I’m new to showing and we’re working towards our first show in summer. When i decided I was going to take the leap into showing I had already taught my girl all basic obedience commands. One obviously being sit.

I have heard you shouldn’t teach a show dog to sit. I have also heard it doesn’t matter just teach your dog to also stand, which makes sense to me.

What is everyone’s opinion on this?

Does it make a difference?

I’m with you, I taught my papillon to sit as soon as he came home and he had no problem learning stand as well.

He understands that when he has his show lead on I reward him heavily for standing and looking at me, especially when I don’t ask for it. I like a “default stand” so he knows that’s what he should do to ask for another bit of chicken and I don’t have to keep reminding him all the time. :)

If I ask him to sit he happily complies but will pop back up into a stand afterwards.

A few people have told me not to teach sit but it’s far too useful as skill to ignore in my opinion!

I work my Retrievers, granted, I don't show much (one doesn't like it, the other is ok with it but prefers working/training), and always teach a sit/stop from a pup.  My stand for the show ring is rubbish, but as far as I'm concerned, if a judge knows the breed then it shouldn't make a huge difference.  I'm starting showing again with my most recent pup, and she rolled over the last time we were in the ring, we'll work on it, but I don't lose sleep over it.

I heard this too. I’m also a relative newcomer and had a couple of dogs before deciding to have a go at showing with number three. All three had been to obedience, two to gold and one to silver. Acquired number four where I focused on ringcraft only. Then a friend saw one of the original two and asked why I wasn’t showing her, to which the answer was she’s only done obedience. Anyway, in a nutshell, I took her to ringcraft and she soon picked it up. She did have a slight tendency to sit instead of stand to begin with, sometimes when least expected but she’s pretty good now and has had a couple of reserve BoB and an actual best of breed. So even an older dog can be taught new tricks!! And she’s so happy doing it, wags her tail throughout!!

Many people will say that but my view is that my dog should stand if I tell it to stand and sit if I tell it to sit.

Mine do it all. If they can learn to sit then they can learn to stand. Dogs naturally stand, sit and lay down by default lol
I've heard it so many times if you show don't teach your dog to sit. What a load of bullocks.
Dogs aren't stupid and can learn many different commands with stand being one of them.
I use a different collar and lead when i teach different disciplines. So standing and ring training is done on a show set and general obedience on a flat webbed one.

TRAIN them to sit? ....... obviously not people with Bassets who will sit rather than stand, and lie down rather than sit    It was quite a culture shock when 'with Whippet' who from my experience with mine, STAND when awake, or lie down when sleeping.

Seriously, because there was no specific Ringcraft class available where we lived in the UK at the time, we went to Obedience Classes and when there, those intent on showing used to stand their dogs, when the others sat.   It makes more sense not to insist on 'sit' if showing is the object.

"my view is that my dog should stand if I tell it to stand and sit if I tell it to sit. "

Ideally of course!

Not just show dogs but it makes life FAR easier to teach EVERY dog (especially if it weighs 40+kg) to 'stand' especially when you go to the vets and dog needs the temparature taken...........................

There are thousands of dual purpose gundogs (especially in the HPR breeds) and they all learn to sit and show. Dogs are clever like that

Both my Boxers and Beardies were taught to sit and stand. I used different collars for obedience and showing.

Well I guess this blows that theory straight out of the water! Thanks all for your input I was worried I’d made a mistake

>He understands that when he has his show lead on I reward him heavily for standing and looking at me,

I will do this when I start using her show lead. I have started putting her show lead on when practising her stack at home giving lots of praise so hopefully it will have the desired results

> there was no specific Ringcraft class available where we lived in the UK at the time, we went to Obedience Classes and when there, those intent on showing used to stand their dogs, when the others sat.

This is the type of class I’m starting do you think they are as good as a class that exclusively ring craft?

We used to have a crossbreed who did well at fun shows, we 'lent' him to a friends daughter for a child handling class at a show.
When he had been looked at she told him to sit - he did - but then immediatly stood again - this was repeated several times until we got close enough to her to explain that when he had his red 'show stuff' on he had worked out himself that he stood instead of sitting.
He loved showing and went from plodding up to the ring entrance to being an absolute poser once he was inside the tape marker

We go to two different ringcraft clubs and while both have been invaluable I do wish they taught other aspects of showing that I’ve had to pick up here and there from other places. There’s so much jargon, for a start! I didn’t know I could show River’s teeth to the judge myself until we’d been in two champ shows and that makes a huge difference to him. I only learned that I’m not supposed to start conversations with the judge just before our first show!

I’m still not sure what River’s supposed to be doing when we finish our movement and stand in front of the judge before they tell us to rejoin the line. Most of them make noises to attract his attention - he invariably jumps up to greet them, is that what they want?

There really should be a book or website called Things That Are Second Nature To A Veteran Handler That They Don’t Even Think To Tell New Handlers.

> We used to have a crossbreed who did well at fun shows, we 'lent' him to a friends daughter for a child handling class at a show. When he had been looked at she told him to sit - he did - but then immediatly stood again - this was repeated several times until we got close enough to her to explain that when he had his red 'show stuff' on he had worked out himself that he stood instead of sitting. He loved showing and went from plodding up to the ring entrance to being an absolute poser once he was inside the tape marker

Love this! I haven’t started using a different lead and collar yet. I’m starting a ring craft class Monday so will use it then hopefully she will associate it with stand

> We go to two different ringcraft clubs and while both have been invaluable I do wish they taught other aspects of showing that I’ve had to pick up here and there from other places. There’s so much jargon, for a start! I didn’t know I could show River’s teeth to the judge myself until we’d been in two champ shows and that makes a huge difference to him. I only learned that I’m not supposed to start conversations with the judge just before our first show! I’m still not sure what River’s supposed to be doing when we finish our movement and stand in front of the judge before they tell us to rejoin the line. Most of them make noises to attract his attention - he invariably jumps up to greet them, is that what they want? There really should be a book or website called Things That Are Second Nature To A Veteran Handler That They Don’t Even Think To Tell New Handlers.

They are things i didn’t know so thank you for sharing! I worry about making mistakes. I only want to enter open shows until I feel I know what I’m doing. I’m struggling with a lot of jargon. I would definitely buy that book! If anyone wants to write it?! Lol

I went to a class yesterday that was obedience/ring craft I’m still no wiser. I stood the dog when every else sat, I stood the dog on the table when every else did all there obedience exercises and I walked in a triangle which I’m sure was a different shape triangle than the ones I see other people do when watching the shows?! I’ve done lots of stand and in the table stacking at home. I wanted to learn exactly what happens in the ring from start to finish, I felt it didn’t fit in an obedience class so I retired from that class and found a ring craft class and start next week.

There is a book called 'Stand', by Trish Hail.  If you buy it, my Labradors are in there somewhere.

> There is a book called 'Stand', by Trish Hail.  If you buy it, my Labradors are in there somewhere.

I’ve just started reading this book! Do you know which page?

> I’m still not sure what River’s supposed to be doing when we finish our movement and stand in front of the judge before they tell us to rejoin the line. Most of them make noises to attract his attention

They want to see how he uses his ears, ideally he should stay still, standing nicely, but pay attention to the judge, not jump all over them

Pages 30 and 142, in the first one it's my first litter which happened to be a rainbow litter, playing with their mum.  The second is Indie, my old girl (now 14 1/2) playing with a puppy to help socialise her, I helped her owner find a good breeder, so she came round to make use of my girls to get Sasha used to other dogs as well.

> I wanted to learn exactly what happens in the ring from start to finish

The steward will call your class, be ready, standing by the opening, dog all groomed, show lead on, treats ready if you're using them, brush ready if needed.

So you enter the ring when the steward calls your class, you may already have your number in which case it's attached to you, or the steward may give you it, if collecting it from the steward I put it in my pocket for the moment and attach it once the judge is going over another dog.

I like to get at the front of the line up, for psychological reasons, I want the judge looking at my dog, he's first, looking good and setting a good example, keep him first I also want to set the pace when or if we all move round together.

When you're just new though and maybe not that confident try and be in the middle of the line, not last, you want time to get your dog ready when the judge has gone over the last dog and is starting to sort them in their mind.

Don't chat to other exhibitors or people outside the ring, pay attention to your dog and the judge and steward. Set your dog up straight away, the judge will probably be at the table, maybe blethering, waiting for the steward to say that's everyone. During this time though they will often look over, you don't want your dog standing with a leg out of place which can make them appear to have a fault they don't actually have.

The judge will either indicate for you all to run round together or the first dog to come up. If you're all moving together leave enough space between you and the dog in front and keep an eye on the judge. If you're getting too close to the dog in front slow down for a few seconds when the judge isn't looking at you and be sure to go your dogs ideal speed when the judge is looking. This is easier than it sounds as most judges stand looking at one long side of the ring, so you can slow down on the short end, give yourself space then move out properly when it's most important. Always have your dog on the judges side, they don't want to see your legs. It's not polite to overtake fellow exhibitors, though I have seen it done, better to just slow down, or turn in a circle.

Once you've all moved round the ring once or twice, whatever the judge wants the first dog will go to either the table or in front of the table to be set up for the judge. You can let your dog relax at this point but still be aware of them. I have a coated breed so I don't want them lying down and maybe getting cut grass in their coat. I also don't want them standing facing the judge unless I'm sure their front legs are straight, I'd rather they relaxed side on to the judge.

Watch what is happening, usually when the dog in front is moving the next dog can go forward and take that time to get ready before the judge looks round at them. If you're not sure about anything ask the steward.

Only speak to the judge if they speak to you and only answer their questions, usually just 'what age'. If it's a pup/junior answer in months, if it's an adult dog answer in years, generally rounding down until you get to veteran then you can round up. So a 2 1/2 year old is just 2, but a 8 1/2 year old could be almost 9.

Don't feed your dog just before the judge checks their teeth, you don't want bits of food sticking to them. Once the judge has looked in their mouth you can bring a treat out to keep the dog looking forward while the judge goes over the rest of them. Try not to get in the way of the judge, but don't be afraid to correct a leg if a judge moves one and it doesn't go back into the right place.

When asked to move make the most of the ring, use all the space there is. Don't be afraid to turn round and start again if your dog isn't going well, is scratching, pacing, jumping around or something else that isn't showing their best movement. If they're being really naughty though sometimes you just have to make the best of it, you can't restart 17 times, in fact I would restart no more than twice, and I'd probably apologise while doing it.

When you come back from moving stop a few feet away from the judge, don't run right up to them,  turn your dog side on, allow them to stand naturally, unless they look really awful then move round in a circle and try again.

The judge will then either thank you and look away to the next dog or ask you to join the end of the line, in either case keep showing your dog until you get to the end of the line, trot round and gt your dog to stand at the end. Once you're sure the judge has looked away your dog can relax again.

You don't relax though, pay attention to the line, specifically who was first. Once the last dog goes up to be gone over you can get yours ready again, maybe he needs a quick brush, then when the last dog is moving get yours standing.

You want to keep your dog standing now while the judge makes their decision, watch the judge but remember they can see you too, sometimes people are so intent watching the judge they're actually glaring at them you want to look quietly confident.

You'll have seen in previous classes how the judge is placing them, either from 1 back or starting at the low end. When the judge points to you move out into the middle of the ring, the steward should indicate where you should stand. If you didn't win always congratulate those in front of you, just a quick well done is fine. Depending on what you've won you may have to stay there for the judge to write a critique on your dog, keep them looking at their best for this. If you haven't been picked and you're sure all places have been filled just pat your dog and leave the ring.

We've all had embarrassing moments in the ring, don't worry about it and don't be afraid to ask the steward for help. I've been showing for decades, have made champions up and still get embarrassed in the ring. Either with a young dog who forgets all it's training or more recently when I was showing in Germany. I don't speak german, I watched the judge placing all classes from 5 to 1, we won open dog and were in for the challenge. The judge pointed to someone else, said something in German, the other handler squealed and trotted over to the reserve spot, or at least that's what it looked like to me. Then she pointed at me, I assumed we had won the ticket and went over to that pile of prizes to a shocked silence... the other lady was winners dog/cac but had knocked over something on the reserve spot on the way past and stopped to pick it up. Oops, where is that hole in the ground!

Anything else?

> Pages 30 and 142, in the first one it's my first litter which happened to be a rainbow litter, playing with their mum.  The second is Indie, my old girl (now 14 1/2) playing with a puppy to help socialise her, I helped her owner find a good breeder, so she came round to make use of my girls to get Sasha used to other dogs as well.

I’ve just found them. They are beautiful! You must be very proud they look very good quality. I do like a chocolate Labrador.

> Anything else?

Wow that’s just what I needed. Thank you very much. I’ll save this for future reference.

Do you have a rough idea of when your class is on before the show, ie. Morning/afternoon or a rough time? Or do you turn up in the morning and wait until its your class?

Some shows have an order of judging, but with absentees etc it's safest to be there at the start of judging. I went to a show beginning of February with about 50 odd entries before me in a stakes class, but half of them were absent and I missed my breed. :-(

Re stand/sit, I generally teach the stand first if I'm showing, but all my dogs do rally obedience and so know how to sit at heel. My youngest one is the only one that messes me about sitting in the show ring, but she did that long before I started doing rally with her so I think it's just her character