Hi All

We have just bred our 2nd litter of [medium breed] puppies , and had very little problems with our girls first litter.

Our bitch gave birth to 10 pups, sadly pup number 7 and 8 came out dead and with green liquid in the sacks, 9 and 10 came out alive. All pups had nutr-idrops after birth to give them an initial boost.

Pup number 9 also sadly died on day eight even though he was gaining weight and was fine at lunchtime but by evening was lying dead in the corner of the whelping box. Although he was putting on weight it wasn't the same amount as the most of the others but not so low that raised our concerns, It was a shock to find him dead and completely unexpected.

We are now worried about our little girl, pup 10 who is gaining weight daily and showing no signs of distress is also not gaining great weight but is feeding and apart from being smaller seems ok in that she is not crying or lifeless.

Her daily weight has been  in grams - birth 340 then each day, 310, 350, 410, 450, 500, 540, 570, 640, 650, 760, 780, and today 800 grams.

By comparison the others weight ranges from 930g to 1130g with each putting on between 50g to 90g per day to the little girls 20g to 40g daily.

We are due to start their first 3 day course of Panacur tomorrow as they will be 2 weeks old which may help if it is worm related.

Would it be a good idea to start weaning the little girl to help with her weight, or are we just being paranoid, we are worried that since she came out after the two dead pups that she may go the same way as our other lost one?

Any advice would be greatly received.

Thanks

Chris and Sue

Did your bitch have the Eurican Herpes 205 vaccination ? Also did you have a PM due on the puppy that died ?

Hi

No we didn't have a PM on the dead pup, we were unsure what to do about it and assumed it was just born with an unseen defect as all the rest seemed to be doing well.

Our bitch had her usual booster in September when due, not sure if that covers Eurican Herpes 205, I haven't heard of that specifically

No the core vaccines do not cover Canine Herpes. You are a breeder that doesn't know about Canine Herpes ? You are not being serious are you ?

Hi

No I didn't know about Canine Herpes, i have bred my bitch for her 2nd and last time before we spay her, so I am not a breeder in the professional sense.

Whilst still learning hence I came here for advise.

I will have a google and see if that relates to my weight worry.

Hi All

I have had a google and read up on Canine Herpes, and whilst this my be a possibility, the only symptom the little girl is showing is the lower weight gain.

Mum has just been put back in the box after being out briefly for toilet and she is very vigorous in her attempts to get to mum and is in no way lethargic or lacking energy, nor constantly crying or showing any signs of being in pain.

I had lowered the heat lamp settings as they are now 2 weeks old but have raised it again as I read herpes thrives in lower heat so it wont hurt to raise the temp again.

I will contact our vet tomorrow and see what they say.

Strangely I have googled a lot of sites about fading puppy syndrome and none I read mentioned Canine Herpes, you learn something everyday.

Guess if we were all experts, there would be no need for forums like this.

Thanks for the pointers.

Chris

Keep an eye but if there is weight gain i wouldn't be overly worried, make sure she gets 1st dibs on the milk bar before the others.

You bred from a your bitch therefore you are a breeder.

Your vet is unlikely to have an indepth knowledge of breeding dogs, in fact few vets will have had experience of a "normal" litter especially the younger ones, as canine reproduction is a very small part of vets training & work

Canine Herpes doesn't always exhibit the classic fading puppy syndrome symptoms, hence the failsafe of giving the vaccine, as both dogs & bitches can carry CHV & show no symptoms. It is the leading cause of deaths in neonates, it can also cause abortion & stillbirths & sudden death in neonates.

Your litter had 2 stillbirths & a sudden death

Hi

Sue, thanks for the advice, I will continue keep a close eye on her, and the others.

Anne, You are 100% right, and I fully agree with you. Thankfully our vet is very experienced with breeding and is used by a great many local breeders as well as being a local RSPCA contractor, and I should have asked him more questions prior to breeding but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

If I ever breed again, not that we are planing to, I will ensure the bitch has this vaccination beforehand for prevention.

Obviously now the main task is doing the best for this little girl, and the other pups and my main question still stands, should I consider weaning early when her eyes open, although I am reassured by Sue that she is at least still putting some weight on and not losing weight.

FADING PUPPY SYNDROME

Hi All

We had a good night, I weighed the little girl this morning and she put on 50g in 12 hours

Chris

Hi Chris. Just wondering how your little girl got in? I have a 16 day old whom is still gaining and has doubled his birth weight but is still half the size of the other 9 at 606g. He was first to open his eyes he gets 1-1 time with mum. He runs around the whelping box and barks at the others he is just a mini version of them. I have rang the vets whom don’t seem worried at all said whilst he is gaining daily he is ok and said during the Coronavirus emergencies only. I bought him royal canin baby milk he won’t entertain it.

Hi Poppy

The whole litter and especially the little girl are going fine now, at 5.5 weeks and all weaned and eating and drinking.

Litter was weighed today and our girl, yellow collar is now 2.7kg

We did top up her feeds with a syringe with the royal canine puppy milk. She didnt like it but got it syringed into the rear corner of her mouth.

Our puppies range from just over 2.5kg to 3.5kg but all thriving.

At 2 weeks and 2 days it's a bit early to wean so try that for a weeks and day or two and then start the weaning. Once eating the weight gain will increase.

CHRIS

Hi Chris thanks for the reply and the message. Maybe I’m just a bit panicky as our first litter. Did manage to syringe him a few ml last night. He is thriving just as much as the others just like a mini version. I did make a small plate of sloppy puppy porridge yesterday and they all had a slurp and funnily enough last night was the first quiet night from them all with it being such a large litter (11 but 1 died day 1) we take it in turns to sleep downstairs with them to make sure they all get a feed and don’t get laid on. Hopefully he will just keep building up. Thanks again x