Hi I’m new to this forum I have frantically been googling for help for 2 days and came across your forum I hope I can get some help. My 27 month old [bitch] give birth to her first litter late Sunday night (3 days ago) She had 5 pups only 4 boys were born alive. Shelby was fantastic during birth cleanse every pup on delivery only managed to feed pup number 1 after birth as she didn’t have much time between each pup and was extremely tired. She has had problems from beginning in feeding I have had to help pups latch on although they getting slightly better. All pups are gaining weight. She has been to the vets and had the all clear. Last 2 days some of pups cry constantly which is stressing Shelby and me out I feel she doesn’t know what to do. She has stopped cleaning them as much and has picked on one particular pup and keeps removing him from box he sounds like she is hurting him when picking him up. I am scared she is rejecting them. She also has started digging too at times throwing pups around. She is eating, drinking and going to the toilet. She keeps getting out the box but as soon as she hears them she runs straight back to them. I have not left her side since she showed signs of Labour Friday night (5 nights ago) which means I am running on very little sleep as pups are either crying or Shelby is agitated. I am very anxious, upset, scared. I can’t sustain very little sleep for much longer. I am at a point of thinking of taking pups off her but I’m so worried this will add to her stress. My vets are a waste of time. Advice urgently needed I feel like I have lost my gorgeous loving best friend she just not the same dog. can I get her back on track with the pups? What do I need to do?

Tell the vet that you suspect Eclampsia, if this is the case your girl needs calcium urgently.

She was checked at vets on Monday and got all clear could it have produced since then?

She needs to see a vet urgently

If u arnt happy with your vet maybe see a different one ? If others are right about eclampsia it needs sorting asap
It may also be useful for.you to read some of one two three fours posts about calcium supplementation so u have an idea of what peole are talking about  and also search calcium on here

If pups are constantly crying it could be fading puppy virus, are they warm enough.
The mother can sense if something is wrong with them and maybe trying to move pups away or she needs calcium.
You really need to stay with them practically 24/7 for 3 weeks depending on breed.
I would go back to vet for calcium.

Calcium calcium calcium.

Please search on the forum for previous posts on calcium... You need Tums, high strength, and lots of them.  Ice-cream and other dairy isn't going to get enough calcium in there.

Thank you - went to the vet and her and the pups have been given the all clear - she seems to be picking up slightly so hoping it has just taken her some time to adjust being a mam

I am not anti vet in any way, but I would suggest that the breeders on here who have advised you have a lot more experience in breeding than most vets.
As such, I would follow their advice and give calcium to the bitch asap

Did they check her calcium levels? If not, I’d be insisting that they do as eclampsia can be fatal.

Even if they did check calcium levels it's a known fact that these behaviours can still be caused by low calcium.  Because the demand on the bitch to make milk is such that she will mobilise stored calcium in her body and bones, which will then circulate in her bloodstream - giving the impression that calcium levels are ok if tested.  When really the calcium levels in her body are very depleted, leading to these behaviours...

Isn't it odd that low calcium would be happening, with the puppies only 3 days old - not ever having experienced this, I'd have thought at only 3 days old, the puppies wouldn't be making that much demand on her.  This would normally happen when the puppies are making maximum demands on her - into the third week?   The 'constant crying' could suggest fading puppy syndrom, unfortunately.   A content litter will make noises as they suckle, but once fed, will be quiet.

I think it depends on the bitch, my girl needed calcium from the get go with her litters, she put such a lot into the pups, first litter of six and a second litter of eleven.  As soon as she got the calcium supplements it perked her up, and I was topping up the second litter from day one as she only has nine teats.  From the second litter the lightest pup weight wise was 370g, the largest 480g, and she's not a large bitch.

>Isn't it odd that low calcium would be happening, with the puppies only 3 days old

That's when my first bitch developed eclampsia; I'd made the mistake of supplementing with calcium (as advised at the time) during the pregnancy which triggered the calcium crash afterwards.

>Isn't it odd that low calcium would be happening, with the puppies only 3 days old - not ever having experienced this, I'd have thought at only 3 days old, the puppies wouldn't be making that much demand on her.

It seems to happen at two points mainly - either after whelping, in the first week or so, or at the time of peak demand around 3wks, just before weaning.... I guess, for the body, moving from not lactating, to lactating, is going to put a demand on calcium supplies even if the pups are newborn and not drinking much.  Plus many bitches' bodies go into overdrive and make too much milk at first.  (And owners don't help as they often overfeed the bitch when the pups are born, thinking they must surely need loads more food now - which only causes the bitch to make even more milk.)

Maybe the reason why we didn't have this with our bitches is because the only change to their diet during pregnancy was to have them on a top quality diet even before being mated, and cut back on the buik as their increased girth made it difficult for them to be able to eat a lot of food

Just like us with a human pregnancy, I believe it's far better to keep the bitch trim throughout the pregnancy and perhaps increase the amounts once the puppies were born and it was known how many they had to cater for!

>Maybe the reason why we didn't have this with our bitches is because the only change to their diet during pregnancy was to have them on a top quality diet even before being mated

'Best practrice' was different back in the mid-1970s. We've all learned a lot since then. And my bitch had started leaking milk in the few days before whelping.

> <br />'Best practrice' was different back in the mid-1970s. We've all learned a lot since then.

And then again many of the old tried and tested methods are still best .    Perhaps we haven't learned so much over the intervening years

And then again many of the old tried and tested methods are still best .

Such as what? I can only think of old methods that ended up causing problems or wasn't as good as what we do now. Giving calcium during pregnancy, giving extra calcium to growing puppies, weaning pups on weetabix and milk etc.

>Such as what? I can only think of old methods that ended up causing problems or wasn't as good as what we do now.

Likewise; feeding extra protein to 'grow' large breed puppies quicker, is another old 'best practice' that's been proven to be a mistake.

Hey ho - I'm done trying to argue on this place - right now there are far more urgent things to worry about!   Whatever works..... bearing in mind we all have different breeds with different requirements.