We're going to pick up our gorgeous 8-week old Labrador puppy next weekend.

To the best of my knowledge, he's never been in a car before and it's quite a long journey (just under two hours). He's not vaccinated yet, so I'm wary of stopping anywhere in public on the way.

As far as I can see we have four options:

* Sit him on my wife's lap in the back with some towels or an open box (she is aware that she will be weed, vommitted and possibly pooed on!)
* Put him in a car harness on her lap in the back (he's never worn a harness, so wondering if this might be tricky and/or traumatic)
* Put him in a pet carrier that's small enough to go on her lap (could be tricky as he's already quite big!)
* Use a larger crate ... but he would have to be on his own in the boot

What would you recommend? I realise a dog would normally need to go in a crate or a harness, but I'm worried about putting him off either if that first trip home is traumatic. We're planning to crate train, so we don't want him arriving home terrified of enclosed spaces.

Leaving home is a huge stresser for a puppy so I'd personally be doing what I could to make the trip feel as relaxed for the pup as I could. Cuddled on the knee on the back seat is great for bonding and a feeling of security but maybe with a comfy bed next to your wife too in case he finds that more relaxing.  Bit of spray travel Adaptil 15 mins before pup gets in and plenty of toys for the pup to nibble on - maybe a leather glove to wear might be handy it a Lab puppy as they do nip!  The highway code requires dogs to be suitably restrained in a car.  This is more about ensuring that the driver isn't distracted by the dog than the safety of the dog though.  A short lead, clipped to their collar and the car seat could stop the risk of the pup distracting the driver or of flying forward into the drivers space in the event of sudden braking while being less stressful than a new introduction to a harness.  You'll probably find that the pup is excited for a bit and then sleeps most of the way home so you may be able to get him into the harness while he is asleep if that felt safer to clip him to.  You don't have to drive away immediately with your pup, you can sit in the car with him for a while getting to know him and calming him down.  A dog water source is also handy to have with you.  Enjoy your new pup - you'll have him home in no time

Thank you. That sounds like a good compromise.

He almost fell asleep in my arms when we visited the other day, so I do think he'd prefer something where he gets to be with people. Just jealous of my other half getting to hold him for the duration of the trip.

I would be wary of a collar and lead as if the car were to stop suddenly it puts a lot of pressure on the neck . Potentially doing damage
I personally would prefer a soft harness and short lead clipped to seat belt for safety

mine came home on my lap on a train.  (I did have an emergency bag of cleaning up supplies along with water /dish etc)  she slept all the way home

I would never travel a puppy free in a vehicle, a travel crate is far safer than sitting on a knee or on a lead/box.

Don't forget if you brake sharply whatever is loose will go on travelling. A crate attached to a seat belt is a good safe option

Travel the puppy in a crate and if you can, anchor it so if there's an emergency stop, puppy + crate don't fly.   We use our original benching chains attached to the back seat (down) anchors for our Whippet's crate which sits cross ways behind the front seats.     For this first trip home, if you have a car where the back seat splits, that's ideal so somebody can sit alongside the crate to comfort puppy -  although ten to one, once on a motorway especially, the engine note of the car will cause the puppy to doze off.   Take thick towels and a change of bedding so if the puppy empties or vomits (some do) you can do a quick stop to freshen up.    I'd NEVER dream of having the puppy loose, or in a dog seat belt.

Try to arrange to pick up the puppy early, with the breeder giving a minimal meal so there's not much to come out and the puppy will have all day to explore his new surroundings before the first night! .   With our first, he was zonked out after his first day home (to the point I made the mistake of checking on him at arouind 6 am to make sure he was ok!!).  It was the second night when it all kicked off.

If you are worried about him needing to empty during the journey home, you could delay picking him up so his breeder can have one set of vaccination given - although again I don't like this as too often, vets ignore the first set and give two.   Over-vaccinating!!

For the first car journey, there's no way I'd crate a puppy. It's likely the first time they've ever been in a car or a crate before and you risk creating very bad associations with both car and crate, if you shut the puppy in there, alone and terrified, for 2 hours. Believe me, it's not worth months and months of stress trying to undo these associations later. Best just to acknowledge the slight risk, drive extra safely and have the pup on someone's lap.

>Sit him on my wife's lap in the back with some towels or an open box

Yes, this is the best option of those you list. We always have the pup on the front passenger seat on someone's lap, TBH.

And 2 hours isn't a long journey. He might throw up due to car sickness, but he will likely hold his poo and pee.  Try to ensure he's empty before he leaves the breeder though.

Well with the two buy-ins we had after the end of our bloodlines, we must have been lucky because both travelled just fine crated with no after stress re crates.   Isn't it best to travel safe, with all the reassurance available in place  

My husband sat alongside our 9 week old Whippet, who actually curled up and slept for the couple of hours from her breeders home to ours.   Shke was hardly 'alone and terrified!'  Our Basset, who was older - 4 months - likewise travelled well in his crate.

This early trip in their crates, no way affected their view of crates long term (or car travel in general for that matter).   And I was left to be able to concentrate on my driving.

It obviously depends on the puppy, MamaBas, but I think the number of puppies which would scream and be extremely distressed if shut in a crate for 2 hours having just left their litter, far outnumbers those which will just curl up and go to sleep...

The majority of pups I've had, have screamed and cried even whilst being held by someone - simply due to leaving mum and littermates...

I travel on my own so no one to hold puppies.

Mine have always been in a crate on the front seat, archored of course, nice soft bed with heated pad. Never had a puppy scream or be frightened of the vehicle afterwards. Different breeds too as I have transported a good few rescue dogs over the past 20 years or so this way too & no problems

Most of my pups have happily travelled home in a crate either alongside owner with crate on half backseat, or in the back with someone reassuring pup with hand over back seat.

Most of my pups travel much further than 2 hours.

Never ever had a pup struggle or make a fuss leaving, as they have already become firm friends with new owner.

Generally with paperwork to be sorted etc, they have settled at visitors feet.

I have usually sent them off with extra paper, which in an emergency can be replaced.

Pups are like babies or small children, eventually falling asleep duebto car engine and movement.

When we brought River home he travelled in a crate on my knee in the passenger seat. It fit nicely with very little room to move if we had a crash or partner braked hard or whatever, and I had my arms round it the whole time anyway.

He mostly slept during the 2 1/2 hour journey and we didn’t stop at all, I did have a few potential toilet stops planned out and I brought puppy pads so he wouldn’t have to go directly on the floor, but he was fine and didn’t need it. When he woke I’d talk to him and poke my fingers through the bars for him to nibble.

I think it helped that when we visited him I left a T-shirt that I’d slept in with the pups so he was familiar with my smell, and I took some vet bed that the pups had been using home with us in the crate too, as well as a cuddly toy to snuggle. I don’t think he actually realised he was away from mum and siblings until that night.

With a bigger crate I would have secured it on the back seat and sat next to it. I do think if he’d been away from me (like in the boot) it would have been a different story, but being so close was reassuring for him. There’s no way I’d have him loose or on a collar, he was so tiny it wouldn’t have been safe at all.

None of my dogs have had a shorter journey than 6 hours as there are no silken breeders in Scotland, one was 6 hours, one 9 and the other 20 hours, all alone in the boot of the car (between dog guard and tailgate guard, so similar to a huge cage) with me talking to them from the drivers seat, lots of newspapers, a couple of toys and chews and they were all fine, no crying, no vomiting, a couple of pees on puppy pads is all.

As you can see, there are mixed opinions about this!  There are a few things to consider:

1. What the highway code requires of you - which is suitable restraint so that the dog doesn't cause issues for the driver
2. The safety of human travelers in the car - crates, especially metal, (and other items that are inside a car) can cause injuries in the event of an accident
3. The safety of the animal travelling in the car - you will find very few crash tested options that are designed to keep the animal safe in the car in the event of an accident.  Most are designed to meet the requirements of the highway code. These are some options: variocage which collapses in a crash, so that there is no shunting into the passengers in the rear seat in the event of an accident, pupsaver (import only I think though)
4. The stress to the pup of their first journey away from their Mum and siblings.  Some will appear to cope with it and some will appear to experience trauma from it

So it comes down to how you want to manage the risk, which clearly is an individual choice that you are comfortable with and so long as you meet the requirements of the highway code, I think it's up to you.

I tell everyone to travel in a crate, any mess can be sorted when you get home. Have someone sit in the back and the crate in the boot. Safety 1st all the way.

Under 2hrs is not a long journey.
The pup surely has been in a vehicle for a vet check?

>For the first car journey, there's no way I'd crate a puppy.

100% agree with this. Even if a pup has travelled in a car before, being thrown about in a strange-smelling vehicle with nothing familiar will be very frightening. Far better to be held closely on a lap so that bumps and swerves are minimised. The next best is for pup to be wearing a comfy harness attached to the central rear seatbelt, with people either side for reassurance and added protection.

And 2 hours isn't a long journey by any means.

>The pup surely has been in a vehicle for a vet check?

Unlikely to have gone on its own though - it will surely have been in a crate with siblings who'll have provided cushioning and reassurance, in a vehicle that smells of familiar humans. Very different to travelling alone, with no physical support to prevent falling about, with total strangers.

Dear Tor, a new puppy! I'm jealous. I wish someone could bottle that puppy smell. For me it's a crate every time. Never had a problem with 4+ hour journeys taking puppy home, some involving ferry journeys, or afterwards with crate training or car journeys. Important thing is puppy is safe, it may throw up, pee or poo so just bring a bag with cleaning up stuff and a few extra blankets. I had one puppy throw up, all the rest lay down and just slept until we got home. In case you didn't twig pretty much all my dogs have been gundog breeds, labs included, so I wouldn't worry. Bring along a hot water bottle and a flask of hot water, wrap it up well and put it in the crate, puppy will probably snuggle up to that and sleep. Always worked for me. If your car has a 40/60 back seat that folds down you could strap the crate in so your wife could sit in the back and puppy secure in crate beside her.

> being thrown about in a strange-smelling vehicle with nothing familiar will be very frightening.

They're certainly not thrown about with my driving, a tiny puppy in a huge boot will be able to sleep, wander around, pee, play, whatever while I'm driving

I am a professional driver but anyone can master smooth driving, reading the road ahead, planning acceleration and braking points before you get to them, anticipating other road users actions, reducing speed before and accelerating out of corners so keeping speed up and reducing g force etc. If you are going to drive like a boy racer, or a binary driver - two speeds stop and go then yes, you'll probably need someone with you to hold the pup, preferably someone who doesn't get car sick themselves

Never had anyone stopping without warning in front of you?? Even as an advanced driver you cannot forsee every eventuality no matter how profession or experienced you are. I had a small lorry come out of a side road with the traffic lights at Green for me & T boned me. My dogs where not thrown around as they were in their crates snuggled into their beds. Had there been a puppy in the boot or on a lap they certainly would have been tossed around. The impact wrote off the car as the police assess the speed of the lorry as being in excess of 40 mph!!

JG that is true but the comment I thought said never been in a vehicle before hence why I mentioned a vet check up before they go to their new homes.

> If your car has a 40/60 back seat that folds down you could strap the crate in so your wife could sit in the back and puppy secure in crate beside her.

THIS is exactly what we did with our Whippet @ 9 weeks, except after my husband's stroke, I do all the driving.

My Basset, 4 months and clearly used to being crated, was in his big crate at the rear of the car with my then 1 year old Whippet in her crate cross-wise behind the front seats.  We had a long journey, from Tewksbury down to the N.Cornwall coast.   We did one stop in a service area to see if he'd pee (no way thank you) he'd have nothing of that.     He did pee once off the motorway but we had a change of vetbed with us.   So we just stopped and did a change.   

Me too would love a new puppy .....

ps   I'm loving this thread with all the differing ideas.   I have to admit, pretty much all my puppy buyers went off with their new puppies being cuddled in the back of the car with not a crate in sight.    Hum.

Interesting that new puppy smell and stroke have been mentioned in the last few posts.

River came home 10 months after my own stroke, and I absolutely couldn’t stand the smell of his breath. Everyone else said it was fine, his mouth was clean, I even had the vet check him multiple times and there was nothing.

But to me it smelled like something had pooed itself to death in there, I would literally gag every time I put my face near his.

Of course, it turned out it was just an after effect of the stroke, my brain just couldn’t process that particular scent. His body smell? Sweet. Mouth smell? Disgusting. It’s fine now, not sure if I’ve got better or his breath has changed or both.

>They're certainly not thrown about with my driving, a tiny puppy in a huge boot will be able to sleep, wander around, pee, play, whatever while I'm driving

I imagine that if a dog or a child suddenly appeared in the road in front of you, you would apply the brakes to stop as quickly as you could. Even at 15 miles an hour that is enough to knock a puppy off its feet, and is why farm livestock being transported has to be squashed in tightly to prevent them moving around and being injured in just such a scenario.

> I imagine that if a dog or a child suddenly appeared in the road in front of you, you would apply the brakes to stop as quickly as you could

A good driver sees the dog or child before they run on the road and is already slowing just in case. Most puppy transport is of course on motorways where you can see hazards far in advance.

I drive a lot with my dogs, including the length of the country and to Europe to shows, I've never had to do an emergency stop once with them in the car.

>A good driver sees the dog or child before they run on the road and is already slowing just in case.

LOL! Driving through towns, with cars parked on both sides of the street, gives ample opportunity for children, dogs, cats and so on to suddenly dash into the road from between parked cars. That's why so many cats sadly end up as roadkill! Motorists can be driving carefully well within the speed limit and still have to do sudden braking which is enough to dislodge shopping on the back seat! No way would a baby puppy lose in a crate stay on its feet.

A lot of the journey might well be on the motorway, but that's not where breeders and new owners live. It's the bits at either end of the journey that have the most hazards.

> A good driver sees the dog or child before they run on the road and is already slowing just in case.

If only it were that easy!  This good driver killed a squirrel a few weeks ago, because it wasn't in sight until it was right in front of my wheel.  And a few years ago, I ran over a huge dog, who ran out suddenly from behind a parked car.  There were 3 or 4 cars in a row there and she came out behind te last.  She'd escaped her garden, so no owner walking to suggest there might be a dog present.  I wasn't going quickly luckily for her as I was heading towards a junction, and she was fine.  Just shaken up, despite flipping over several times and hitting a parked car when she bounced off mine.  But there is absolutely no way I could have avoided her.

I would much rather the increased risk of (whatever?) involved in having someone hold the puppy for one car journey, than the increased risk of behavioural problems involving crating, alone training, and car rides forevermore, for the puppy.

Heck, if you stay home and never drive at all, you will be 100% safe.

You can't eliminate all risks, you can only assess their likelihood and go from there. For me, the risk of something happening in the car on the ONE journey I make to pick a puppy up, is much less than the risk of that puppy developing a fear of cars/crates if I crate them.

My logic was that I can work on a fear of crates/cars. I can’t fix a fatal injury.

For what it’s worth River was already used to crates/pens, and we tired him out with a play session before we got in the car so he’d sleep.

I was probably extra cautious as well, with him being a fine-boned toy breed. When I first saw him at 5 weeks I was almost scared to breathe too hard, he seemed so tiny compared to my previous Labrador!

I went to Dundee on my own, friend pulled out day before health issues.

Old girl in cage in boot box full of papers, puppy pads, kitchen roll, baby wipes and carrier bags and a small cage that fits on my back seat that the seat belt fits around.

Going up four hours one stop

Coming home nearer seven traffic was awful coming around Edinburgh doing 20 in a 70 area luckily he traveled well apart from some vocal episodes when he was really bad I stopped asap put a leader on him and let him have a break.

Yes he was fully jabbed when I got him

> still have to do sudden braking which is enough to dislodge shopping on the back seat!

Gosh yes if your shopping is flying around while you're driving a puppy should probably be in some sort of crash proof, padded crate

> I would much rather the increased risk of (whatever?) involved in having someone hold the puppy for one car journey, than the increased risk of behavioural problems involving crating, alone training, and car rides forevermore, for the puppy.

This is what I'm leaning towards. It was also what the breeder recommended.

We're taking our five-year old along when we go to pick the dog up, so his car seat will occupy one of the rear seats. He's brilliant with dogs as five-year old's go, but not qualified to be in charge of one, so my wife needs to sit in the back too. Theoretically, they could both sit on the larger side of the 60/40 split seats and fold down the other bit, but I don't think that would leave enough space to place the travel crate next to them (it certainly wouldn't fit in the rear seat area without the seat back folded). We looked at borrowing a pet carrier, but the ones we could find looked too small for him to sit up or turn around inside, and I think they'd be of limited benefit in a crash unless they can be anchored down.

There is obviously an element of risk any time you drive on the roads, but at a time when simply being breathed on could kill you, I think that's a relative thing. :-)

I think we'll rig up the travel crate in the boot (probably the only place it'll fit with three of us in the car) and use that as a last resort if he refuses to go to sleep on my wife's lap.

>Gosh yes if your shopping is flying around while you're driving a puppy should probably be in some sort of crash proof, padded crate

Sliding off the back seat is hardly "flying around"

Even with the best bus driver in the world, standing passengers, and those moving towards the exit doors as they approach their stop, need to hold on the hand rails (provided for this very reason) to prevent falling over. I doubt if anyone in the history of the public transport (including the ultra-smooth underground trains) has managed to remain standing steadily, without holding on to anything for support, for the duration of their journey.

Asking the Breeder their advice is probably the best bet re loose or crate.  Most reputable Breeders provide a blanket & a familiar toy on date of collection and will advise a crate in the boot. No rattling around. no unusual smells  and as long as the journey involves 'drink & clean up' stops every 2 hours, Puppy will be absolutely fine.

Tor@  Just a wee note:  No Puppy should leave the Breeder without their 1st vaccination.  Perhaps you should insist even if they ask you to pay for this if not part of your signed contract.
All of my Puppies are Vet Checked, Microchipped and have received their 1st vaccination before collection.

The OP has had the recommendation from the breeder, if you read a recent answer they gave.

> No Puppy should leave the Breeder without their 1st vaccination.

That is not true, a puppy can and often does leave to new homes without a 1st vaccination. You may do this but it is your choice to do so. Some vets will start vaccinations again, if the 1st one isn't the same brand as one they use!!

> Just a wee note:  No Puppy should leave the Breeder without their 1st vaccination.  Perhaps you should insist even if they ask you to pay for this if not part of your signed contract.

You know what, it rather took me aback too when they said the puppies would come without vaccination. However, the breeder's logic was that each vet will have their own approach and it makes more sense to stick with a particular vaccination regime from day one. It does appear to be a contentious topic, but I did a bit of Googling and found plenty of reputable breeders - including some in a thread on here - who supported that idea. Either way, there's not a great deal I can do about it now with 48 hours until we collect the dog.

While we're on the subject of contentious topics... we are getting the fabled "mum's blanket" but I spoke to a friend whose breeder is a former Crufts champion and swears that they actually make puppies more anxious as there's the smell of mum but no sign of her. Not wishing to stir, but what are people's thoughts on that? From what I can see, the bulk of opinion seems to support the blanket, so I think that's what we'll be doing.

> <br />You know what, it rather took me aback too when they said the puppies would come without vaccination.

see my previous post

It is quite common and imo better that all vaccines are done by your own vet.not.the breeder
This prevents a number of problems  . One  , your vet starting whole programme again , heard of that a number of times so pup gets over vaccinated  or .2 pup having vaccines from different companies this isn't advised or 3  the new owner having to find a vet that uses  the same vaccine  vaccine manufacturer as.the breeders not always easy to do

None of.mine have ever been vaccinated before.coming home to me and I wouldn't want it any other way .

mine have always had a bit of blanket or bed to come home  dont know.if.ot has helped but cant say I've had any particular issues with it either way .makes sense to me

Indeed. I'm new to puppy ownership, and I think back when my parents last had a puppy it was still unusual for them to be released unvaccinated, so I was surprised. But when I looked into it there seemed to be plenty of credible breeders who supported that idea (including our own, I should add, they're a well-established KC-registered working gundog breeder and I can vouch for the happiness and the condition of the dogs we saw when we were there).

breeder sounds very sensible to me

As many have said it is quite common for puppies to go to new homes unvaccinated to avoid the risk of over vaccinating as many vets just start again even if they use the same brand.

Edited to add: think I’ve replied to the wrong person sorry!

Tor@: No vaccination by the Breeder in my book is an excuse to spend less on the Puppy's future. When your Puppy is collected he or she should have a vaccination record card which includes printed attached microchip number, the vet details who administered the product used with batch no. confirmed) signed and dated.  Every Vet whether Nobivac L4 or L2 is used should record when the next part of the course should be given....no overdosing, no re starting of courses or indeed any arguement by the new vet that they have to start charging the new owner any more money.  Good Luck with your new addition - sure it will be great!!!

I have never acquired a "baby"puppy that had had a vaccination in over 60 years.

The immune system of puppies under 10 weeks of age will very likely still have maternal antibodies in it, which it's proven to seriously reduce any alleged protection the vaccine is supposed to give.

Far better to wait until 10 weeks, titre test  & vaccine accordingly, this is the scientifically based way

But not every vet uses Nobivac DHP and L2/4 - if the new vet differs in brand then they will start again (some will even if they use the same brand) and as such the puppy will be over vaccinated which in itself has risks. I ask my buyers to find out what their vet uses and if it is the same I will happily do the first ones for them. If not I recommend they get the first ones done when they take their pup to their vet within the first couple of days.

It is not difficult to understand how this is a better option.

Completely agree Ann. Perfectly worded. I would be happy for this to happen with any of my pups. I do feel a lot of buyers like the reassurance that it has been done though so maybe that is why it happens more nowadays

Yes I agree as well Ann. I think a lot of new owners prefer to delay first vaccines due to mothers immunity which gives early protection and can negate the vaccines early on

Tor@  It's amazing but one of my Puppies actually came back to visit 6 months after going to his new home and still had a piece of the blanket in his bed!!! He didn't recognise his Mum but retrieved that piece of blanket from his owners waste bin twice. (some humans have a comforter into adulthood - maybe explains that little bit of blanket being important bless)