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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / How close is too close
- By 2912marley [gb] Date 08.09.20 17:33 UTC
I currently have a male dog who’s grandfather is (max ) we are looking to get a female and potentially start breeding, however we have been told the litter we were due to buy from the father to the pups is my dogs grandad (max )

Would this be classed as too close for breeding or classed as line breeding??
- By JoStockbridge [gb] Date 08.09.20 19:26 UTC Upvotes 1
So one of your male's parents is half sibling to the bitch puppy, so a half aunt nephew breeding.
The KC will allow it but for me if would be to close although I know people who would do it, so i guess it comes down to personal opinion.
- By Goldmali Date 08.09.20 19:55 UTC Upvotes 8
Whether it is too close or not depends on how much knowledge you have of both pedigrees. If you have in depth details about health (not just what can be tested for), longevity, temperament, type etc, then you can make a decision based on that. If you only know the names on the pedigrees and nothing else except maybe health tests, then I wouldn't do such a mating as you do not know what can be carried unseen.
- By chaumsong Date 08.09.20 23:03 UTC Upvotes 6
Is this a very rare breed that you would need to buy a bitch for your dog? If not then whether they were too close or not I wouldn't buy her at all. It's really difficult keeping entire male and female dogs in the same house, when the bitch is in season your dog will most likely howl, refuse to eat, maybe pee (scent mark) in the house and turn into a gibbering wreck that doesn't recognise you. Your bitch puppy may have 3 or 4 seasons before you can breed from her, depending on breed and age of health tests etc, it's just not worth that hassle unless you have a very rare breed.

Far better to either prove your dog in your chosen field, showing, working, whatever and have all the health tests done then hope someone asks to use him and you can have a pup back. Or you could go back to his breeder and get another male puppy from them, or a male from this litter with similar lines?
- By onetwothreefour Date 08.09.20 23:25 UTC Upvotes 3
You don't really know what a dog is going to turn out like until they are older, so it is a real risk to purchase two dogs you plan to breed together - the chances of them ending up being the best match for each other and for the qualities you're looking for, are pretty much zero.

That is why most responsible breeders choose an outside stud dog - they can then use any dog they can get to, and they can make that decision just a few months before a planned breeding instead of years before... Jeeze, you could buy the dog and he could have a retained testicle or a fault which means he's just not a breeding prospect at all, whatever the genetics are.
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 09.09.20 09:36 UTC
You do need to have an indepth knowledge of as many of the dogs in both pedigrees, especially the 'common' ones, as possible.  Or at least have the ability to talk to more experienced fellow breeders.    I would say having done it all the wrong way round, our first, male, hound was just a pet but we eventually felt we'd like to have something better to show so bought another male puppy.   After that it developed into wanting something we'd bred ourselves to show rather than show what others had bred.    We went for a half sister of our second hound, same sire but completely different dams intending to mate her eventually, to him. 

However by the time our bitch was old enough to think about breeding, and having taken her Championship title (by that time out in Canada), we'd learnt a thing or two and decided our second male wasn't the right dog for her and went elsewhere albeit to an American dog who had a line back to a British-bred bitch who'd been exported to the States. 

This might happen with your plans!!

I since mainly had to breed out (using our UK stock out in Canada which meant factoring in the slightly different type out there) although at one point, feeling the need to see where our breeding ideas had gone, I did two matings, one aunt to younger nephew and then uncle to younger niece.   Nephew and niece being littermates.  At that time knowing a lot more about all the various lines, than I did early days.   Nothing sinister appeared but I went out again after those matings.
- By JAY15 [gb] Date 12.09.20 17:23 UTC Upvotes 1
Ours is a numerically small breed. Seven years ago I bought in a carefully chosen foundation bitch, niece to my dog--I'd waited years for her--and then when the time came I mated her to a (to all intents and purposes) completely unrelated foreign dog who excelled in the ring and field. I kept a dog and bitch from that litter and mated her back to my dog (her great uncle), keeping a bitch back. I also finally dared to mate my foundation bitch back to her uncle and kept back a super young dog. I have just mated the young bitch, now 3, to a cousin (sired by her dam's sibling)--but I know the pedigree/health status etc well.

I did this because I felt I'd never be able to buy in a puppy of the quality I want, and because I was ready to try to put my ideas to the test. I live on my own so a mixed household of 8 dogs (5 entire dogs and three bitches, one of whom is now spayed) is not that difficult to manage, but with some breeds I imagine it would be hellish during seasons. If you have a really good dog then by all means buy a bitch in, but choose wisely, be prepared for a long wait and possible disappointment. With luck you will get the puppy you want to establish a quality line and all your hard work will have been worth it.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / How close is too close

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