.  Think more questions should be asked of admin re the longevity of the site had this charge NOT have been put in place. Perhaps funding of such sites has dropped dramatically as with many Charities. Zoos etc and others may follow suit for similar reasons?

I agree with onetwothreefour, if I was a breeder I certainly wouldn’t want to be giving any kind of priority based on who’s willing to pay £10.95 to see my litter first.

Hopefully any breeder with any kind of integrity would also wait 48 hours before even considering potential owners in this situation. But then of course, the enquirer will quite rightly feel that they’ve paid their money for nothing.

Do any of you breeders prioritise earliness of response in any way when choosing who to sell a puppy to? What I’m asking is, will paying extra money actually help anyone’s chances of getting one of your babies?

It just somehow reminds me of seeing ads that claim “deposit secures”. I think we’d all agree that it’s best for breeders to choose buyers based on something other than having the cash to pay. A priority viewing fee, while not guaranteeing that a buyer will get a puppy if they have the money, is creeping dangerously into that territory, quite apart from looking like a cash grab taking advantage of the current difficulties people are experinceing with high demand for puppies.

Thinking about this further, I don’t think I would be objecting in this way if this was simply a fee to use the services this site provides, a fee that *everyone* would need to pay to be allowed access to the information.

Many types of site use this model, with users paying a yearly /monthly fee to use the service. I pay for access to birth/marriage/death records, etc, on one of the big family history sites. If I looked up a name but didn’t have a subscription, I’d be shown incomplete and mostly useless results, but enough to know whether it was worth paying for full access.

I guess here that would equate to “we currently have 6 Rottweiler litters listed, but only paying subscribers can see any of the necessary details”.

I don’t necessarily think this is the way forward for a site which deals with the lives of animals, but it certainly sits more comfortably with me than any kind of priority access fee

> Do any of you breeders prioritise earliness of response in any way when choosing who to sell a puppy to?

I do in a way. I ask all potential puppy buyers to fill in an extensive questionnaire. I then go through those and all that are initially suitable go on the list. I then organise that list by date of earliest enquiry to give me a starting point and speak to those few at the top of the list over the phone/video call to ensure they are a good match. If someone further down the list stands out as a better home though I do reserve the right to move people around. It is not done solely on date of enquiry but I have so many lovely people on my list that I wouldn’t be able to choose if I didn’t have some sort of system in place.

My current litter, one of my new owners has been waiting a year and offer a fab home.

I found it was a good way to start narrowing things down. I don’t close my waiting list but I do make everyone aware about how many are in front of them at the time of enquiry/returning my questionnaire.

My next litter is not planned until the end of 2021 and puppies will not be going to new homes until 2022 so people know there is a wait. However they may well find another puppy between now and when I next have an available litter.

>Do any of you breeders prioritise earliness of response in any way when choosing who to sell a puppy to? What I’m asking is, will paying extra money actually help anyone’s chances of getting one of your babies?

The problem is that by the time the ad goes public to everyone, it says 'All puppies reserved' - so the people who are coming along after 48 hours aren't even getting a look in.

And no, I give no priority before breeding and during pregnancy to anyone based on order of enquiry - I go by the quality of the home. But after birth, things start to firm up as I look at the people I have and the puppies I have. It becomes necessary to tell people if they definitely have a puppy or not (even if I can't tell them which one) after birth and I can't go back on that just because a better home comes along. But before that point, no, order of enquiry means nothing.

Nobody knows for sure with me who is getting a puppy until after birth either. I just let them know roughly how many are on the list as they always seem to ask. The order of enquiry is really just a starting point for me to try to get my head round things and I have moved people around as and when needed. Same as you, once they have been informed there is no changing it.

That makes sense masajackrussell, thank you. That sounds a lot like what I’d do myself - first filter by suitability, then give vague preference by date of enquiry, but move people around as necessary. I mean you’re always going to have people who would match up better with different puppies, and it’s totally reasonable to ask someone to wait for the next litter if the perfect pup for them doesn’t appear this time.

Personally I think I got lucky with River, he was in the second litter the breeder had after I joined the waiting list. I wanted a companion dog that I could try agility with so I wasn’t fussy about colour or markings or show quality. I was told before the litter was born that there might be a pup for me, but of course we didn’t know what would be available. After the birth the breeder told me she wasn’t sure which if the two dogs she wanted to keep for herself, but to be honest I would have been perfectly happy with either of them, or the bitch if she didn’t already have a home lined up.

As it was, both dogs looked good at 3 weeks but River was a little bigger so she thought he’d be a better agility prospect than his brother. And since he’s a nice dog, I decided I’d try showing as well.

I am very interested in the new owner selection process as I’m planning to help my friend when she breeds her standard long haired dachshund bitch in a couple of years.

> The problem is that by the time the ad goes public to everyone, it says 'All puppies reserved' - so the people who are coming along after 48 hours aren't even getting a look in

This is what worries me, breeders potentially choosing who to sell to in the first 48 hours from the limited pool of people who have paid for early access, rather than carefully pairing up puppies with a larger pool of suitable potential owners.

I think it’s in the best interests of everyone involved if the whole process is slower anyway. If I was breeding I would want time to consider everything including of course suitability of new owners and what their preferences are, as well as assessing the traits and personalities of each pup.

I’d want to reserve the right to keep multiple pups myself if more than one looked promising. And I’d want to be able to get to know potential owners, which I believe takes time.

I just think the whole “pay to see litters early” thing gives enquirers the wrong idea about how new owners selection takes place. At least, how I really hope it takes place.

We've been looking for a pup for a while and saw the introduction of the fee for early viewing which we refused to pay and has put us off looking on CD. When you go onto the priority access page it does state that you are not guaranteed to pup just because you have signed up for it.  Looking at a new litter it just states “new litter” and I think the area of the country but that is all until the 48 hours is up.

I'd prefer planned/expected litter adverts, as I like to have longer to get to know potential owners, before pups are born.

Advertising once a litter is already born, means vetting has to be done sometimes with very little time before pups leave.

A priority fee for such adverts would sit better, as these would be people planning ahead and willing to wait.

I have to admit I have never advertised a litter here though, or on KC site.

> and has put us off looking on CD

Interesting to get a buyer's perspective, thanks.

I agree, it makes CDs seem on the same money-grabbing level as Pets 4 Homes or something... it is almost like a scam...

I have only once before come across a website where they charged you to see adverts early, and that was the now gone infamous Epupz.

Silverleaf:  As a Breeder & CD Member I wasn't even awware of the charges until logging in today. I don't think any responsible breeder would see 'earliness of response' as a plus point.
I know I keep harping on about vetting but in my opinion that is the only way to determine whether your puppy will have a future. No deposit is taken by me unless prospective owners visit twice .... we really should look into setting criteria as a group and then approach governing bodies - we would then have a measurement of acceptability in every arena

I prefer breeders NOT to pre-advertise their litters even if perhaps they have to in these times.   I query how any breeder can put a price on puppies BEFORE they are even born.  Further, to me it's tempting fate to pre-advertise a litter.  If I had to advertise at all (which when I was still breeding, was rare) I only advertised a litter available + price, after the litter was established which meant at least 2 weeks after birth.

Times change - not always for the better.

Ah, but how else to have a waiting list.

We see so many potential owners not knowing that they should ideally find a breeder and go on a waiting list.

They get frustrated that all pups seem to be reserved, as they get in too late, result people buy the ready now mass produced pups.

People don't realise that at least 6 months before a pup is ready to be homed is the time to be in contact with a breeder, if not a year.

When you plan a litter, you surely want some potential homes, before going ahead?.

Many of us rarely need to actually advertise a litter once born, except maybe when we first started, more of one sex, or the odd cancellation..

How are people supposed to source truly well bred pups?

We want to steer buyers away from off the shelf pups.

Lets face it you have to wait months for many furniture items.

My Sofas that I ordered before my move July 2019 finally arrived in my new home in December.

Sideboards and wall unit also many weeks.

I was in contact with and on a waiting list with a good breeder for 2 years before I was successful. This is someone who breeds for health longevity and good temperament as well as show results. She only breeds when she wants something for herself to continue her breeding programme. Having had two from a litter I immediately went back on her waiting list.

She is well known in the fancy and has done extensive research on diet.

She breeds Fancy Rats.

I think the only way we can help improve 5he general quality of puppies availablebto good pet homes is to help wirh planning ahead.

The message needs to get out there that your searching for breeders and not puppies ready to go.

I only bred for my next generation.   I was active within my breed and the showing world and pretty much always had enquiries coming in, whether I had a litter on the ground or no.  If I didn't I pretty much knew somebody who did and passed the enquiry on.    I certainly didn't wait until I had a full book of people waiting for my puppies.  My breeding activities centred around my need for the next litter and I'd never dream of putting a price on my litters, before they were even born.   Others in my breed knew when I was doing a litter.

This is absurd

To be honest, I have stopped recommending CD since the recent debacle - allowing commercial breeders who's health testing practices are questionable

Talking about the site, has anyone noticed the breeder profiles no longer have a link to their own private website? I noticed this the other day when Looking up the spelling of a dogs name I went to their page on champdogs planning to use the link to get to their site and there was no link. Have checked others on there that I know have websites My own included and non have a link anymore. When I joined it was that you could have the link to your website by the contact this breeder button if you had a link back to champdogs on your site.

I hadn't noticed that but would.find it very annoying as I like to browse a website regardless as to if I am going to contact a breeder.
I've always . found looking at websites very helpful so without that I guess u have to do a bit of Googling instead.

>has anyone noticed the breeder profiles no longer have a link to their own private website?

This is insane!

onetwothreefour -

Yep! 

I am not looking for a puppy at the moment (thank goodness!) and if I was seeking one, I would wait for the right breeder and refuse to pay these crazy prices.

However, I do keep an eye on what is going on with litters as I may be looking in the future.  I have just seen a litter advertised (not yet born, but "all sold").  Working Labs and the ONLY tests the parents have are hips and elbows.  No eye testing; no DNA tests.

Also, clicking on information on paying for priority viewing of litters, for the fee of over £10 I see that this would entitle me to the privilege of viewing litters "ONE DAY" before the general public.  It does not even say "48 hours" which has been mentioned previously.  Apologies for "shouting" in capitals.  I'm just gobsmacked ...   !!

I’ve been idly looking at golden retriever puppies as I have done for years mainly just out of interest as I have no plans to get another pup. When I looked a few days ago there were I think about 5 to 6 litters, all were sold apart from one which had barely any health tests for the dam, I think just hips.

>I have just seen a litter advertised (not yet born, but "all sold").

How can an unborn litter all be sold??? You won't know how many of which sex will be born alive.

If I was a breeder registered on here I’d be removing myself.

> Talking about the site, has anyone noticed the breeder profiles no longer have a link to their own private website?

Well that’s very annoying. I could see it on my page when I was logged in, but not when logged out. Presumably this is to keep people on the champdogs website.

Brainless: 'All Sold before Birth'  This is madness to say the least.  I totally agree you can't sell something that doesn't physically exist. Very dangerous for the New Owners  if they have paid full asking price or more likely even a deposit.  Perhaps the Breeder shoild apply the word 'Reserved' rather than sold but I believe no money should change hands until the Litter is verified & the New Owner has been thoroughly vetted a visit is made after Puppies reach 4 weeks of age.

I'm not breeding anymore for personal & health reasons, but I'm glad I'm not the way things are going is bloody ridiculous.
I've wanted to get a Boston terrier for years think I'll have to accept will never be getting one.

agree Brainless and see some breeders are taking deposits from people without meeting them and before the bitch is scanned to know if she is even pregnant. I know this because I've had so many enquiries and the same breeder kept cropping up wanting a deposit before bitch scanned or before the litter have been born and never even met the breeder or their dogs. I told them that is nuts and yes they do advertise on this site.
The breeder basically telling these people then you aren't right for one of their puppies because they didn't want to put a deposit down before seeing the bitch and meeting the breeder..

> How can an unborn litter all be sold

My guess is that with the amount of enquiries breeders are getting now, they have far more on the waiting list than puppies that may be born, that they say sold to cease any further enquiries??

I only take deposits after pups born so I know who on my waiting list is definitely going ahead, so that I can pass on surplus enquiries in a timely fashion, so that those who have missed out have a better chance of getting a pup.

With low registrations they may have a long wait, pups are often feast or famine.

My deposit is only ever 10% of fairly modest puppy price. Probably about the cost of fuel, lunch etc for a visit

> My guess is that with the amount of enquiries breeders are getting now, they have far more on the waiting list than puppies that may be born,

Your probably right.

Think 'Over subscribed' would better, or 'waiting list closed' for unborn litters.

Brainless:  paying extra for priority listing> Has anyone heard if the actual fee of £10.95 is being paid?  With a bit of luck it might be boycotted.

Yes, I spoke to someone yesterday who has paid the fee ...

My husband and I decided we really wanted to introduce a dog to our family. We have been talking about it and researching for 18 months. When we are at the right time to welcome a pup, the prices are close are £3k- £4K for a Golden Retriever. It’s so disappointing as I feel we could offer a really great, loving home.

I paid the £10 membership fee as I couldn’t get near to the waiting lists. But I haven’t been successful.

We had in mind we would be paying approximately £2000 for a golden retriever. Does this sound about right or am I miles out??

> <br />We had in mind we would be paying approximately £2000 for a golden retriever. Does this sound about right or am I miles out??

On looking at the average price quoted on the Golden Retriever page here https://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeds/golden-retriever, the average price last year was £1229(to be precise).

Ellen Kristians:  Priority Listing Fee >  All breed prices are rediculous at the moment and I really feel for possible New Owners.  This fee by Champ Dogs was put in place without notifying any member and it is not something I personally feel comfortable with.  I am not a golden retriever breeder but £2000 never mind £4000 sounds absolutely rediculous.  I breed Labrador Retrievers but although health testing is my remit, I have never charged more than £1250 for my KC Reg Puppies and have stopped breeding during the Pandemic as I had hundreds of enquiries from people who wanted a Puppy for all the wrong reasons.  Maybe source a good breeder rather than searching for a puppy on line but please be prepared to wait.  Good Luck!

To late to edit my previous post..I contacted a friend who breeds & does all the tests... she charges £1600

Daeze: Priority Listing Fee: Oh goodness.  I don't have any say on whether it should or shouldn't be charged just not sure a 48 hour window of preview will make any difference.  Sorry to be so negative...the situation is just crazy at the moment,

Thanks everyone that’s really helpful,  we are definitely prepared to wait. It’s good to know that (fingers crossed) we may be able to afford something when we are out of this pandemic.
It looks like paying for priority was just a quick money making scheme!!

£1600 is top end. In normal times ( prior to Covid) goldens were going from £1100 to £1500 dependent on whether it was a family pet (with health tests), working bred dogs, up to dogs regularly shown or worked and doing well (lots of red on the pedigree)

I bought my last golden 7 years ago and she was £900 which was top end then.