Hello,

I am on the waiting list for a puppy that is due in July. Coronavirus aside, with modern technology including video calls and messaging is it always necessary to view a pup in person before buying?

I ask because I know viewing a pup is the normal etiquette, however I am a 10 hour round trip from my breeder. I have not driven a car for four years and was planning on renting a car and going with a friend on the day I am due to pick up the pup but would not be comfortable driving such a long distance alone just to view a pup when I can get pictures and videos. 

Will the breeder look down on me if I say no to viewing the pups in person?

Also just to be clear, I know a big reason to view the litter before buying is to check the breeder and condition of the puppies. However, this breeder is a KC assured; the sire of the litter placed 2nd in his breed at Crufts last year and is also the sire of my 2 year old dog. My parents also bought a dog from them 15 years ago.

Thanks in advance!

The most important reason for you to visit before taking a pup home, from the breeders perspective, is to vet you. It's much easier to read people in person, see how they interact with pups and adult dogs and decide if you want a (hopefully long) relationship with them. It's up to the breeder if they think this is essential, most good breeders would think it was.

I've bought several pups without visiting first, but I've known the breeders for ages, sometimes decades, mutual trust was already well established. I've seen photos of the pups since birth and spoken to the breeders often on the phone. Then both parties were happy with only one long journey to collect pup.

So, basically, it depends on the breeder if they want you to visit first, and I think I probably would judge them if they didn't

Obviously this is assuming the lockdown is over before the pups are born.

Thanks chaumsong for the advice from a breeders perspective, it’s much appreciated!

I do of course understand why the breeder want want to meet me. If I sense the breeder definitely wants me to view I will do so. As mentioned in the original post I do have experience with this breeder. My 2 year old dog is the half sibling of the expected litter and I grew up with a dog they bred as a child, I’ve just never met them in person.

I just get a bit freaked out at the thought of driving for so long alone!

Would a train be possible to alleviate that stress ?
You could then rent the car and go with a friend for pocl up .of course it will also depend on this Corona as to wajt us safe ,allowed and practical
Hopefully by July we shall.be in a better position

Unless I knew the breeder, perhaps not so much  (need to see the puppy first).  My last buy-in (and he will be my last) was bought from somebody I'd known in the breed for as long as I'd been around, for his bloodlines and also they sent me a ton of videos before I said yes.  He was 4 months when we bought him.   We still met up, roughly half way between them and us to take the puppy and at that time, I could have said no (well in theory!!).

However best practice is to see mum with her puppies, meet the breeders and see their set-up before buying.   Always.   And as suggested, it's as important for you, as for the breeder to meet you.

If you know the breeder, it's not as vital to do a preliminary viewing.    When you go visit /to collect the puppy, could you do as we did and go up the day before, staying overnight so you can do the busines and bring the puppy home starting early?

Could you get public transport to view them assuming the lockdown has been relaxed? Collecting by car yes i would do that.
Not many breeders will go down the line of 1st meeting and allowing a pup to go at the same time.
Really no pup should be picked up whilst in lockdown because it isn't deemed an essential journey.

I would also as a buyer want to be sure this litter is right. You want to see how the pups are raised and that you have no concerns and also the mothers temperament is right too.

If I knew of the breeder, saw them at shows, had seen their dogs then a visit from my point of view wouldn't be necessary however if I didn't know of them then for my own peace of mind I would visit.  I would want to meet the breeder and I would want to meet the Mum.  This dog will hopefully be with you for at least the next 10 years or so and I could not stand the heartbreak of risking having a puppy that had not been bred with the utmost care for its health and wellbeing.  I also did 10 hour journeys visiting a puppy and breeder on the Isle of Wight but it was worth it for that peace of mind.  So however logistically difficult, I would put myself out to do the visit.

I live in quite a remote location and I don't ask or expect buyers who are not local, to visit with us at any point prior to collecting their pup. 

However, I do want them to collect the pup in person - and I do want to do a Skype or Zoom call with them to be able to see them in person and get a better sense of them than I can just hearing their voice on a phone...

For pups that I've bought, I've tried to go with what the breeder wants.  If they have been happy just to talk on the phone and haven't asked us to visit or implied we should, then I don't.  If they say they want to meet us, then I go to the effort to travel and do that - but obviously this might be difficult during corona.

Well it works both ways doesn't it.... regardless of whether a breeder wants a visit we should be recommending on here that a visit prior to picking the pup up is a must if you don't know the breeder.   There are too many horror stories out there.

FB reply:

Clare Foss-Smith says: Absolutely YES! I wouldn’t dream of selling a pup if I hadn’t met the person and I definitely wouldn’t buy one without seeing the entire setup, Mum, breeder etc

I did it with by puppy now he was a six hour each way drive away, but I knew the stud the owner of the stud (she bred the last male I used at stud as well as having know her for over twenty years).

I knew the breeder for over fifteen years, knew the mother and her parents as well in the flesh.

I was told by the stud owner she had mated the bitch and reserved a puppy before they were born on the understanding I wanted a show puppy. I went there and back in a day bringing him home with me.

But on the other hand the breeder also knew me as well, and my dogs the way we cared and looked after them they are pets first and show dogs second.

In fact at one outside show whatere we were there together she laughed at my dogs wearing cool coats cage fans going chilled water and parasol providing shade at 8.30 in the morning but by lunch time when it was hitting the high twenties in temperature she had joined me under my shade and was lending a spare fan for her dogs as well as chilled water. She had come down near me and did not know the venue, outside on fields the only shade was take you own when it is hot you bake

But I wouldn't recommend it for the normal way to buy a puppy

As a breeder I would refuse a puppy to anyone who wasn't prepared to visit twice.  I had two ladies travel 12 hours to view a litter, and potentially choose a pup.  I don't take a deposit, so that I can change my mind at any time.

I was able to thoroughly vet these people, which you can only do face to face.  When the litter was ready to leave home, they came to collect the pup.  They had booked a hotel half way to getting back home, so that the pup wouldn't have to travel 12 hours straight.

If they hadn't gone to all this trouble, they could have gone elsewhere for a puppy.  My litter, my choice.

What about buying from another country? Our show breed is rare (Vulnerable native breed) no litters I know of in Ireland in recent years, bought a puppy in UK last year. Spoke plenty of times before collection but first meeting was on collection as it was a two day trip, 15 hours travelling on first day as litter was based near Gatwick and there was huge motorway delays!

Thanks for your advice. I would of course pick the pup up in person and have a friend who has said they are happy to come up with me then. They live in the country near the Peak District and I live in Brighton, so it just seems too difficult to get there via public transport, and I would feel so uncomfortable driving all that distance alone.

I had hoped video calls would suffice but if it is clear there is an expectation to view the pups in person I will definitely work out a solution. Hopefully the Coronavirus lock down will have ended by the time they are born in July.

Thanks everyone for your input

I had a puppy owner come over from Germany for a litter, she came over to choose the puppy, and then came again to collect her.  I ran the pup on for her at cost, as I felt it was such a good home, and she paid for the extra vaccinations and passport.  I think as a breeder, if a good home comes up where the owner has to travel a fair distance, I for one, would be prepared to accommodate extra needs.  The right home is more important than any other considerations.

I didn’t view my pup before pick up.
I particularly wanted a black bitch and had done lots of research on different breeders. I was on the list for two breeders and got let down.
By this time I was desperate and just happened upon a breeder who had black bitch puppies. I massively researched her on-line, even looking on Google maps to see what sort of area she lived in and what her house looked like, and felt happy with her. We talked a couple of times and she sent lots of pictures.
So I only met my pup on the day I picked her up, and I was very happy with my pup and the circumstances she was born in.

“They live in the country near the Peak District and I live in Brighton.”

Travelling by train, if you can get to Southampton there is (in normal times) a direct train to Derby (does not go through/to London). From Derby you should be able to get a local connection further into the Peak District. HTH.

Best of luck, and fingers crossed that by July things will be more normal.

Just to add, the well-known breeder of our foundation bitch much preferred her puppy buyers to come in person to pick their puppy, and she sold a lot to Europe at the time.  She said she felt better if they choose their puppy (presumably so there was no come back!).   With our girl, we were in Canada at the time and couldn't get back.  There was trust involved re picking the right bitch for us, but even then, she had a friend, the breeder of our second hound, go to her place so they chose the puppy between them.   They did well!   She took a Canadian Ch. but fact is I bought her for her bloodlines - success in the ring was always going to be a bonus.   Ditto with another male we imported.

ps  Reading my earlier post back I wish I could make some changes, but can't.......

Or Brighton to st pancras then straight to derby :)

Another route is changing at Gatwick and head north and avoid London that way lol

There are different ways to do it if you look at the rail map

Avoiding london is probably  a good idea lol  :)

I bought a puppy from Europe last year but still visited at 6 weeks, flew over, spent the day there, stayed in a hotel near the airport and flew back early next morning. Was a quicker trip than collection 2 months later as had to use 2 overnight ferries.

I wouldn't want to fetch a pup without meeting the mum too, and any other relatives that might be there.  You can get useful insight into future temperament from them.

FB replies:

Rosanna Stancampiano says: I can't believe that is even a real question! Nobody should sell to someone they are not as certain as they can be who will make an excellent owner and carer for the dog. And nobody should ever buy a dog they have not been to see in person. Nobody should buy a dog, unless there is mutual interest between them and the potential for great pair bonding.

Lisa Reece says: It's not always possible. I've had puppy people from interstate. Lots of phone calls, photos and videos sent. I think it's fine.

Joan Savage says: Always

We have this same dilemma!. A huge part of getting a new family member is going to see the pups and getting to see them all with there individual characters, sizes and shapes etc.
Fortunately I have had a lengthy conversation with the breeder, who although we have never met, has reassured me that if the only way to view is via video link, then she will be happy to answer questions that we would be asking ourselves if present.
Puppies are now a week old so hopefully lockdown will be adjusted or if extended will mean it just fits in time for choosing. We like many I am sure would be happy to view from a distance with no handling etc.
Some people would ask why are we adding to the family now!? In truth we should have before now but the reason is that we have an older dog (11.5) within the family, we feel she would be too old to have a very young one around her next year.

I would feel uncomfortable selling a puppy to a new owner if I have not met them in person and they have not come to visit myself before hand.

A puppy should not be an item bought or sold on the internet, or off a shelf in a shop.
Of course you should view the puppies and mum, and meet their breeders too, any responsible breeder should want to meet you too.
It is not just the buyers choice of which puppy they want, it is also the choice of the breeder whether one will be sold to you too you or not!

.

OMG sleeping_lion.  You are guaging a suitable new owner on how far they will travel?  I have had new owners come from Dover to Orkney but they don't have a Puppy from me unless they have the time, suitable environment and previous experience. hmm?

You don't expect buyers to visit?  Really?  I insist they visit at least twice before I agree to handing a puppy over and I'm sure they see me as the MI5 with the amount of questions I ask of them.  My new owners have come as far as the Northern Isles of Scotland to Wales.  I've never been happy just to talk or zoom (in these circumstances especially when everyone wants a puppy for all the wrong reasons!)  When they agree to visit they are subject to masks, gloves & a footbath while following social distancing rules as the priority.  They don't touch the Puppies but watch me interact with both them & Mum.  I've even booked local static caravans for them so they can visit.  Standards as a responsible breeder are obviously dropping amongst you all. Re buying Puppies - you don't go with what the Breeder wants - you insist they answer every question you can think of and say you want to be updated on a weekly basis between viewing & collection.  If we haven't met face to face as a breeder/potential new owner, you would not be part of my reserve list and I would not accept a deposit from you.  I have 2 lovely puppy girls with me who didn't find homes due to pandemic and potential new families being unable to visit but I still wouldn't change this for the world.  Getting a better & better insight into how there are rules for some but not for others.

Hoggie, you do realise that if you continue just to bring up old posts and bait people, it's not going to be long before you're banned from the forum?

Only doing what has been done to me by the forum (2 particular members extremely nasty and more guilty than anyone of going off thread). Are these guilty ones going to be banned too?And then all patting each other on the back for being full of constraint...really? Things such as 'baiting' and derogatory labels have been pitched at me since day one. Having been privately messaged by other Breeders, it seems some of your names are well known for exactly the bullying tactics used. Bringing up history was one of your posters entire goals throughout and then making unexplained or exaggerated claims. It's unfortunate that original thread was taken down or you would be able to see for yourself.

The difference between you and me is I've had 3 litters in a breeding programme of 12 years, and I know the health test results of the dogs in my breeding.  You seemed surprised to find out that a stud dog you moved on had been used yet again to sire litters, despite only having hip scores of 36/36, although let's face it, he had 7 litters in total, so you must have known about a few of them.  You also allowed your boy with an elbow grade of 1 to sire numerous litters, I haven't ever done that, I've only ever travelled to use stud dogs who are fully health tested, so complain as much as you like, get me banned, social media will still know about you.

Um no, you are making that assumption, otherwise I'd only want people to buy my pups who travel from Australia, silly woman Elaine eh?

Please refrain from continuing to call me names (the latest being Silly Woman).  We all have to start somewhere and I take my Breeding practices very seriously. Granted it has been a sharp learning curve and yes I have made mistakes however there are certain derogatory terms that people use such as ' Puppy Farmer' knowing it will cause complete uproar. You called me this from day one as did many of your Forum Members. Taking today to reflect. I believe a thread should be started regarding courtesy and understanding of people who approach the Forum.  Many inexperienced and many approaching felt they have been ridiculed and expressed disappointment as some responses have been both sarcastic & condescending. Perhaps a code of conduct should be sent to every existing member including myself as a reminder that courtesy should always prevail?  I look forward to your response.

Go for it Elaine Duffield of Trelastyn, let's face it, you have such poor breeding practices you don't even know what happens with some of your dogs, you have accidental litters, yet want to be accepted as some sort of breeder of excellence.  Good luck.

Oh my - that is quite a wide scope of accusations.  1 accidental litter actually which was fully explained but disregarded.  Taurus Star didn't have 7 Litters under my care and finally when did I ask to be seen as a breeder of excellence?  I asked not to be referred to as a BYD Puppy Farmer - that was all.  (more sarcasm from you on the good luck comment too)

> Oh my - that is quite a wide scope of accusations.  1 accidental litter actually which was fully explained but disregarded.  Taurus Star didn't have 7 Litters under my care and finally when did I ask to be seen as a breeder of excellence?  I asked not to be referred to as a BYD Puppy Farmer - that was all.  (more sarcasm from you on the good luck comment too)

What on earth is a BYD?

One accidental litter?  Back tracking again? 

BTW Tricymoedd Glancaraig Lady had two litters with Taurus Star, your dog with 36/36 hip scores and NO OTHER HEALTH TESTS, and she had NO HEALTH TESTS.  The dates of those litters are 10 February 2017 and 25 April 2018, not exactly a long, long time ago. 

Your TWO accidental litters with Dashing Donald Bach, your stud dog that is not tested for SD2 and has an elbow grade of 1 were with Little Princess Peach, a visiting bitch to your premises whilst in season who 'accidentally' got caught (experienced breeder of 17 years can't keep a dog and bitch apart) and had a litter of 8 puppies on 20 March 2020, and with Trelystan Lois (yet again) on 19 May 2020, where two pups were born, and you registered the litter with the KC despite openly stating you didn't even know she was pregnant, so how on earth did you know which dog was the sire? 

And without your knowledge, Trelystan Donald Jack, a puppy with your own affix, went on to sire two litters even though he tested as a carrier for SD2, to bitches with absolutely NO HEALTH TESTS, the first to Grace Little Lady born 3 March 2020, the second to Housty Puzzles Sky, born 3 May 2020.

Perhaps you ought to write some of these down since your memory seems to be failing you? 

You still haven't explained the 9 genetic tests your bitches are (aren't) clear for.  Or that you state you only breed on from an elbow grade of 1, although that latter one may be 'going forward' since you've now stopped breeding/having accidental litters with Dashing Donald Bach?

Hoggie you told me to look at your main page to see what you were all about. Have you had 6 litters in about the last year? And goodness your health testing certainly isn’t exemplary as you claim on your page. I can see now why people have said some of the things they have, and you have become defensive instead of taking the advice of truly exemplary breeders on here.

Pretty poor isn’t it

Not true...not 6 litters in the last year NO,  Health testing is as per KC Guidelines. Never claimed to be exemplirary, I take my advice from the professional bodies.
This thread relates tothe question 'is viewing a puppy necessary?' .  think you might be going off thread?

Not according to professional bodies

the thread relates to 'is viewing a puppy necessary'  off thread with your comments

You have 6 litters registered under your kennel name in the last 12-16 months though?
And the page on your male with the elbow score describes his health test results as exemplary.

BYD is a slip of the keyboard on my part.  Should have been BYB, The accidental litter was not in response to Taurus Star but to Lois. Infact all your claims are out of context and exaggerated so won't go back there. Oops just realized this thread is related to 'is puppy viewing necesssary'.  Almost pulled me into going off thread.

Are you turning this into another off thread car crash? Off thread and historic details again.

All of what I've posted is factual.  Out of context?  To the thread title, yes, but they are still facts that you choose to ignore, or try to sweep aside as you really don't like staring those facts in the face. 

Anyway, talking of viewing puppies, I'm off to meet up with two of my puppy owners to go for a walk in the sunshine.

Are you turning this into another off thread car crash? Off thread and historic details again.

No, just pointing out that people in glass houses.... and trying to stick up for people who don’t deserve your attacks.

this not the place to do that

off thread again

contorted