I lost my girl on the 3rd January and always advise "get a puppy or rescue immediately" You will never replace the one you have lost but you will fill that aching gap in your heart and in your life and home. That's what I did and sadly I was scammed by what turned out to be an unscrupulous puppy farmer. More heartbreak and then lockdown. Since then I have been following and registering on various sites including here and I have contacted by email via champ dogs several Golden Retriever breeders within my local area and I am so disappointed that not one breeder has responded to my email even to say "no puppies but got your message." As a professional person, I consider that bad manners, however perhaps the emails are going through a server and breeders are not aware that they have received emails unless they log-on to champ dogs so this is my plea, it's bad enough to have lost not one but two forever friends without having to wonder if the emails I have sent are not being received or just being ignored. I thought long and hard about posting this - it not exactly the way to win friends and be favoured with a response but if breeders do not realise that people are trying to contact them, perhaps they will logon and see if there are messages waiting for them from folk like me who can then scratch them off the list or look forward with hope in their heart.
I'm now going to carefully step off my soapbox and give someone else a chance. BTW. if there are any breeders in the Ayrshire or near the area for a Golden Retriever puppy or rehoming opportunity - please feel free to contact me
Blessings Soraya Conway

Having just lost one of my two, I feel for you.   However, although I'm not having any luck finding another possibility, I have come to the conclusion that this 'enforced' delay is good in that it stops me acting in haste, and maybe living to regret it.

Meanwhile his companion seems to be fine, stopped looking at his crate and has lately been playing a bit with her Kong Wubba - mind you she is 11.5 now so wasn't doing that quite so much even before we lost him.  She's being taken shopping with us too (staying with my husband in the car or being walked round the carpark).  Having to leave her alone at home at some point, worries me.

For me, ignoring an email is rude, but then again, some breeders simply don't bother unless they do have a litter with puppies available.

Sorry to hear you are having difficulty contacting breeders. Whilst not an immediate fix, you can set up email alerts from the kennel club puppy finder whenever a new litter with available pups is registered:

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/findapuppy/display.aspx?breed=2047&area=0

Alternatively you could contact your local breed club. They should be able to advise you which breeders are expecting litters and/or have puppies available.

GRCS is the local breed club and currently there are no litters or upcoming litters listed.  Be careful, the puppy farmers and scammers are out in force

What are you saying, in your emails to them?  TBH, I'm getting so many emails at the moment that I'm not replying to them when they say things like 'do you have any puppies?' or 'when is your next litter?' or anything which isn't a detailed introduction of themselves and what they could offer as a home.

Welcome to the forum and I am sorry to hear about your dog.

A consequence of lockdown is that every breeder listed with us is receiving an unprecedented number of emails requesting puppies at the moment. I am sure that someone will get back to you when they have worked their way through (what can amount to hundreds) of emails if they have puppies available or a litter planned.

Im sorry about your loss - Thank you for replying - and yes it is rude -

Thank you for that - as it happens I am already registered on  the puppy finder but appreciate your advice

yep as I have already discovered - I am being cautious now and thought I was before - She advertised kennel club registered puppies - I'm a published author but I am also dyslexic and I misread that as kennel club registered breeder - Karma is a wonderful thing though and what goes around comes around.
Thank you for rsponding

I have completely explained my situation and introduced myself even added my web address so that they could check me out if necessary  - I emphasised that I am not looking for a lockdown dog  too

I totally understand that breeders are receiving hundreds of emails but honestly - that's just not a good enough excuse - I am a published author and fr 20 years a well-known columnist with national newspapers and magazines - The Sunday Post, and My Weekly Magazine to name a couple - Hundreds of email- just checked my inbox for the week - it's sitting at 300 odd (to be sorted into folders) and every one of them has been answered - no it not the number of emails its bad manners or bad management - sorry if that offends anyone but the truth often hurts.
When you are in business it is vital to respond to your potential clients even if your "product or service" is not available - Its not about only responding when you have something to offer or sell. Good manners and best practice should always be the way to go.
I appreciate your response though Thank you

I can't speak for anyone else I can only speak for myself - I have politely asked to be added to their waiting list and explained where I live (very rural) and why I am looking for a forever companion.
I have to say though, "Have you any puppies?" being asked of a breeder is an opening to which the breeder can respond with a "copy and paste" template asking the questions that are important. If you expect more than that (albeit a stinted question)  you should make that clear in the first instance.
I appreciate your response.

> When you are in business

I would just like to pick up on this point. For quite a number of breeders, it is NOT a business having a litter.

I have replied to most of the emails I have received but I am getting fed up with the amount enquires I am getting to be honest.
A couple of points for you to consider....Once a person stops paying for their yearly subscription, their details still remain on champdogs... I know of some on the breeders section(in my own breed) who no longer live at the address/email is out of date, so in this instance you wouldn't get a reply from them.

I understand your frustration but there can be another side of the coin...maybe when lockdown eases, you will get your dog you require.

obviously I have touched a sore point but let me point out something Lexy (with absolutely no offence intended)
If you are registered as a breeder with the Kennel Club and you breed pups which you sell I would presume your costs and earnings are declared and appropriate tax paid or not as the case may be. In my mind that makes what you do a business - if you have only ever had one litter and never have anymore it would be prudent and professional to have your listing as a breeder removed and that would stop the barage of emails that you don't actually want or need and in fact not de-listing yourself is only exacerbating the problem.
If you breed and sell pups and list them on a professional site - you are running a business and to deny that is again, unprofessional.
Further, I wouldn't really want to risk buying a Golden Retriever from someone who had no experience as a breeder - I would much rather discuss my forever companions needs with a professional KC Registered Breeder.
There is another way of course which is much simpler
I have only been registered here a short while but I have noticed that when I click on a breeders page there is a statement which either says "Waiting list closed", or "All Puppies sold" or "No litters expected" but I suppose its the professionally minded breeders who do that and it's very helpful.
I am sorry if I rattled you, not my intention, I hope you will accept this as my apology and final word on the matter as I have much more to think about and occupy myself with. Stay safe and well
Blessings to you and yours
Soraya

> KC Registered Breeder

Do you mean someone who belongs to the Assured Breeder Scheme?

of course -

Ok, just like to say that don't assume that all on the Assured Breeders Scheme are experienced, same as please don't assume, just as one may not be on the ABS, they are not experienced.

Again, good luck with the search to find what you are looking for.

Sometimes I don’t answer my phone, it’s not compulsory.

> Sometimes I don’t answer my phone, it’s not compulsory.

Too true!   We let incoming calls go to the answerphone, especially in the evening - if people really want to get in touch, they can leave a message.

In my mind that makes what you do a business -

It's not you who decides whether a breeder is a business though, it's the breeder's local council. And not all so called hobby breeders are classed as businesses. Many excellent breeders only have one litter every few years.

That doesn't excuse breeders not replying, of course. But personally I would stay well clear of any breeder that considered themselves a business. Red flag number one.

> I am a published author and fr 20 years a well-known columnist with national newspapers and magazines - The Sunday Post, and My Weekly Magazine to name a couple - Hundreds of email- just checked my inbox for the week - it's sitting at 300 odd (to be sorted into folders) and every one of them has been answered -

But presumably the majority of those emails relate to work.  Which you would be paid for.

If you were receiving 300 emails a day asking if you sold tomatoes, just because you grew some a couple of summers ago, you might decide it's not a good use of your time right now to reply to every one...

Frankly it has reached the point where I wrote one email which I now copy and paste to people who email me...

>If you are registered as a breeder with the Kennel Club

The Kennel Club doesn't register breeders; it registers puppies.

>If you breed and sell pups and list them on a professional site - you are running a business and to deny that is again, unprofessional.

The law is quite clear on what is a business and what isn't. Three or more litters each year is a business; less than that isn't. And many of the very best breeders will only have a litter every 2 or 3 years.

>I would much rather discuss my forever companions needs with a professional KC Registered Breeder.

Again, this is something that doesn't exist. Do you mean an Assured Breeder (who might only have a litter very infrequently) or a council licenced (ie, commercial) breeder (often these are puppy farmers)?

Well, I'm glad I've got your juices flowing - interestingly enough it was a council licensed breeder who scammed me. in your words - "the very best breeders will only have a litter every 2 or 3 years" having up to say seven pups each year for three years selling them at £2000 each That's a tidy sum for the taxman to consider that it's not a business - and I don't really care to be honest - All I wanted was professional courtesy and have my polite informative emails answered. There appears to be a bit of unpleasantness about here - sad really and it just adds to the disappointment. it a shame that some folk aren't more like the Golden Retriever breed, happy, loving, and sharing

Actually in reference to your comment "presumably the majority of those emails relate to work.  Which you would be paid for." I did not and would not take one penny from any individual to answer their emails which more often than not required considerable counseling.
what exactly does this mean
If you were receiving 300 emails a day asking if you sold tomatoes, just because you grew some a couple of summers ago, you might decide it's not a good use of your time right now to reply to every one...

The more I read here the more disappointed I become - thanks for your tuppence worth

Back to the original question. Although its irritating and maybe cinsidered rude , given all the difficulties of the current situation I think a little lasitude should be given 
We never know what others are dealing with that may mean something  that appears very simple can actually   be low on the list of priorities

£2000 for a well bred Golden Retriever in Scotland is way over the odds.

> There appears to be a bit of unpleasantness about here - sad really and it just adds to the disappointment

There are people making comments here, who are trying to give you some very valid guidance. Ok, maybe some are off your original topic but they are points to consider/aid you into finding a dog.

In the comments I have made, I have been polite in my replies/questions!!

There is a lot more to breeding than a price a puppy cost.

The KC do NOT register breeders, they register dogs. They have the ABS of course, but it is NOT a register of breeders, it's a scheme that tries to promote breeding better healthier puppies

Most "professional"breeders ie people whose occupation is breeding dogs, are NOT IMHO the best people to get a puppy from. For example the person in UK who breeds more ISDS registered WSD/BC than everyone else, is a professional breeder who breeds & earns more from their dogs than they do their farming activities. Sadly their dogs are not the healthiest not best quality puppies either. They are LA licensed because of the number of puppies.they produce annually.

Puppies should NOT be bred to satisfy.the buyers market. A friend of mine waited for 5 years to find THE dog for them, they could have bought one from a "professional"breeder, but I doubt they would still have him now aged 12 1/2 years.

Sadly buyers are so used to being able to get what they want immediately that they think puppies should be available in the same way.

I had a friend who used rescue Great Danes , she got a phone call that went" I want a rescue Great Dane bitch aged between 16 weeks & 9 months old, a perfected marked harlequin of good type & temperment with papers now." My friend asked"Dont we all" & put the phone down.

Have you considered that talking to breeders might be a more sucessful approach ?

That works both ways and to be honest, I am done with this - I expressed my disappointment and didn't expect such a defensive onslaught  - I guess it just proves that even on a Saturday night when I have more to think about  I still answer my emails
Thanks to everyone for their continued support - If I had an emoji it would be crying but there isn't a crying emoji available

Forgive me if I laugh out loud - talking would be great if numbers were always available. but thank you anyway -

yes there is - you are right - and if I bought a puppy from you I would expect that you had done your best as a responsible breeder - The internet is full of negative comments about breeder now charging up to and over £3000, a hike of more than a thousand so they are not all ethical it's not the cost its a new life an knowing that you are not being scammed - yes you have been polite thank you but there is just a feeling of, perhaps defence is the right word - anyway whatever the right word to describe this is irrelevant
I have gone from despair at losing my dog to further despair at losing a puppy via a scammer then eager anticipation on this site registering for a puppy to feeling as though I have done something wrong
all I wanted was my email answered - is that too much to ask

> I have gone from despair at losing my dog to further despair at losing a puppy via a scammer

Maybe this hasn't helped your emotion, along with lockdown.

> all I wanted was my email answered - is that too much to ask

Admin have replied to this thread but you do not seem to have accepted their reasoning either.

Hopefully in the coming weeks, you will get a reply. Try to treat the wait as a positive thing & the right puppy is out there, maybe not yet but soon

just keep looking but I don't think there are any spare health tested responsibly bred puppies about at the moment sadly.  regarding emails- when I was looking last year I never even got a reply off a breed club, and I'd say 50% of breeders ignored my emails too and there was no pandemic then..  I just figured if not interested before even got the money then won't be any help if need advice after got a puppy so a fortunate escape not to buy off people like that.   There is  a shortage at the moment but it won't last- give it 6 months and there will be more folk planing litters . plus I sadly suspect there will be a lot of young lock down purchased dogs up for rehoming ..

in your words - "the very best breeders will only have a litter every 2 or 3 years" having up to say seven pups each year for three years selling them at £2000 each That's a tidy sum for the taxman to consider that it's not a business -

I think you might have misunderstood that comment. It wasn't a breeder having a litter every year, but with a 2 or 3 year gap between each litter. At the moment I have one litter consisting of 4 pups, and my previous litter was in 2017. My breed is not selling for four figures, far from all breeds are, and typically the breeder keeps a pup and will have spent a lot of money on health testing, stud fees etc, so it's not unusual for good breeders to make a loss. That's because dogs are a hobby to us -not just the breeding part, in fact that is the smallest part, but showing, competing in other disciplines, training etc, and hobbies tend to cost money.

I understand that it must be very frustrating to not get replies from breeders, especially as you appear to be offering a good, experienced home AND have explained in your e-mails about your situation. If I get enquiries where people take the time to explain about themselves and their situation, then I'd always take the time to reply and wherever possible recommend another breeder, if I don't have pups planned. Maybe it would be an idea for you to contact all the Golden Retriever clubs, not just those in Scotland? Be prepared to travel and to wait. That will give you a better chance to find a pup from a good breeder.

> Frankly it has reached the point where I wrote one email which I now copy and paste to people who email me...

I'm doing the same and may add something extra if it requires it. I have zero plans this year for a litter and very few people in my breed who are reputable are either, most have had a full waiting list prior to the mating even taking place.

I try and help guide them to what they should be looking for, health tests etc but telling them to wait is not what they seem to want to hear. I fear they will fall into the realms of the glorfiied puppy farmers and bybs if they are so desperate and many are charging double what a reputable breeder charges

> in your words - "the very best breeders will only have a litter every 2 or 3 years" having up to say seven pups each year for three years selling them at £2000 each

I actually wrote "many of the very best breeders will only have a litter every 2 or 3 years" - but how you interpret that as having 7 puppies each year for three years escapes me! If a breeder has a litter, then waits 2 or 3 years to have the next litter, how is that 7 puppies a year? Also not many breeds sell for £2000 each, most are still considerably less than that, although there are always people who are seizing the opportunity to profiteer from the understandable shortage of litters at this time. If you're determined to think of puppies as a monetary commodity like a chest of drawers, think of it more as 7 puppies every three years selling for £1000 each but costing several hundred pounds (as long as nothing goes wrong) to raise. So maybe £5000 every 3 years - about £1600 a year.

Thank you for taking the time to respond Sue jaw
Blessings Soraya

you twist and turn everything - does it make you happy -

Thank you Goldmali
Yes, I have contacted many breeders and also requested to "be kept in mind" if a rescue dog or bitch becomes available. Waiting is another matter as the tumour on my kidney (which at the moment is doing nothing) may have other ideas and if I do manage to have another Goldie that outlives me, my granddaughters will give a loving home.
Blessings Soraya

I agree - so many will return lockdown dogs - and you are right it does put people off, unresponsive breeders.
Thank you for responding Weimed.

I know many breeders are not bothering to reply unless there is some info and enquiry is saying they are willing to wait etc.
I'm getting a higher proportion just asking "for you have any puppies? I am after a dog/bitch, thank you"

The ones who have called me it is clear they don't want to wait.
I have tried to explain socialising a puppy is hard work right now and no dog training classes are allowed to run either.

All in all it isn't really the best time to be getting a puppy even with people currently wfh or not working at all.

There will be the genuine new owners who have planned this and feel now regardless of the pandemic is a good time for them.
The KC have said enquiries have gone up 120% since lockdown, that is a massive worry.

I've not read all the replies, but the implications that a 'good breeder' will be making a tidy sum is way off mark.  In the whole of my breeding plans my foundation bitch turned out to have a poor elbow grade, which, although the vet mucked up and I was still advised to breed on from some breeders, I chose not to so the money spent health testing her came to absolutely no puppies whatsoever, I recently lost her aged 14 1/2; I can think of a few breeders who, having found their dogs have less than perfect health test results would have moved them on straight away, some even advertising them as health tested and entire. 

Her half sister had great health test results and taught me a lot about training gundogs, she had one litter by emergency c-section and out of the 8 pups only 6 survived and I kept one back, and I still have both those bitches now.  My other breed, FCR I have a fully health tested bitch who is an astounding worker, I tried on three occasions to have a litter from her, all unsuccessful, including a last ditch attempt at AI. 

The daughter I kept back has had a total of 2 litters, first litter she produced 6 healthy pups, one of which I ran on free of charge for someone who desperately wanted one of my pups from Germany.  And I had a second litter, a repeat mating and hoped she'd have a similar number, but no, she had 11, which, although I might have made a small profit on that one litter, all the rest were losses, and not small losses, and the second litter breaking even. 

To any good breeder, it's not about the money in any case, it's about producing good quality puppies from fully health tested backgrounds, with lots of research, none of which they charge extra for.  I am amazed at how some breeders are able to bung two dogs together and charge a huge amount for puppies, and if I was 'business minded' I'd not have produced a litter knowing all the pups were going to be black, twice, as there is a premium for nicely bred chocolate Labrador pups, which many seem to take advantage of.  In fact I brought this up with the ABS several years ago, with a website saying they are dedicated to breeding chocolate Labradors, ABS member, doing the minimum required health tests, and the ABS person I was speaking to simply said, at least they are health testing. 

The assumptions you have made in the thread that breeders are making a nice bit of profit on the side, 'having up to say seven pups each year for three years selling them at £2000 each That's a tidy sum for the taxman to consider that it's not a business' - firstly, I don't sell my pups for that amount, maybe I could, but I choose to sell them at what I think is a fair price for the time and investment I've made in my dogs.  I've had three litters in eight years, pricing my pups at the 'bottom' of what I'd say the average price is for a nicely bred pup, because for me, it's not about the money, the best homes are what I want for my pups. Overall, I've made losses, so my business plan wouldn't really be a very good one, but I have a good job which means I'm able to support my hobby.  What many don't see from the outside are the hidden costs, the health testing, progesterone testing, fuel, stud dog fees, whelping equipment, increased electricity, washing machine on full time, extra food for dogs, puppies etc, KC registration, microchipping, even things like putting a puppy pack together, all costs money.  I'm not an ABS member, I wouldn't want it gifted to be quite honest, as there are just far too many people using it as a 'stamp of quality' and doing the bare minimum and cutting corners, I go above what the ABS requires their members to do as requires health testing in any case.  So when I see that I'm told I must be making a profit it really makes me shake my head. 

None of this is meant as a criticism to the OP, but just to try and help them understand that their assumptions about all breeders making money, and so should therefore want to answer all emails/enquiries, is really off the mark.  I'm sure there are plenty of breeders out there that do make money at it, I can think of a few off the top of my head who I know make their living from their dogs and who might want to answer all enquiries, but that is certainly not the case for every breeder. 

I do, as it happens, try to answer most emails, I must admit I have had a few where I just simply despair and haven't had the will to type out a response, or if I have it has been a short reply to say that I don't have any pups available or planned litters.  I help more people find puppies from other breeders than I have sold puppies in my time as a breeder, and try to help those enquiring understand the health tests and what to look for in a breeder, as does anyone who is passionate about their breed and wants to help puppy owners. But it is my prerogative as to whether I want to reply to an enquiry, and when I do choose to reply, I am often times disappointed that despite taking the time to explain health tests, how to look through a pedigree etc, etc, I then hear from them to say they've got a puppy and when they show me the details they've obviously ignored every single bit of advice I've passed on to them.  But then I understand that my advice is given freely, and if they choose to ignore it that is entirely up to them, as it is entirely up to me as to whether I invest the time in replying to them in the first place.

What a great post sleeping lion . It should be kept  permanently for potential owners to read and get more of an understanding of the ups and downs of breeding and what it actually can involve.

I agree, an excellent, informative and helpful post, S/L

I will always make a point of replying to any emails enquiring about puppies but I know others in my breed do not. I ask that the emailer contact me by phone for a chat about my dogs and my plans and find that very few take me up on that offer. I like to talk to people as I find email, text etc to be too impersonal.

Have you contacted any of the breed club secretaries by phone? That's always the best place to start.

Hi There Biffsmum
honestly I feel as though I am turning into a stalker - I have contacted secretaries etc. I too prefer to phone but that must be worse for folk who get hundreds of calls so generally I will send and email or text message first thn follow up with a phone call if I can
Blessings Soraya

>you twist and turn everything - does it make you happy -

I do apologise; I thought that as a published author you'd understand how the inclusion or omission of a word can change the meaning of a sentence. My apologies again.

First off sorry for the loss of your last two dogs, that must be terribly hard on you.

I'm sure last time I had a message threw champ dogs  I got an email saying you have had a message and could read it both in the message and by going to your account. So don't think it's a site issue.

Sadly some breeders are not good at getting back to people When they do not have a litter which can be frustrating (trust me I know i  had it when I was looking for my first dog) they could be the type that don't want to know if they don't have a puppy to sell or they could not be but is an innocent reason they have not yet replied, especially at the moment. It could be say they may be sick of God forbid passed on, extra busy at work or home so less time to check personal emails, have new contact but forgot to update the site, your email has ended up going to the junk folder (I've had this happen with puppy enquires before), they ment to reply later but then slipped their minds.
While yes these may not be professional excuses keep in mind that most breeders do not breed as a business, the dogs are their pets first and the aim in breeding for them it to continue the lines and often all the extra stuff a good breeder does leads to smaller or no profit from a litter, so as the dog side of their lives are not their business they will also have their normal lives/work as well. This can lead to slower replies then the breeders who do breed as a business, but to be honest I wouldn't want to buy from a commercial breeder as their main aim will be making a profit as any business does where as a hobby breeders aim keep to breed good dogs profit be dammed.

I try to reply to.every one even when I have no plans even if it's just a quick one saying 'sorry have on plans' although if someone has taken the time to write more than just 'have u any puppies' I like to send a longer email.back advising them what to look for and recommend them Some other people to try. Although I will admit I am bad at checking my emails, I don't check them every day and sometimes if it's not going to be a quick few words reply I'll think to myself I'll reply later in the day or in morning when I have more time to type it' but then life gets in the way and my few hours later has turned into a day or two or three.


I can only advise to keep trying and try not to let it get you down. Try breed clubs incase they know of any plans. if it's just your local ones you have tried try further afield, If your sending the same email each time with no luck consider changing it incase something with it isn't coming across well.