I have just been talking to some one with a litter of pups and their pedigrees are endorsed I agree with most of the rules of this endorsement as i put the same endorsement on my own pups!
but on top of the usual rules about hip scores and beeing with in the breed standard ect.. this breeder has stated that he wants a puppy from the bitches first litter and that he gets to chose the stud dog, is this normal!

Hi Guest,
This seems a bit OTT to me! And I think (please will someone correct me if I'm wrong) that in law, if endoresements aren't pointed out to the buyer at the time of sale, and signatures obtained to that effect, that they can be challenged? Unless you have it in writing about these additional conditions, and have signed that you agree with them, the breeder can't enforce them....however he can still refuse to lift the endorsements, so you're back at square one. :(

Might be being thick, but I'm not quite clear from the guest's post whether it's the mum of the pups that is endorsed, or the entire litter? Whilst not saying that this is such a situation, if it's the mum and he took her on breeding terms, this MAY be a perfectly sensible arrangement, i.e. a nominal sum was paid for the bitch with a puppy to come back later.

For those who aren't aware of breeding terms, from REPUTABLE breeders, this used to be an acceptable way of getting a better class of puppy than the breeder was willing to sell outright. Let's hope that the guest's friend didn't come up against a less reputable one who wanted full purchase price, plus a puppy back!! (As endorsement also seems to put conditions on health testing/hip scores, would hope it might be someone decent.)

Yes, you are right, the KC have stated that unless endorsements are pointed out to the buyer at the time of sale and they sign that they have understood and agreed, they will be lifted without the original breeder's permission. Can't remember what date this was effective from, though, so if it was before that there might still be an issue.

M.

Hi Marina,
When I got my latest bitch I paid LOTS for her, she is endorsed with both the KC codes (export & breeding) and the breeder has to be consulted for the choice of stud dog, then she will lift the endorsement. ALSO she will take back second pick from either the first or second litter It has to be said, that I wouldn't agree to such terms now, but we live and learn.
The KC have just changed the rules again about endorsements, cos if the bitch is sold on, then the original breeder must get the new owners to sign to accept the endorsements otherwise they are not enforceable :(

Grace

You're right, Grace - we do live and learn, and I guess I'm very lucky in that I learnt through other people's mistakes rather than my own.

M.

It sounds to me that there are two separate issues here. One of endorsements, and one of breeding terms. Both issues are valid in breeding and puppy sales, but it seems to me that this breeder will be unwilling to remove the endorsement if the buyer does not agree to the breeding terms. This could only be acceptable if the puppy was sold at a greatly reduced price, at least half normal value. If these pups are to be sold at full value, then I'd give this one a very wide berth. I can understand breeders wanting to be consulted as to suitable matings, but not to expect a puppy in return for lifting endorsements and advice.
Dawn R.

Hi think you had everything right up to >> he can still refuse to lift the endorsements, so you're back at square one. If there has me misrepresentation then they all can be challanged including endorsements but I don't think this is what the poster was meaning.

The endorements and breeding terms are seperate and yes both are quite common now a days some agree with them some don't it is up to the individual.

I do sometimes think that some people should give new people a break though but if the whole thing is done properly and honestly I believe it to be very successful.

People are very scared now to sell puppies to any person who could potential harm the breed and the persons name.

PAM

PS you tend to find these things in Show situations more often.