hi there breeders looking for advice on how to deal with a breeder who refuses to lift the endorsment

The dog is within breeding age (aged 3 and wont be bred from until at least next year)
The dog is of proper bred standard has been to crufts and we plan on on having 1 litter its simply cos we love her temperament
She doesn't need hip scoring we are told, she has had eye testing, pra/fn/ams/aon as per kennel club

We have written to the breeder multiple times to request removal of the 2 endorsments (in the contract of sale it did say she would remove them once necessary tests were done and she now blocked us and refuses to answer emails.

We didn't sign anything acknowledging the endorsment and my husband who is the registered owner wasnt informed although it is mentioned on tje contract of sale which I signed not my husband who is the owner

Mainly after advice on what we can do as we would really like to breed from her and dont understand the attitude of the breeder we have fulfilled our end of the deal and ensured she is perfectly healthy of breed standard great personality etc

> We didn't sign anything acknowledging the endorsment and my husband who is the registered owner wasnt informed although it is mentioned on tje contract of sale which I signed not my husband who is the owner

But you did, as you stated, you signed the contract of sale, so that is acknowledging the terms.

Yes i signed it but im not the registered dog owner anyway my husband is, and regulation b12 of kennel club states you need a separate signed document acknowledging the new owner knows about and accepts the endorsment not just on a contract of sale so legally that wouldn't stand

That wasn't what I was asking at any rate. My question is what to do about a breeder who despite us fulfilling the terms requested ignores all requests to lift endorsment ie how this would usually be resolved if anyone has experienced this before and how they resolved it

How do you know your bitch's hip & elbow status without being scored? There is no KC recognised breed that has no cases of HD or ED & ergo all breeding dogs/bitches should be scored

If your husband is the owner why did you sign?

Thats fine we can book it in if its needed we were initially advised by the breeder it wasn't needed as its for larger breeds

Assuming she passes that one like all the other tests what advice would you give given the breeder completely blocking us and refusing to consider lifting it?

"Assuming she passes that one like all the other tests "

Your bitch won't "pass" HD/ED scoring. Scoring doesn't work like. Unfortunately you cannot assume that she will have acceptable scores. HD/ED certainly isn't restrict to large dogs, even very small toy breeds can be badly affected.

Why did you sign the contract if you don't own the dog?  Are you trying to use the argument that because your husband didn't sign, he isnt/wasn't aware of the endorsements? That would fall on deaf ears at the KC I think.

I signed the contract cos the breeder asked me to simply. No i understand hip scoring isnt a pass or fail but there is a accepted benchmark and presuming she gets a good enough score she meets the criteria. As for kc I think they wouldn't intervene also, like you said its in the contract and signed. I'm mainly asking if there are any other options

Unfortunately for whatever reason the breeder seems to have decided they are not going to lift the endorsements and without any conversation you have no way of knowing the whys and wherefores. As you did sign the contract which included the endorsements then the KC will not intervene so  there are no other options to have the endorsements lifted.

> Thats fine we can book it in if its needed we were initially advised by the breeder it wasn't needed as its for larger breeds

What breed is she? Many non-large breeds have hips as a recommended tests.
Does this mean you have discussed breeding with the breeder before? If so it seems strange they would now not be open to it, has something changed between the two of you?

>Yes i signed it but im not the registered dog owner anyway my husband is, and regulation b12 of kennel club states you need a separate signed document acknowledging the new owner knows about and accepts the endorsment not just on a contract of sale so legally that wouldn't stand.

Yes you are correct that the kc advise breeders to have the endorsements acceptance signed separately. If you signed the contract I would guess that means you were the buyer as the contract was between you and the breeder, so the dog being registered in your husband's name is irrelevant as the breeder only needs to notify the person they deal with of the endorsements which it seems you knew about? Without it being mentioned in the contract it would be a case of he said she said and the kc would me more likely to lift, as it was in there and you signed albeit not separately signed I'd guess it would come down to the decision of the kc if they intervened or not.

Did the breeder specify, in writing, what would be required to lift the endorsement? If she did and you have met those requirements then the thing to do would be to send copies of all necessary paperwork to the KC, asking for them to lift the endorsement.

She just specified in the contract of sale about meeting the "breed standard" which seems vague as that can mean different things to different people. The dog has been shown and placed at crufts though so to me that says she meets breed standard? Then also said the various tests needed doing which we have done. Seems like we have hit a dead end though with the breeder ignoring us

It doesn't have to be a seperate document, just must be signed and copy kept.

I have always included it prominently in contract of sale. I state that Health testing with acceptable results, and abiding by our breed clubs code of ethics re breeding as conditions for lifting.

Endorsements stay, even when the dog changes hands. It's the person the breeder sold to, not whose name the dog was registered with after.

Quote: "In order to comply with the Kennel Club rules on placing endorsements, the KC requires that the dog be in the physical possession of the endorser and that they obtain a written agreement, ideally in the form of a private contract, signed by the new owner to acknowledge that they have been informed that an endorsement ..."

Armymansam I'm sorry you've been met with such suspicion here.

If you have done everything specified in the contract which means the endorsements should be lifted, and you've tried to contact the breeder to request they are lifted...

Are you sure the breeder hasn't changed address/phone number/email and has received your requests?

If you're sure they have received them and are ignoring them, then give the KC a call and ask who you can send all the evidence to, for a decision to be made. Then send in everything you have and itemise the way you think what you've done meets the requirements... The KC will make a decision. And by the way, do let us know what the result is.

I have had many messages end up in Spam.

I moved house last year after over 30 years.

Does your breeder have a website. I would certainly rely on mine for continuity of contact with all my puppy buyers, who don't stay in touch regularly, as it's easy too loose touch by both parties.

As you have been showing, are you a member if your breed club, could they help advise, amazing what a bit if peer pressure can achieve.

What does it say in the contract? You are a couple so it doesn't really matter who is named on the kc papers and registered with.

I'm sorry for you IF you have done everything required to have the endorsement lifted.  I'm a bit twitchy about lifting an endorsement to be honest although the breeder who endorsed the puppy should at least have told you WHY she isn't prepared to lift the endorsement.   You say you went to Crufts with her which presumably means she qualified to be shown there at some point and would show some degree of quality. 

Anyhow, I think under the circumstances, if the breeder won't now respond to you, you should take this to the KC much as all too often, in my opinion, they will lift an endorsement which as a retired breeder who endorsed all immature puppies, I don't like.   Yes, conforming to a Breed Standard can be subjective - what conforms to one person, might be the opposite to another.   If I put an endorsement on a puppy, in my opinion again, only I should be the one to lift it.

I'd also say I'd like to have the breeder's involvement re breeding her - if only for advice re which stud dog would be good for her.

Good luck.

Without knowing the breed it's impossible to say what health tests she requires (both KC recommendations and the breed)

As she has now 'blocked' you and refusing to answer emails, I would double check your contract and then write to her asking what she would require to lift the endorsement.

Messages and emails are not really the most professional way to deal with important issues especially as your relationship is now not so good

Looking at the tests mentioned in the original post would possible suggest Cocker Spaniel

When I have sold puppies I have always endorsed them. If the new owners came to me asking for a pet then my sales/endorsement contract clearly states that if they are buying this puppy as a pet then it will stay a pet as far as I am concerned. If the owners were to start showing the dog with a reasonable degree of success only then would I consider lifting these endorsements providing health testing is done and I am satisfied with choice of mate. My explanation is that there is no shortage of dogs being bred so if someone has a pet I am not going to allow them to churn out a litter just because they feel like it.

I wonder if the breeder gave a reason for not lifting restrictions.