Hi all. Just come across champdogs whilst looking for a perspective stud dog for my retriever x lab.
She’s been with me since a pup and always planned to have a litter from her, but timing was never right. I’m now in a good position to be able to go ahead. She’s just turned 4 and In great shape, being a keen agility dog and about the yard all day with me.
Hip scores, elbow scores and all test are new to me. Being a cross breed does she need to have all these tests. I’m sure my vets will advise me when we go in a couple of weeks, but always good to be prepared. Also would owners of a pure stud dog (looking for a golden retriever stud dog) be happy to breed with a cross breed.
Any advice would be lovely. Thanks

Others will give more in-depth advice but cross breed or not she needs all the health tests that would be done for both breeds
It's unlikely and I would be concerned with a stud dog owner who is prepared to let a cross breed be used with their purebred dog
Unfortunately your vet unless he is a good breeder himself of specialises in the subject which is unlikely is not the best place to get good breeding advice.
People here however will be able to tell u what u need to be doing
Sorry to start with a negative reply

Please don't breed from your dog.

No, no reputable owner of a pedigree stud dog will want their dog to sire crossbred puppies unless you are breeding for a very specific purpose (ie service dog work).

There are so many dogs in the world that they are being destroyed on a daily basis in many countries, so please don't bring more into the world just for the sake of it.

A reputable breeder breeds to preserve the traits and qualities of a breed and to further those whether through performance or conformation. If you are deliberately breeding crossbred dogs, you're not breeding to preserve breed traits because there is no breed concerned.

And yes, if you still insist on breeding, you will need to fully health test her for all the health conditions which either of the breeds behind her are susceptible for. That means BVA hip and elbow scoring (x-rays), BVA eye testing, and DNA tests for CNM, SD2, prcd-PRA and EIC. That's for the Lab part of her. I'm not sure what the golden part of her would need besides hip and elbow scoring and eye tests but I'm sure someone else will know. It will cost you just under £1000K to have all the necessary health tests done.

Agree1234 much better if u want another dog to buy a pup when things have settled all round

Thanks for your input. I did think it would be difficult to find the dog I was hoping for due to her being a cross

Thanks. I’m not doing it for the sake of it, or for profit.

Not looking to just buy another dog, a litter from her is my plan and always has been.

A full panel of health tests is required for both sire & dam. That is hip & elbow scores, current clinical eye tests & all available DNA tests( for both breeds behind your bitch & the sire if he is a cross) Hips should be under the breed median score & elbow score should be 0.

As your bitch is a cross you can't be breeding to improve the breed as all responsible breeder's main aim should be. Have you got a waiting list of prospective owners for the offspring which could number 10+ ?

I'm surprised you have been doing agility without doing at least hip & elbow scoring, my friend has a mongrel who is a grade 6 agility dog & she had her bitch scored before doing any adult agility training let alone completing. What grade is your bitch ?

The problem is, what do you do with the rest of the pups?  You might want a puppy from your bitch, but what happens if she has 12 pups? 

With a KC registered dog, you can do more to deter people going against your will and breeding on from pups indiscriminately, by endorsing pups.  I can also research back into the pedigrees of my dogs and with the use of the KC website, look at the health of the ancestors of my dogs, the estimated breeding value going forward, and the co-efficient of inbreeding.  You will be hard pushed to find a stud dog owner of a good dog, who will allow you to use their dog with your bitch; they will most likely have proven their dog, which has cost them time and money, and will have owners of proven, health tested bitches asking to use their dogs. 

The other issue is cost, if you hit any problems at all vets fees escalate incredibly quickly, my first litter left me several thousand pounds in the red, after pups had gone to new homes.  Vets fees associated directly with the whelping alone were over £2k, are you prepared for the possibility of those costs, or even worse, losing your bitch, pups, or both?

Thankyou all for your input. First time I’ve ever posted on a forum, I won’t be doing it again in a hurry haha.
Five different owners of retrievers have all said they’re not concerned about letting their stud be used with a lab x retriever.
I do have a long list of definite homes for the pups, and know and trust them all. This is not something I’ve just decided to do over night. My dog is my world and if her pups are half as good as her I’ll be over the moon.

If u do go ahead  please make sure that u have done all the health tests first for both breeds . As well as checking that the sire has also had all.the correct health tests and results are all good . Vet checks are not sufficient.
Interesting that so many who have purebred KC registered dogs are happy to go ahead .that is not the norm but then we are in funny times and often not good ones for the dogs .
Also as has been said breeding isn't always straightforward so think about the risks to the dog u love
Also u should be prepared to take back any pups if their owners are unable to keep them for life . Is that possible ?
Everyone has been blunt yes but kind too giving advise as it really is so don't take offence .

KC reg hasn't actually been mention by the OP though so maybe they are just talking to those who are purebred (i.e. two assumed GR's as parents) rather than pedigree?

Am I right J80krk? As has already been mentioned, it is very unusual for anyone with a good KC reg stud dog to let them be used on a non KC bitch.

So my post was about the tests that need doing, and the stud dog. I appreciate the risks and warnings. Lab x retriever is a very common breed. Wasn’t banking on people being so aposed to looking for a retriever to breed with.

And of course I will get every test she needs. Goes without saying really, hence the question

If you ask about breeding on a forum where there are people who advocate responsible breeding, then you will, I'm afraid, get advice that you weren't looking for.  There are simply so many people breeding, not realising the risks involved, and the potential financial lay out.  If all goes well, you may break about even, but overall expect to make a loss.  I can't really see why you'd want to breed on, but that's my personal view, not meant to offend as I would think if you'd want to establish any sort of breeding, you would be better off buying in a KC registered pup, and starting from there, researching the lines, see what you've got as your bitch develops and look at what's being produced.  If you look at Rivermeadow Labradors, Katy does agility with her Labradors, and does really well, I don't know if you've heard of them before, but she has had 4 generations of 0/0 hips and elbows with her Labradors.  She also works them during the shooting season. 

The health tests for Labradors have been mentioned, I know there are some similarities between the health tests for both GRs and Labs, but I think the form of PRA is different for GRs, so this may need testing for separately, or, if you buy a bundle which tests for more than one condition, they may both be included.  The test I did on my bitch included about 150 conditions, many of which weren't relevant to Labradors, but there were about 15 or so that were from memory, some of which aren't a problem in the breed.  I'm not sure if the BVA eye test is similar/the same, they are now testing again, so you need to find an opthalmic specialist vet, a list can be found on the BVA website.  Most breeders do that test first, as it's relatively cheap (approx £60 plus fuel), if they have a clear BVA eye certificate then obviously it's worth then spending the money on the rest of the health tests.  Some people travel to use vets that are experienced in taking plates to be submitted for hips and elbows, I do now, as I had some plates taken by an inexperienced vet that were so poor they were rejected by the BVA, so you need to ask around for recommendations.

Many people like the kudos and even if kc reg and health tested its money in the stud dog owners back pocket, however responsible and reputable stud owners wouldn't allow their male to be used on a crossbreed.

Anyway to the other person the breed clubs for Labs and Goldens will have info on the health tests which are recommended. Go and have a look there.

Yes I can see that being appealoing to the less responsible breeders. Just wondered if maybe the OP hadn't realised there was a difference between purebred and pedigree/KC reg.

>Five different owners of retrievers have all said they’re not concerned about letting their stud be used with a lab x retriever.

Of course you can find owners of anything prepared to let their dog be bred to anything whatsoever - but surely you want a fully health-tested stud with a reputable performance pedigree and an experienced stud owner to help manage the mating? Not just Joe Bloggs two doors down from you who happens to own a golden retriever and fancies letting their dog have a go...

>My dog is my world and if her pups are half as good as her I’ll be over the moon.

But that's the problem: The pups are just as likely to take after whatever stud dog you use, than the bitch. And you are not going to have access to many 'good' dogs (whatever that means) if you are deliberately breeding crossbreeds because no reputable owner will let their dog be used.

Even if you are breeding two pedigree dogs together, breeding is an art form. I've bred litters where pups take after only one parent - or in fact neither parents at all, resulting from earlier generations...

It's a fallacy to believe that you are somehow going to get another dog which is anything like your existing dog. Way too many people breed litters because they somehow want to replicate the bitch. But breeding just doesn't work like that. Especially since she is a crossbreed - you've no idea what you're going to get. Enjoy her for the one-of-a-kind that she is and don't put her through the stress and risk of having a litter only to produce puppies which are nothing like her...

Love this response onetwothreefour

Surprised responsible stud dog owners have told you they aren't bothered about the bitches their dogs are used on. Didn't they ask you about her health tests results ?

As you are doing agility with your bitch are agility people interested in her puppies ? Still interested to know what grade your bitch is

I will just say I've got three generations and they are all very different, you certainly don't get a 'mini me' when breeding. 

Just out of interest, were her parents health tested at all?

Way too many people breed litters because they somehow want to replicate the bitch. But breeding just doesn't work like that.

Exactly, this is a very important point. I had a fantastic purebred Champion bitch, she was my dog in a million and my foundation bitch. When I lost her aged 14 I desperately tried to get one of her relatives to "replace" her eg. being the same as her, as I missed her so much. I had sons and daughters, grandchildren and even great grandchildren from her. All quality purebred dogs. Not even the closest relatives such as her daughter was anything like her mother. They were their own personalities. Even though you could see similarities in the way they looked and acted, nobody could quite live up to her as far as I was concerned. I had pups and hoped that keeping a puppy and as far as possible repeating exactly what I had done with my original bitch as a pup would give me a dog similar to the one I had lost. I spent four years trying and trying to turn my bitch's family into her. Of course it didn't work! Not even littermates are the same in everything. I'm not like my mother! My bitch was a Malinois, and after four years I got the chance to get the breed I had wanted ever since I was a child, and I bought a Poodle. The Poodle is the only dog I have that has become as close to me as my original Mali bitch was, the only one that has been able to fill that empty space. You couldn't find two more different breeds and THAT was the key. The other Malis I can now appreciate in their own way, not just as grandchildren etc. So no, breeding from a bitch because you want to get a puppy just like their mother does not work!

Not one of my Labrador bitches is the same, the oldest is a real softy, highly intelligent, her daughter is also incredibly intelligent but likes to do her own thing, and the youngest is more biddable and incredibly intelligent, I've just got to work on her standing like a bloomin husky at the minute!

Same here! I kept one girl back and although she’s gorgeous and similar to mum, she’s also very different! I’d also like to add that just because a dog is amazing doesn’t mean they’ll make amazing mothers. You’ll only find out that she’s a good mum (hopefully once you’ve done all relevant health tests which you can find on the kc website, if she’s a cross lab x retriever then I’d do as many as possible from both sides! Hips, elbows and eyes being the minimum if stud has all dna tests done) once the pups are here. I helped with a girl, years back, who was excellent in every way but when it came to the pups arriving me and her owner basically had to rear the litter our selves, which doesn’t sound as bad as it was. She had 10 pups, two very small ones, and we had to feed them every 2-3hours. Thankfully her owner was very experienced so knew how to tube feed them, and taught me- if she hadn’t of known then it would’ve been a massive bill at the out of hours vets, I’m talking at least over a thousand by how long it took some of them to want to feed from a teat bottle.  It was draining for us all, sleepless nights for weeks hoping they’d make it, all whilst worrying about mum too. 8 survived, one of the small ones didn’t make it and one of the biggest after a few days - he had fading puppy syndrome something that can’t be helped. Mum was ok too in the end but she had complications such as mastitis that resulted in further expense. (Not that the owner minded, purely trying to explain the costly expense as well as the mental draining side)

If you decide you really do want to breed your girl then she’ll need health tests doing, as I and others said previously, but also you need to find someone experienced to help you. Most of the time breeding a dog isn’t having two dogs mating and then pups arriving then off to their homes plain sailing, it can be awful. And that experience is one of the better ones. Unfortunately I’ve also helped, usually too late, with litters where mum and/or pups haven’t made it at all - it’s worth noting that some of these could’ve been helped had there been someone experienced involved and not just purely listening to vets (who often don’t know much about breeding)

I agree my flat coat is related to my first for . I wanted one who may be similar to Josie but although the  lines were hers Brooke is herself through and through not a replica .
Yes we love her just the same but not another Josie

> Lab x retriever is a very common breed

Not a breed but a cross,

Please don't close your mind, to the posts that have been add to this thread. People are giving you sound advice, of their experience, some may not be what you want to hear but its given with the best of intentions

> Hip scores, elbow scores and all test are new to me. Being a cross breed does she need to have all these tests.

If your going to breed her yes. Cross breeds should have all the health testing required for all the breed in them. So for your girl that would be Hip scoring, Elbow scoring, Eye testing, DNA tests for: ICT-A, GR_PRA1, GR_PRA2, CNM, EIC, HNPK, prcd PRA, SD2.

> Also would owners of a pure stud dog (looking for a golden retriever stud dog) be happy to breed with a cross breed.

Most responsible breeders wouldn't be happy to let their dogs being used on a cross no unless perhaps it's a purpose bred litter for working/sports/outcross maybe. Make sure any stud is also fully health tested. For a golden your looking at the hip, elbow, Eye testing and the first three DNA tests.

> My dog is my world and if her pups are half as good as her I’ll be over the moon.

And THIS is the problem.   With mix breeding quite often no two puppies in the litter are the same, physically, never mind anything else.   People with pet males are often flattered if somebody asks to use their dogs, so the fact all the people with Retrievers have apparently been ok with letting their dog be used worries me - 5 really?  They should be as concerned as the owner of the bitch - they are 50% responsible for the puppies their dog sires.  At least with a purebred mating, you should know what you'll be getting as they will 'breed true'.  When I had a couple of males at public stud, I turned away more enquires than I allowed to use them because I cared about what the outcome of a particular mating might be.

And if you care that much for your bitch, remember that every time you put her in whelp, her life is at risk if it all goes pear-shaped.

As for a long list of homes - it's amazing how often once the litter is born, they have all gone elsewhere in the meantime!   And you'd be left with perhaps a dozen hungry mouths to feed who will cost you a fortune.

Please love her for the wonderful companion she obviously is and don't put her through motherhood when there's no need.

>As for a long list of homes - it's amazing how often once the litter is born, they have all gone elsewhere in the meantime!

And THIS is the voice of experience!  So true, so true.

> Wasn’t banking on people being so aposed to looking for a retriever to breed with.

They aren't, they're opposed to yet another litter being born in a world heaving with litters being born when there doesn't appear to be a really sound reason for it - i.e. producing excellent working type or agility dogs, that sort of thing.

You'd have had exactly the same responses regardless of the breed of the stud you're looking for, and that's exactly how it should be, because casual breeding is wildly out of control in this country (and everywhere) and desperately needs reigning in.

Can I just add (and I don't mean to be picky, but as an owner of Golden Retrievers it is a pet hate of mine!) Your bitch isn't a breed, she's a cross BUT she is a Labrador Retriever x Golden Retriever, or a Lab x Golden if you prefer, but she is not a Lab x retriever
I'm also surprised 5 people with stud dogs would accept her, are they health tested? members of a breed club? Our breed clubs do not allow cross breeding unless to produce verified assistance dogs.