Are there any breeders on Champ dogs that breed Australian Shepherds with Golden Retrievers?

Commonly referred to as Golden Aussies or Australian Retrievers.

It seems they’re very popular in the states but very hard to come by in the UK.
I have searched the web endlessly. Please help!

Can anyone help me find my forever pooch

This would be a crossbred dog. ChampDogs is a site promoting pedigree dogs and responsible breeding, so you're not likely to find much of use here...

My daughter has Australian shepherds (doesn't breed them). I really can't see why they would be crossed with a Golden Retriever. Totally different types of dog.

I also have family with Australian sheps just not in the UK and as I said in original post, pretty common crossbreed elsewhere. If you research the breed you’ll see they are actually an amazing combination, weight size disposition not too dissimilar.
The cross tends to breed out some of the more common issues the Pedigree Goldens tend to suffer.

> If you research the breed

As it is not a breed, it will not be on Champdogs

I’m very aware that it is a cross breed. Don’t take my post onto the forum as a sign of naivety about responsible breeding. An Aussie retriever has been a breed of ‘mutt’ long before these designer dogs graced the handbags of celebrities.
I’m simply looking for a point in the right direction. As I said in my original post I have done a vast search and unfortunately not come up with much in the UK.

Why cross a Golden Retriever which have HD, ED, & genetic conditions in common with an American breed like ASD. They both have PRA & cataracts & cases of epilepsy

Hybrid vigour only occurs in crosses between different species not different breeds in tbe same species.

So puppies from this cross breeding are not healthier than either individual breed & infact could have more health issues than a a puppies from the individual breeds.

Just another money making "designer". Seen a similar cross between a BC( which is by a dog whose father was an ex working sheepdog reregistered as a BC) & a Golden Retriever(a deliberate cross)& TBH I wasnt impressed with the work drive not the phyical look, they were simply crossbred dogs, despite the Golden being from good working lines. The sire is a carrier for a life affecting genetic condition & half of the puppies are too.

These crosxbreeds will no doubt have a huge price tag

And all anyone is saying is that you won't find anyone on here who can help because the site is dedicated to pedigree dog breeds not crosses... None of us will have any experience of where to find this cross I'm afraid.

You won't find any of these crosses in UK. They are not Australian because ASD are an American not Australian breed, you don't find any ASD in Australia on cattle/sheep ranches either. They only have ACD, Kelpies & Header dogs (equivalent of Border Collies)

never heard of this cross before and from that the chances of someone putting this mix together with care and being responsible is slim to none and by that I mean health testing the Golden and the Aussie for known issues in their  breeds because mixing them doesn't eradicate the issues, you could end up with a pup with all the issues of both breeds.
Also temperaments are key too, again most, not all who breed crosses don't even consider this at all.

Why on earth would anyone want to cross a (supposedly) herding breed with a retrieving breed? The traits are very different and there would be a conflict of instincts, creating a potentially very stressed dog. Not a very responsible thing to do.

Crossbreeders aren't allowed on the Champdogs breeder pages.

A couple of articles I just read said they can be quite possessive of their family / herd which needs watching for .

Also they seem to have been created in the USA  as a designer breed very recently one said 2007. Although I am sure others existed as any cross will unintentionally before that
Hopefully it isn't a trend starting in the UK.. especially as its likely to open up yet more unscrupulous breeding and won't reduce  health issues in either breed just potentially increase .them .and give a wider health  lottery.

This 'breeds out the worst' reminds me of a man I took to task for mating his Basset bitch with his Shar Pei male....... said to be done to 'rule out problems with wrinkle'.... REALLY!!   Why couldn't the man at least be honest and say it was for the INCOME.

> Totally different types of dog.

Unfortunately that's often the appeal with those seeking to make money by crossbreeding.  Throw the most random combo together you can think of, and earn thousands for it.

> said to be done to 'rule out problems with wrinkle'.... REALLY!!

That is the weirdest bit of non-logic I think I've ever heard!

Ive just had a look at ASD’s and they are nice looking dogs. GR’s are my breed and I know how nice they are. Why mix the two and possible have a conflicted dog with a number of health issues compounded by both breeds having the same issues such as hip dysplasia and PRA, then throw MDR1 into the mix. It’s highly unlikely that those breeding such a random cross as this is going to be health testing the parents.

I’ve seen several people asking where they can get ‘a smaller breed’ crossed with a golden retriever, one asked for breeders of golden spaniels, GR cocker spaniel cross.
What seems to be the main reason for looking for these crosses is that they like GR’s but want a smaller dog with the attributes and looks of the GR. Crossing a GR with something like a collie or say, a working cocker may make a smaller dog, on the other hand may not, but a dog that is either conflicted in its drives or as daft as box of frogs. GR’s are silly enough when young without adding in working spaniels or driven shepherd dogs. I would hate to think of a dog looking like a GR but having a natural bobtail inherited from its ASD parent. A goldens tail is one of best bits I always think

I have a feeling there wont be any further posts from Crazietoes, as he/she probably wont like the replies that have been made.....

The Kennel Club recognises 2018 breeds. There's bound to be one with similar looks to these crossbreeds, and by chosing a pedigree dog there's a much better chance of knowing what the dog will end up like both as regards to looks, temperament and health. I'd challenge anyone to research all 2018 breeds and not find one that will suit them.

Lot of this type of questions last few months - you would think that the name of the site would give people a clue as to what the site is all about

>The Kennel Club recognises 2018 breeds.

I think that should be 218 breeds, Goldmali!

OOops LOL -too late to edit. Yes 218 of course.

For me it just comes back down to breeding for a purpose. In a world where we are flooded with dogs and are destroying them on a daily basis due to lack of suitable homes, to deliberately bring more dogs into the world needs careful thought and the only way to justify it is to be breeding to achieve something worthwhile. That means breeding to preserve or better the breed, breeding for a specific sporting or performance or conformation purpose - or to produce service dogs etc - always with health and temperament as a given.

So: What is the PURPOSE of breeding a crossbreed dog? There are some crossbred dogs like deliberate crosses for service dog purposes, which are fully health tested and have a function, which I think anyone would be hard pressed to object to. Some working trials folks deliberately cross collies with other breeds because they like these crosses for WT purposes - fully health tested. Gundog people cross cockers and springers to make sprockers because they see this results in a lower COI and healthier dogs which are still excellent spaniels in the field. All these dogs have very specific performance purposes and goals. They are not just bred because someone thought they looked cute, but to fulfil a need and a function. Which is how mankind has bred dogs for millennia.

But what is the purpose of a cocker x poodle? Or a maltese x poodle? Or an Australian shepherd x goldie? Or a goldie x cavalier? When it is done just to appeal to the pet market or because people think the puppies are cute or because they've 'always wanted this' cross then I don't think this justifies breeding the cross. We're breeding living breathing animals here, not designer handbags that are in fashion and look nice FFS....

Apparently it’s not uncommon to breed papillon x border collies for smaller agility dogs, which surprised me when I found out but I can kind of see how that might work.

Paps don’t have herding drive (or really any other drive that could conflict with the BC), and they are pretty similar in basic shape, and in my experience not too dissimilar in temperament, intelligence, and desire to work. It does kind of make sense.

But I can’t understand why you’d deliberately make some of the crosses you see out there. I mean, rottie x corgi? Dachshund x GSD? Pug or Frenchie x pretty much anything? Just, why?

>Gundog people cross cockers and springers to make sprockers because they see this results in a lower COI and healthier dogs which are still excellent spaniels in the field.

And originally of course they were the same; the larger pups from a litter were the springers used for larger gamebirds and the smaller ones from the same litter were the cockers, used on smaller birds. So to remix them is a cross in name only; and there's absolutely no conflict of instincts.

>Apparently it’s not uncommon to breed papillon x border collies for smaller agility dogs

Isn't that called a sheltie?

Apparently it’s not uncommon to breed papillon x border collies for smaller agility dogs, which surprised me when I found out but I can kind of see how that might work.


Really ? I have friends who are very active in agility at all levels & size bands. They've not heard of such crosses which would fall into the medium/intermediate size bands. The small band consist of the toy,  toy/miniature pooples, smaller terriers & breeds like cockers as the height level is just under 16 inches. So plenty of choice of breeds without crosses being deliberately bred. I doubt pap x bc would fall into the under 16 inch size.

I don't know how much you know about agility, but work drive is very important & reducing it isn't the way to go. If you watch the small agility the successful dogs are driven, the jumps size are reduced but not the distance between them. I've watched some brilliant Staffies out pace small collies in the small competition.

Paps & BCs have totally different bone density as well as the size difference etc.

It may be a common cross in the US were using AI is almost the norm, I presume the sire would be the Pap to ensure bigger litters from a BC mother. Not one that I hope will be done in UK. People to breed these bizarre crosses certainly are not aiming to improve the health of the dogs.

There is a smaller size band in non KC shows where the very tiny dogs compete called Micro, I believe for dogs, under 9 inches. Again the jumps are lower, but the contact obstacles & length of course are the same, so drive is still important.

Unfortunately it is true but I wouldn't say common. I think one ran at the last Olympia but I can't remember if it was small or medium. I was horrified when I heard the announcer say the breed. For many years now people have been breeding border collies smaller and there have been some occasional strange crosses, mainly to get into the medium height classes. This has been because there have been smaller numbers of dogs in those classes and so less competition. Hopefully, now that agility has the intermediate height band making the numbers in all four heights more equal, people will not feel the need to do this. But then, unfortunately, people do seem to cross dogs for the sake of it.
There are some very driven papillons around.

Really ? I have friends who are very active in agility at all levels & size bands. They've not heard of such crosses which would fall into the medium/intermediate size bands.

I've seen a fair few in the BRS on the activity register.

Doesn't actually prove they are pap x bc does it as you can register a dog on the AR giving any breed as their parents( or non at all)

I wanted to register my two mongrels with the KC AR so I could legally enter them NFC. & go to the odd obedience show to see my friends & give my dogs new experiences. My dogs are not cross breeds they are mongrels with totally non pedigree/crossbreed parents, simply out & out mongrels. Had an indepth discussion with one of the Kennel Club higher line managers, she suggested I should register them as cross breeds, one a collie cross & the other a beardie cross( his mother looks like a cross or working beardie,whch she isn't BTW & in any case my dog has no beardie traits physical or mental), but they are not.

Apparently the computer doesn't recognize mongrel, but will recognize pedigree crosses !! How bizarre, you can lie about your dog's breed status, but not register them honestly !

Do the KC recognize the alleged parents on the actual register or just cross breed ? I thought that they only recognized pedigree breeds & anonymous cross breeds. I know you cannot AR a dog as being a BC only a WSD because of the legal agreement with the ISDS.

But a Pap x BC(or WSD) is not a "breed" is it no more than any of the oodles, etc so surley they should just be called cross breeds.

Are these dogs created by AI ?

You mean activities breeders are breeding smaller dogs surely. No shepherd or farmer would breed small collies & show breeders aim for 20 to 21 inch dogs to meet their breed standard. I know some flyball addicts seek out what they call" mini" collies

The person breeding these dogs (from what I gather from the BRS) is somebody wellknown in agility with Paps -don't want to mention names but that's a major clue. I seem to remember there was at least one competing at Crufts this year.

AI I have no idea, but of course small male dogs always find a way. I have a rescued fairly large breed bitch (about 22 inches tall) who was pregnant when I gave her a home and the father turned out to be a Chihuahua. The previous owner basically said she couldn't be pregnant because she'd only been with a Chihuahua, so it was an accidental mating. The pups are now adults and 12 inches.

And yes you're right, I just checked, the BRS for activities only state "crossbreed" so I was wrong - I will have seen the owner's name and knowing what cross the dogs were as it is info readily available online.

So the pups may or may not have BC/wsd in them could be crossed with just about anything. I would hope that people would be ethically, but obviously not.

When you have a small collie type breed available already in the sheltie there's no reason to spoil another breed like the BC to produce one & we all know that crossing breeds doesn't instantly produce another breed. I have a friend who used to breed working shelties up in the shetland isles, she sold a normal sized puppy to a young couple & he grew & grew to the size of a Rough, but with distinctive Sheltie head that distinguishes the Sheltie from the Roughs. She was shocked & they did parental DNA tests on parents & pup & yes the result showed they adults were the parents of the pup. It has never happened again & the pup is idolized by its owners & it is a super sheep worker out in the Hebrides on a flock of Hebridean sheep, which I understand are tough primitives !

I was disappointed reading  this thread after seeing the title as I thought it was about the Australian Murray River Curly Coated Retriever! I've not seen one in the flesh but they look gorgeous. I don't think they are seen out of Australia though.

Nobody asked me which breeds she resembled when I registered my Terrier/Lurcher for Working Trials. I just just put Crossbred, and this is how she appears on her Reg. Cert., and on MyKC. Though I could supply a year of birth, that was not accepted and the KC amended it to Unknown.

Ann. I missed an s off the end of the word. It should have said breeds as in the two breeds of the parents. Many BC/WSD dogs in agility, obedience and presumably flyball have not been near a farm for generations although they are classed as pure bred. They are now bred for a different 'job' so to speak. Personally I do not like to see breeds altered to meet the fad of the moment but presumably these people have been breeding the smallest dogs in a litter to other smaller dogs. Although this would not mean all pups are small some would be.
As to AI, some people I used to know found a Jack Russel had somehow managed to get into their kennels and mate with their GSD bitch.

It was my agility instructor that told me about the pap x BC crosses. We’ve only been training for 6 weeks and I’m very much in the research stage but we’re having a lot of fun!

River has the best forward drive in the class and I think he’s doing really well, he absolutely loves to work and train (we’re also doing parkour and tracking and he has Good Citizen Bronze). And he isn’t one of those delicate tiny paps with the twig-thin legs that look they might snap if the wind blows too hard!

Good luck with the agility. It really is fun but be warned it can be addictive.

Lol you won't see them in Australia as the Australian Shepherd is no more Australian than poodle is a french bred.

The Australian Shepherd is an American breed that allegedly came from Spain with the Merino sheep in the early 1800s.

Crossing the American. ASD & the Scottish Golden Retiever hardly produces an Australian breed

KC WSD are not the same as ISDS WSD.  To the ISDS their dogs are all WSD (or Border Collies)as their certificates state. Technically the BC are WSD bred in the Border Land between Scotland & England, as the word Border suggests.

KC WSD. are dogs that( allegedly) resemble Border Collies, but have no paperwork to prove it.
The agreement between the ISDS & KC was/is that dogs that do not have any paperwork cannot be registered on the AR as BC. It is the only breed that you cannot register on the AR, the KC change the registration to WSD.

There are three types of BC full register dogs, those from KC full register parents, those with parents that are both ISDS reg, or who have an ISDS Sire & KC dam or those that have been converted from WSD to BC via the loophole meant to help breeds with restricted gene pools.

Yes a lot of the dogs are far from the farm dogs,, but then so many other breeds are far from their origins.

I could obtain a small non descript puppy & register it on the AR as across between any two breeds I like without proof & no one would question it as there is no trully accurate DNA test that can prove unequivocally that which(if any breeds are in the genetic make up)

Ann. I am fully aware of all of the above appertaining to 'collies'.
The only cross that I know of that is given a name on the activities register is the lurcher. All the rest are just given the name cross not what they are crossed with.
There would be no point in saying a dog that was not a collie cross was one in the agility world. Apart from in the small height classes there are special classes for ABC (anything but collie). They are quite prestigious classes with finals at Crufts and Olympia. Pure bred or crosses of BC and WSD from any registration system are not allowed in these classes.
Think we have strayed off the original topic.