Do you think some people are just naturally GIFTED when it comes to breeding dogs, just like some people are GIFTED when it comes to ART etc etc, in other words, we can all pick up a paint brush and learn to paint but that doesn't mean we will ever be a truly great artist no matter how much we practise.

Can you think of any particular breeders within certain breeds that you would consider GIFTED ....?

Most breeders can have the best intentions in the world (do all the health tests and try their very best) and hats off to everyone for this, but do you think some breeders just have a natural GIFT when it comes to breeding dogs (outstanding dogs) or do you believe this skill can be learned by many or maybe even most people ....?

I think as in most things in life talent gives you a leg up but it takes work and practice to get really good at something whether you have a gift for it or not.

Breeding is one of those things where there’s a lot of randomness involved so even if you’re a breeding genius there’s always a chance that any mating you do won’t produce anything decent. Choosing the right pairing to maximise the chances of getting pups that are better than the parents helps of course, and I believe that comes from knowledge of the breed and lines you’re using, and knowledge of the individual dogs involved as well.

The talent part, I guess, is the knack of being able to pick a good pairing kind of by feel, without too much studying of pedigrees or whatever. I don’t know that it gives you much of an advantage over someone who’s done the background work and is relying on knowledge rather than “instinct”. And the more you learn, the less that talent is going to matter anyway.

Gifted isn't the term I would use but there are lots of breeders I admire. I'm pretty good at picking a pup at 6 weeks old, I've chosen quite a few successful dogs this way, but the breeders I truly admire are the ones that can tell when a puppy is still wet if it is something special, I mean they're just fat slugs at that stage That skill combined with the in-depth knowledge not only of different lines and what they produce together but knowledge too of how their chosen breed should perform it's work, and the construction required for soundness, good movement etc.

One such breeder that I enjoyed many long conversations with, was Ann Macaulay of the Gartlove Irish Wolfhounds. She won a crufts group, along with many other top accolades and bred some truly wonderful hounds. She could pick a pup from the nest at a few minutes old and had an amazing eye for a good dog. She never judged much, which was a great shame because she was really honest about her own dogs and would give an honest opinion when I asked her about any of mine, wasn't always what I wanted to hear but she was inevitably right.  She combined health and longevity of her hounds with soundness in the field and success in the show ring. Sadly she died last year.

This was one of my favourites among her dogs.

I don't really believe so.   I think breeding has more to do with doing homework/ research - and the ability to pick the right puppy to keep going forward.     And there's no doubt a good deal of luck comes into it.   Some people have an inbuilt ability to feel when something isn't right so are able to 'avoid' situations which could lead to a disaster.  Good mentoring/support from those with tons of experience helps too.

I would say that with my breed, when first born and again at 5 weeks is when you might best be able to see what the 'finished article' should be.   However, Bassets go through so many stages as they mature that picking the right puppy is quite a challenge.  You just pick, and hope for the best

I think I've been very lucky when it's come to my girls and the small amount of litters I've had.  I don't think there's such a thing as gifted as such, there's a lot of good knowledge out there, but there's a lot of bad practice mixed in with that good knowledge, and some success as well.  So top producers doesn't always equal good practice.

Some friends of mine bred top quality labradors for years, they judged as well as showed their own dogs. A friend of theirs was often asked their opinion of a litter and what puppy did she think was show quality etc. This friend had no particular knowledge of labradors although had pet dogs off and on during her life, seemed to have an uncanny ability to pick out the right pup that went on to do well in the ring.

"but the breeders I truly admire are the ones that can tell when a puppy is still wet if it is something special, I mean they're just fat slugs at that stage"

To my way of thinking, that's kind of like buying a lottery ticket and saying your going to win before the numbers have been called (so much is yet to develope)

I think if GIFTED does exist its more to do with GIFTED in the sense of stacking more of the odds in their favour therefore, producing countless good dogs, but that's just my opinion I guess.

Interesting viewpoints

One thing that did occur to me when I was thinking about this post yesterday, is that some breeders who have a lot of litters are stacking the odds in favour of producing some outstanding dogs.  Where as those who are small producers will find it more difficult to find the same number of outstanding dogs from their breeding plans.  I've seen where breeders run on pretty much a whole litter in the aim of getting that one or two with the most promise of winning in the show ring, not for me, I'm just not dedicated enough, and if the one I keep back isn't quite good enough then that's life.  Maybe the next litter will be the one where my keeper is an outstanding dog, but then to me, all of my lot are outstanding anyway.

> some breeders who have a lot of litters are stacking the odds in favour of producing some outstanding dogs.  Where as those who are small producers will find it more difficult to find the same number of outstanding dogs from their breeding plans.

Absolutely right.   There were a few breeders out in Canada (S.Ontario) who always seemed to have success in the ring - until you realised exactly how many litters they were producing!   Stacking the odds for sure.

stacking the odds maybe but would that be considered a good breeder ?
Do they keep those that they run on ? Or does that lead to rehoming at an older age and its potential  issues for the dog if the pups havnt been appropriately socialised.

> To my way of thinking, that's kind of like buying a lottery ticket and saying your going to win before the numbers have been called (so much is yet to develope)

For most people it is, for a truly gifted breeder it is not. These are people who only breed the very best,  rather than those who breed their mediocre dogs hoping for something outstanding from them. They also rear their chosen pup in optimum circumstances, a lot of novice owners will over/under exercise, not socialise properly or don't use correct feeding regime. A gifted breeder will make that pup a success barring freak accidents of course.

> stacking the odds maybe but would that be considered a good breeder ?

I don't think that's a good breeder, I know one like that, who is pretty successful in the show ring, but they breed all the time and often keep 3 pups or more from each litter, some if not most are rehomed as slightly older pups or adults. To me that's someone who doesn't know what they're doing, they lack the skill to pick the best pup from the nest so run on all promising ones. They also randomly breed anything to anything, all dogs with some success but from various lines hoping they will stumble across the magical mix of genes.

I know someone who is regarded a the most successful breeder in their breed World wide.
Because of the international demand for their puppies they run them all on to 16 weeks.
As a result the dogs are not Of course socialised properly.

That is exactly the kind of thing I would be worried about if someone is breeding only for success in the ring and running multiple pups on.
There has to be a balance and pups welfare should come first

I didn't think the question of whether someone was gifted and also a good breeder was what was being asked, that'd be a whole can of worms, I can think of a few people who do very well but I wouldn't consider them good, or even gifted in some instances! 

It wasn't sl . It was just something that struck me looking at the answers that to be gifted u imo would.need to be all round good

Further, I know of somebody in my main breed here in the UK who has a lot of litters and who has managed to keep a high level of consistency - very good dogs which go to a lot of successful exhibitors (and as pets).  Those dogs are happy and show no sign of not being 'socialised'.  Ditto for another breeder in Europe who sells all over the world.  Clearly they have the ability to know which bitch to mate to which dog.   If that a gift - or just a long-term knowledge of their breed coupled with a lot of experience of what works and what doesn't?   Clearly these people have the ability to accommodate their breeding activities, something we didn't so we only ever bred for our next generation and in general, most of our litters gave us what we were looking for.

Or maybe just their preference coincides with what is winning?