Hi All

My sheltie Grace has had her anal glands expressed a couple of times by the vet and recently I notice again she does a lot of scooting along the ground,  I imagine a sign of them needing doing again.  I feel I should know how to do this myself but I haven't a clue.  With things as they are at the moment and the vets busy (you have to sit in the car and the vet comes and takes dog off into surgery for examination so you don't have time for much of a consultation) I don't feel it right to ask him to do it.  Do vet nurses do this do you know?  I think groomers do occasionally but they aren't working at the moment.  There is a product sold I see called Glandex which promises firmer stools  which they say should prevent the problem but Grace is on so many other treatments for one thing and another .....

What do others do?

I externally empty them myself every week, when she’s in the shower.

I have never had to have any of my dogs expressed manually, even those that weren't raw fed.  Some dogs have their glands positioned in such a way that makes natural expression difficult.  If yours isn't one of those, have you tried adding fibre to the diet?   Sweet potato is excellent at providing natural fibre and I find it helps with loose stools which can cause glands to fill.   Others I know add bran.  Sticking to natural stuff shouldn't interfere with any medications she is on.

Vet nurses do, I can't recall ever having a vet do it when I've taken a dog in for it.

I would try to sort at home first though.  Psyllium husk is great for it and it doesn't take much, you just have to leave it for 10 minutes to swell up in water before you give it with a meal and it bulks out the poo.

You don't really want her to go through life needing to have her anal glands expressed frequently, surely?  Why not sort out her diet and eliminate whatever the toxins are, which are causing them to fill in the first place...?  Raw is a great option...

In case you don't know, these glands are not meant to be 'empty', releasing some of what's in there with the passing of every good/normal stool.  Once you start messing around with them, they will be uncomfortable for a while, until it all settles down again.  No dog should need to have them 'emptied' regularly PROVIDED the diet is right and a normal stool produced.   Sometimes when there is a period of abnormal stools, they will become impacted and often infected too.   And the infection will need treating by packing the glands with antibiotics.   And that too will be uncomfortable.

So look to the diet if this keeps happening so these glands can work correctly.  If emptied manually, they will fill up again, and if the reason for the problem isn't sorted out, will become a problem over and over again.

Occasionally they may need to be removed, but that's a nasty surgery, and to be avoided. 

Anybody who keeps manually emptying these glands, is doing the dog no favours.

Some dogs have anal glands that are deeper-set than the average, and these simply will not empty properly by natural methods alone. These dogs need assistance if they're not to form repeated impaction and infection, and any owner who allows this to happen is being very unkind to their dog.

I will try to sort out Grace's diet.  She normally eats JWB lamb & veg kibble with a small amount of wet food or chicken mixed in.  She is a very greedy eater.  Should I keep her on this and and add some bran or sweet potato, do you think?  Do you mean bran from a health food shop? She does seem to pass a lot of poo!

If you really want to improve the diet you have to move away from kibble.  The huge amounts of poo are because it passes so fast through the digestive system the food is being poorly absorbed on its way through.  It's also probably not satisfying her if she is greedy.  Switching to raw or fresher will have a fundamental impact on her digestion and for your current problem lack of stools firmness.  Smaller amounts of high quality canine appropriate food and less but firmer poos with no smell is what you need.   If you are going to make a change to her diet then consider raw completes.  So easy and beneficial.   If you are going to stick to kibble then adding bran or sweet potato will help but you ought to be able to fix the problem by fixing the fundamental diet (unless the anal glands are as said not positioned in a way that allows expression naturally.). I would recommend you take  a look at allaboutdogfood.co.uk and filter on raw (type of food).  You will see the nutritional ratings, most raw completes are in the 90% category.  You can also check the JWB nutritional rating on there.

I agree.  Move her to raw, for tiny and firm poops which will put pressure on the anal glands from the inside as they come out - causing them to do their job and provide the lubrication they are supposed to provide on the poop...

> tiny and firm poops which will put pressure on the anal glands from the inside as they come out

Large firm poops do a better job at emptying most dogs anal glands than small, firm poops, especially deep-set ones.

> Large firm poops do a better job at emptying most dogs anal glands than small, firm poops, especially deep-set ones.

Correct.   My Basset's AGs were deep set making it difficult for me to manually drain and, amongst all his other problems, causing the occasional impaction - much to my vet's delight, not.

LOL, all I can say is my dogs are raw fed and do small firm poops - and I've never had to express any anal glands (or have them expressed!).  Probably how firm the poop is matters more than its size...

My girls are raw fed for the most part, they get a few home made stews and appropriate left overs as well.  I've never had to have one of them have their anal glands done, and since we're talking about stools, they vary in size and shape, depending on what they've had.  If they've had quite a bit of whole bone in their diet then their stools tend to be larger and firmer, where as if they've had a home made stew then that makes for smaller poops, as does the commercially prepared minces.  If they have too much bone in their diet, then they can struggle to pass their stools, which is why I use the stews as a means of getting offal into them (they don't tolerate it raw very well, so it gets cooked and I use the stew to add in natural parasite preventatives as well) and also give them a bit of lubrication for their digestive system.

My adult Lhasa Apso has problem with her anal glands, they have actually burst twice so far leaving her with sore open wounds which need steroids and antibiotics.  The last time was at the end of last year and since then, her poops have been different.  Instead of nicely formed stools, she passes something more like rabbit droppings but slightly larger.  She doesn't evacuate her bowels in one go, rather she does them a bit at a time so I have loads of poops to pick up every day just from her.  She has also started to eat her meal then bring it up again- then eats it   Not at every meal but often enough to draw attention to it, maybe once or twice a week.
I am going to take her to the vet as soon as I can, but wondered if anyone else has had this issue with their dogs?  She is 10yrs old.
Many thanks in advance

I'd try to arrange a video consult with your vet - just because there is always inevitably a lot of explaining (talking!) that goes on when presenting the vet with something, and you can get all that done by video chat and the vet can think about what the next best step would be - and then if she needs further tests, it can all be swiftly done with minimal physical contact with you (ie not much talking to you needed in person!). 

Even when vet surgeries open up again, I think there is still a massive role for video consultations is what I'm trying to say...

Re vomiting and re-eating: does she eat very (too) quickly? My older dog did this, he “hoovered up” his food, then brought it back, almost seeming to need to “repack” it. A slow-feeding bowl forced him to eat less quickly, and resolved the problem.

I can’t really help with the stools, though, except my youngster is so eager to sniff that he’ll crouch, start evacuation, then shuffle along to get to a new smell, and repeat. I can easily use five poo-bags on a walk with him.

I'm a bit miffed that my vet is charging the same for a video consultation as they do for a regular one in person -£43 and I can't pick the vet i prefer
I've managed to have a couple of phone consults with her  at £20 which were fine but not being able to physically go to the vet when I choose is a massive source of anxiety to me.

> I'm a bit miffed that my vet is charging the same for a video consultation as they do for a regular one in person

It's the same with mine, except I didn't have the vid. option, just a phonecall and with the vet I wanted.   That was when I had to tell him about Frankie going off his back legs.   He upped his meds and when I went to pick them up, I found a bill with the usual basic consult. fee (+ VAT!!).   I guess they have to keep making a living.  I have to admit the next time I had to get in touch, I emailed them!!    I definitely would prefer the face to face consult.  Oooh, this blasted virus.....

Mine are charging the same for all consults regardless if on the phone or in one case at a distance in the carpark . but I have had a couple of free discussions regarding my concerns about my cat with kidney problems which was great

Our specialist vet who sees my dog for her allergies was able to offer a brilliant video consult so she could see the dog,and take pictures for records charged less than a usuall face to face. 
Financially like many mamy business this is going to affect them as well
Yes I would rather see the vet whenever I have a concern but thats going to be some while yet I guess while they have to only treat for emergencies . Overall they are doing a pretty good job and saving ppe for the health professionals

> I found a bill with the usual basic consult. fee (+ VAT!!)

VAT is of course not optional! It's a law.
We're charging half-price for a phone consultation, deducted from the final bill if we have to see the animal as a result of what we're told. No choice of vets, and no owners in the building (RCVS instructions - we've been told non-adherence to this is a strike-off offence); we'll talk to you through the open door (full PPE) then take the animal inside and do anything necessary.

Just to amend that I am not sure if or what a phone consult is costing as mine have ended up twice  needing to have the cat into the vet. That cost normal.fees plus treatment costs and overnight care. 
Then a couple of free discussions after that by phone .all very reasonable .
I cant choose which vet but communication between them.is excellent and wont cause a problem

Like doctors i wonder if this option of phone or video may continue in the" brave  new world "( thank u aldus huxley for.that one )
I can see how it could have a role that is a good option for somethings.
I've had hospital consultations by phone which have been good and would be happy to do again . Obviously cant work all the time

> VAT is of course not optional! <img class="fsm fsm_wink" src="/images/epx.png" title="wink" alt="" /> It's a law.

I know that   It's just that I object to the Government taking a VAT for medical attention they require me to provide (which I would regardless)!!   And as for adding it to euth bills - one of these days I'll start out with a banner protesting.    I have written in the past to our local MP who did raise it in Parliament, for what good that did!!

I believe my vet will charge the full whack for a phone or vid. consult. but if they need to see the animal, will deduct it.

When Frankie had to be pts, Richard came out, in full PPE and I slipped his lead (he wasn't going to take off!) and stood back while Richard put another on and tried to persuade him forward.   When he'd not move, he picked him up and carried him in - a vision I'll take to my grave.   Given Frankie still weighed around 35 kg. that was very much a clean and jerk.  Kudos to him.

Hi

Back to my initial post about poor Grace's anal glands.  On advice from some of you I have now been sprinkling a little bran on her meals and have cut down on the kibble too.  I have noticed a big improvement in her stools which are much firmer and I have had no more scooting.  Like some of the dogs mentioned above,  she walks around while pooing so the poos are scattered around the lawn.  But maybe that is a sheltie thing -my last sheltie did it too! 

Ah well onward and upward as they say!!

If you find the bran works, there is a fibre supplement for dogs - Protexin Profibre:  https://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-supplements-cat-supplements-prebiotic-probiotic-products-c-5_172/protexin-pro-fibre-for-dogs-and-cats-500g-p-769