Hi All, been a while since I ventured here and even longer since I had a female pup to worry about! Just wondering what the current advice is re spaying a female puppy? My vets want to spay at 4/5 months old (Cavapoo), is this the right time? Feels very early.
I toyed with keyhole but think I'm going for a classic spay, removing uterus as well as ovaries to minimise any chance of later problems. My thoughts were (admittedly haven't researched this since 20 years ago!) to let the bitch have a first season and then spay 3 months after. I quickly googled and was hit with 'mammary tumors reduced if spayed before first season'.
What is the current advice out there and can anyone offer any thoughts? Interested to hear views. Thanks

I have a 10 month whippet puppy. likewise vet said 5-6 months.  I did some reading up and yes it reduces risk of mammary tumours but it increases risks of lots of other things so my pup has been left to have a season (which happened April).  I am planning on having her spayed in August - that is viewed as a bit young by some, too old by others but to me is a happy compromise. I think the season she has had did mature her mentally a fair bit- she is still a puppy but seems more grown up and less loopy.  I will be opting for a classic spay with a body suit for when she comes home - she is used to wearing jumpers in chilly weather and I think she will find it less stressful then an elizabethon collar.

Is your vet aware that prepubescent neutering of dogs stops the epiphyseal plates closing at the correct time ?

The testosterone & oestrogen produced during puberty trigger the closure of epiphyseal plates. Remove the main source before puberty means the closure is delayed & the bone growth continues, resulting in skeletal problems.

It is also linked to bone that is weaker/finer than that found in dogs that go through puberty( ie natural bone density.

I have met vets who are totally unaware of the direct link between the sex hormones & epiphyseal plate closure. Some do not close for over 12 months of age depending on the size/ breed of dog etc. If your vet doesn't believe this then he/she should do a whole body x ray( at no cost)to prove the epiphyseal plates have closed BEFORE neutering to validate their actions

I currently have 2 retrievers and 2 cockapoos and have had dogs all my life. None of my bitches have been spayed until after they have had their first season as I feel they need to go through all the hormone changes during a season. I have also read that an early spay can result in incontinence when they are older. My last retriever lived until 16.5 years and even then, when she had very weak back legs, she didn't have incontinence. None of my dogs. all very l.ong lived, developed breast or any other tumours. There are pros and cons on both sides of the argument but I have never seen the necessity to spay a puppy. If I were you I would just go with your instincts.

I never spay any of my girls. However if there was a medical need, then of course I would.

https://www.wolftucker.co.uk/blog/neutering-your-dog-making-an-informed-decision/

This link applies to all dogs, not just gundogs!

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gundogs/health/neutering-dogs-90439.

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Just one more.

http://affinitydogtraining.co.uk/training-info/neutering/

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In a nutshell not before fully mature mentally and physically as everyone above has said . Individual stories of how early neither didn't affect someone's dog arnt reliable. The big studies and there are quite a few show otherwise
Unfortunately vets often see less than responsibly owners whose dogs get pregnant and this often makes them assume everyone will be the same .

Yes there are some cancers which maybe prevented but far more issues that are risked by early neuter in both Male and female dogs .https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/dog-neutering/  not the article I was looking for but covers most points .

Cruciate ligament damage is becoming more and more common and some insurance co
wont cover .another condotion that is increased by early neuter
All in all dogs male or female need their hormones for correct growth

Well fwiw. when our Whippet was around 6 months, with an elderly and not too well Basset here at the time who didn't need to be anywhere near a bitch in season under the same roof, even if separated, I talked to my then vet re getting her spayed.   He urged me to let her have one season first, citing bone problems (growth plate closure) and the potential for spay incontinence if done before.  I agreed to wait and made arrangements with a local kennel to board her (rather them him as he was, again, not a well boy) when she came in.   That hadn't happened, no sign, by around 11 months, so I asked him to go ahead and do the spay.  She may have grown on some (taller?) but otherwise, she's been fine .... she's 11.5 years now.

No way would I have any puppy spayed at 5- 6 months!

I refuse to have any bitch spayed before 4 years of age.

> I refuse to have any bitch spayed before 4 years of age.

There is a school of thought that suggests the longer a bitch remains entire, the increased risk there is of mammary cancer.   However, as our bitches, bar our Whippet and another Basset, were normally not spayed until retired, which meant not until over 6 years, we only had one to developed mammary cancer when she was in her 13th year.   I had mine spayed to avoid the continued need to confine them for 3 weeks, usually every 8 months going into old age and to reduce the angst amongst my boys.

I'd like any vet that suggests your bitch needs spaying to give you a letter offering free treatment for any development problems or conditions relating to early spay.  If they agree to that, then they're either uneducated about the risks from early spay/neuter, or they know they're not doing the best thing for your pup in which case directly contravening their own code of ethics.

Hi all, thanks so much for all the info and links to current advice. Lots to read through and try and decipher. Glad it wasn't just me worrying about the early vets advice. I chose not to have my male GR neutered because of all the increased risks to health in GR's in the studies in particular. But a female I definitely will spay as I'm not planning on breeding from her, and also (again going back to my knowledge from 20 yrs ago!), remember that having litters can help guard against some issues too, so unfortunately won't have that benefit.
I was mostly surprised they wanted to do her so early due to the current Coronavirus! To me it is a non emergency procedure especially so young, so the fact they are wanting her in before her first season (she is currently 4.5 months) was quite a shock.
Thanks again

I take it that your female pup is a GR as well?

It's redommended that you leave spaying until approx 18 months in order to allow her to finish growing and that the growth plates have closed. Goldens are a bit slow to mature and really need that extra time.

I've had four. First one was spayed after her first season as the vet recommended this. The next two were spayed before their first season, again recommended by the vet I was seeing then, but both were about 10 months when it was done. The one I have now was spayed after her first season as close to 18 months as I could get her. I ended up needing to get her spayed a little earlier then I intended as she was going to stay with her breeders for 6 weeks who have a number of male dogs all very closely related and I didn't want her coming into season there which seemed highly likely.

The two that were spayed early did have some issues. Older dog was tall and rather leggy and her hind legs were straighter then normal. Younger dog did have a crusciate repair when she was 8, whether this was due to early spaying or other circumstances is unknown.

I was pushed to spay my current dog by a locum working at the vets, but I firmly told her that she would be having at least one season before that happened. My normal vet lets me make up my own mind and doesn't push me one way or the other.

> My vets want to spay at 4/5 months old (Cavapoo), is this the right time? Feels very early

I am very surprised, as my vet cancelled my appointment, to have my 3.5 year old bitch spayed!

Yes 5 months is far too young to spay, not just my opinion but many others(you have probably seen other posts on this by now).

I personally would never choose to spey  before a first season. That’s like having a hysterectomy before your first period !
I was lucky that my current dog didn’t have her first season until around 9 months, so she was just past one when spayed.

I base my neuter decisions on an article that totally makes sense to me.  Although it may be long, I feel it is well worth reading prior to deciding whether to spay a bitch, or castrate a dog.

If you google:

Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs
Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.
May 14, 2007

I still feel the article is relevant today.

> My normal vet lets me make up my own mind and doesn't push me one way or the other.

I view any vet who does push this as 'money grabbing' which alone would have me moving on ......................

I don't spay my female dogs until they are 8yo now, and I'm considering just not spaying them at all and dealing with pyo if and when it happens.

This is based on all the research there is which vets appear to be ignorant of (for some very weird reason I don't understand, since they claim to be evidence based on so much else).

Here is a link to some papers:  https://www.avidog.com/research-on-the-effects-of-spaying-and-neutering/

As said, most of our bitches were spayed on retirement (ie over 6 -7 years).  We never had a Pyo and I truly believe that's because none of our girls went off our property when in season.   They were low to ground and so could well have squatted somewhere that might have introduced infection when they were 'wide open'.   I have nothing to medically back up this notion - just my own observation and experience.