Hi
I have a lab 4yrs from puppy and bulldog 7yrs from 6months old, both castrated.

Over the last 2yrs there has been the odd fight, started by the lab trigger was food.

Last 12 months, the lab has been attacking maybe once a month causing puncher wounds and in 3 cases, visits to the vet for stitches for the bulldog.

Weird thing is, 99% of the time they are fine together, they play, sleep on sofa etc, they even take tennis balls from each others mouths, lab will lay on back and bulldog will gently take ball from him and vice versa, tug of war etc, submissive with each other.

The fights had always been in front of a family member, however last 2 have been unseen, one was over a mouse we think, other just passing each other on the landing, caught the tail end of it and lab was just walking away wagging tail, leaving bulldog with 4 puncher wounds and bleeding.

They are now separated and have been for nearly a week, lab is pining for bulldog but we can't trust him.

However the lab seem much more chilled in the house, better body language, and generally a calmer dog(that being said he's always been an old dog, since a puppy has NEVER chewed, house trained from 9 weeks old, would rather watch the bulldog play fetch than bother chasing a ball, very lazy for a lab.
He's been tested for hypothyroidism, clear.
Occasionally lead reactive, but will happily play with other dogs on beach etc.

At the point of having to re-home as it's not fair on either dog to split being with us all doing normal family things indoors, TV etc.

How do you train or positive reinforce their friendship or sorts when there is no.obvious trigger for the arguements.
Also there are no warning, lab doesn't growl, show teeth, bark, hackles, occasionally ears back is only sign.

The bulldog used to put up a fight/defend and now just takes it as such and it's awful. 50kg Vs 22kg dogs and he's an old dog at 7yrs.

Both been to training, had residential with a ex police dog handler/behaviourist and they couldn't find a problem, only that lab can be a little nervous occasionally.

It seems that lab is much happier as a only dog, but he's the aggressor, I just can't bring myself to re-home him, one because he's family and a fantastic dog alone and 2, what happens if I rehome and he turns on a dog or person and the worst happens.

Or should I rehome, as he is a fantastic dog and alone will make a brilliant rescue dog.

Long rant... I know, but just can't see how to train it out of him.

Any ideas welcome, I don't want to be that type of owner that gives up, he's part of the family.

I had a situation where I'd kept another male, from an all-male litter, and by the time he reached around 2 years, he started challenging his older uncle.  The younger dog hadn't been used at stud, but his uncle had.  I tried all I could think of to stop this, including putting them together in our outside pen (so if it all kicked off, I could use a hose to separate them) telling them to sort themselves out!   They did nothing in the pen and in fact lay together at the gate, waiting for me to let them out again.   Later in the day - another fight

As these fights were getting increasingly more serious, eventually I made the very difficult decision to find a good home for the younger boy.  This isn't something I normally did - once kept, they stayed.  I found a super home for him, with two bitches of the same breed and off he want - as usual, without a backward look.   Me left weeping at the kerb, him off for his new life.   We went to see him a few months on to make sure he was ok.   He acknowledged us, briefly, and went back to what he had been doing.   I co-owned him at first but as it was going so well, I signed him over to his new owner.   Incidentally I made no charge for him.   I just had to get him out of there so peace could return to our small pack.  Mine wasn't a naturally aggressive breed - and we had another male there too.  He never went for him.

If it's getting serious, to the point of causing injury, I'm afraid you may have to do the same.  Surely you can't live with them, separated.

Oh and by the way, I had a friend who bought litter brothers of my main breed.   Indoors if one got up the other was up and a fight happened.   When out on exercise they were perfectly fine together.  How she lived with them I don't know    although I think with them, it was more noise than injury.

Thanks for the reply, think it's a case of I know what I need to do, but I've never been a person to re-home and wanting other opinions I suppose, as I personally don't want to fail and I don't want to fail either of the dogs, the lab is so affectionate.. but he's not a one person dog, if he's ever kennelled, on collection its a quick hello and off he goes again to play, and he doesn't have a favourite person in the family, he spreads the love around!
If anything it's all about me and becoming a person that rehomes a family pet.

You may not be past the point of no return, it may be worth investing in a good behaviourist (not a dog trainer). I’m not sure of all of the reputable organisations but COAPE and APBC are worth a look. No one who advises alpha nonsense or being pack leader. I think you need someone with eyes on them rather than trying to sort it via a forum, since you could easily make things worse by handling it wrong.

Having said that, there is no shame in rehoming, and they are decent bites if they require stitching, so it’s a perfectly reasonable solution. One that’s hard to make, but one that’s valid and respectable. Breed specific rescue would be the way to go if you do decide to. It sounds like your labrador would do just fine elsewhere, as hard as that is for you to think about I’m sure. I hope you find a solution that works for you all anyway.

It's not failing Murphy, it's recognising a situation that may never be stopped.   Obviously I hope it can be, for your sake, but failure would be to allow this situation to continue

I just had to tell you our young dog in question, was called ....... MURPHY!!! 

Thanks all.

This is the problem, as 99.9% of the time they are ok together, and it could be managed if the lab had any less discreet tells, that's the problem, there aren't any typical dog social cues, goes from nothing to locked on and blood within milliseconds and prizing the lab off him, I'm not a novice, had labs all my life and at one point 3 bitches together for a decade or more.
The bulldog has probably only got a few years left in him, but I can't see a solution that is fair on both.

I'm talking with a behaviourist, problem is they play nice, well until they don't!!!

Both need to be assessed in the home and running through daily routines because it could be you have missed the body language on either of them. It could be the Bulldog is giving off language you are missing and the Lab is retaliating. So many things it could be that only someone with proper behavioural qualifications could say and no one can even 2nd guess without witnessing the dogs in your home.
In the mean time baby gates are vital.
I had 2 males fighting for over a year, had 2 different behaviourists in, the 2nd saw that the youngest who was the instigator in all fights with the other retaliating was resource guarding me.. He couldn't even tolerate seeing this dog when I was in the home through a glass door. For their mental health and wellbeing I had to rehome, the stress in them was too much. Don't get me wrong it was hard but I was living with family who weren't understanding and these 2 were both entire. I tried suprelorin too. The family also had an entire male who was never involved and kept out of the way, the instigator wouldn't tolerate him either and went bananas at seeing a friends male puppy come into the home.

He went to live with a couple and a female dog which he was fine with and lived a harmonious life with them

I have had multiple dogs, up to 6 with no issues for nearly 20 years, and then I didn't.

A younger bitch went up in the pack, and all but her Aunt accepted it.

From then for the next 4 years we had constant spats. Luckily rarely more than a nicked nose, but a lot of unhappiness all round.

The Aunts daughter got very down over it, and for her own good was rehomed with one of my owners who had lost her oldie from me.

I hoped as Aunty got old, and niece more mature, things would calm down, sadly when they were 11 and 7, things were no better and the other dogs were constantly on edge.

So when a good home with an older decades long breed owner came up, I homed the bossy bitch.

It was amazing how the now 3 remaining dogs were so much happier.

So from someone who never rehomed I did so twice in three years.

Thanks Brainless, I know heart of hearts rehoming will be best for both, the lab this week since being lone dog in the house (bulldog has become office dog to separate them) has completely changed him, ears forward always, and just a more relaxed body language.
Ultimately the post was for my comfort I think, I'm in talks with a rehomer it's just actually doing it and saying goodbye to the lab, which I'm having trouble with.

I know, I miss both the girls, but know they are both happier as spoilt only dogs.

I have had dogs that would not be happy without canine company, but you do get individuals who just are not good in multidog households.

Exactly, I know it could probably be trained out of him, but it'll ultimately repress a personality trait on both dogs and and will spend my life not completely trusting it, like any dog that's 'trained' to repress an aggression issue.
Couldn't live with myself if he fatally injured the bulldog, and the consequences for the lab.
So frustrating, makes me feel like a jobs worth dog owner, especially with all these lockdown puppies that'll all end in tears once life starts up again.

It's really sad but sometimes rehoming is best. Think of the quality of life for the bulldog - he never knows when he's going to get attacked and end up with puncture wounds. Living like that must be incredibly stressful. And the Lab must be stressed to feel the need to escalate things to that extent.

Your options are either to pretty much permanently divide the house up or to rehome one of them. I usually suggest people rehome the 'easier' or non-reactive dog in these situations, because it is easier to find a home for that dog. The Lab needs to be an only-dog. He might be ok with a female dog, but it's kinda not worth the risk to find out...

The OP mentioned first episode over food, another over a mouse. You need a good behaviourist to assess and go through exclusions. This could be dog to dog resource guarding, bearing in mind RG can encompass food, objects, space, another animal or owner, some cases involve all categories. Medical factors would also need to be excluded and thorough assessment of both dogs.

Problem is, only the RG dog knows what they are guarding in any given moment, so really needs expert input. Go for ABTC (which includes APBC) behaviourist, COAPE is also good. In terms of rehoming, it is probably wise to have a sense of what is going on before going that route. 

Good luck.

IMDT is good too.

Murphy123/freelancerukuk< Male on Male fighing.  I have a rescue Spaniel/Border Collie cross who is now 6yrs old.  He is 'top dog' so to speak. plays happily with all the other dogs and shares toys & space with (male & female) however, put any kind of food down and he would literally fight to the death.  If there is a girl on heat even several miles away he will then become the aggresor to any male.  I haven't 'cured' this behaviour as such but by feeding seperately and building side by side runs where I can be in one run with him and bars between the other male, I have been able to encourage play & tug of war between them without any fighting. freelancerukuk:  Could you explain APBC & COAPE please & thanks?