Hi everybody. I have a Goldie (spayed), who has ichtyosis. She doesn't appear to have flaky skin, or black skin, but she does get sore around her eyes and muzzle, and sometimes gets scabs on her back. I know there is no cure for it, but wondered if anyone knows of a product, eg shampoo, conditioner, or creams, or even something oral, available OTC in UK, that could help manage it, without having to drag her out to the vets every time she gets a flare up. The medicated shampoo the vets give, does work eventually, but seems to take a long time to completely reduce the sores.  I'd ideally, for her sake, like to have something that would help keep it at bay as much as possible, rather than only treat when it's already flared up. If there is nothing that can help reduce the occurrence of flare up's, then it'll just have to be the vets each time, which she hates, but if there is something that could help sooth her, and prevent, or at least minimalize the flare ups, it was be far better for her. I don't care how much it costs. Just want her to be more comfortable. Thank you

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/ichthyosis-in-dogs
Out of interest I googled this - the information may or may not help, but have you looked into diet.   I'd recommend a fish and potato diet to see if this helps at all.  You won't see much improvement immediately, but if you stick with it, it may be worth a try.

Has your vet discussed whether this could be hormone related - given she's spayed.   Again it may not be relevant but after we had to have one of our males castrated (prostate problems), we started having skin problems with him where there'd be no sign of this before being castrated.

I wondered if u were under a specialist ?  I have found that they often have more tools in their box so to speak .especially  when dealing with the rarer and tricky conditions

Hi, thank you for that info. I will try this. She was genetically tested affected for ichtyosis as a pup, before all the symptoms started (I test all dogs for peace of mind). It could be that there is something else causing the sores around her mouth, but vet thinks it is ict causing it. X

No not under specialist unfortunately. I didn’t know there were any. Just under normal vet, who doesn’t seem to know an awful lot about it, only what she has googled. I also have a cocker with AMS, and they only know what they’ve googled about that too. I’d love to find a specialist in both those illnesses if there is one nearish to me (goldie doesn’t travel well, she gets sick). X

I would ask for a referral probably a dermatologist.  Your vet should be able to do that very easily but they sometimes dont unless u ask
We have serious allergies and  it wasn't until we got referred that we started getting things under control. I was insured at the beginning but no longer and it's still. worth every penny. There will be specialist  available for.both conditions. Distance is variable ive travelled across the country in 2 cases but atm we are really lucky as the dermatologist happens to be 20 mins away. Likely there will be someone near enough

Thank you so much. Yes I’ll ask the vet for referral for both. The cocker is fine with travelling, so that won’t be a problem, but sadly know there’s not a lot of hope with AMS :( The ict though, I am hoping there is something they can do, to at least make her more comfortable. Just a pain that she’s so travel sick, even with medication, so hoping there’s something nearby. We’re London borough at the mo, but hoping to move to east anglia sometime soon, so hopefully there’s something nearby one of those areas. Will try the fish and potato diet in the meanwhile for her. Thank you both for your help. I really appreciate that x

Do you use Facebook? There are a couple of golden retriever pages that may have people on there that may have experience and be able to help. Both are closed groups and well moderated

Golden Retrievers GB
Golden Retrievers UK advice and discussion

Yes I do use Facebook. Thank you for this. Hopefully get some help there too. Will try every avenue, so thank you. Taking her to the vets on Wednesday for her vaccination booster so will ask for referral to specialist then too. Thank you x

hoping to move to east anglia sometime soon, so hopefully there’s something nearby one of those areas

There is a specialist dermatology department at Animal Health Trust just outside Newmarket,  and also similar at Dick White Referrals also near Newmarket. expensive but you get what you pay for.

Thank you, that's great. I'm not worried about the cost. I'll pay whatever it takes to make her feel more comfortable, just as I would with any children. Thank you. Hopefully when we move things will get easier for her, with a specialist nearby. Here's hoping x

Think carefully about boosters as they should only be given to health animals . It  says this on the datas sheets. Mine don't have vaccinations as having allergies would not make them good candidates .

I wouldn't be boostering while this isn't under control. Maybe consider Titre testing instead for the time being and reassess once you've seen a specialist and got it all under control

Oh ok, thank you. I didn't know this, thank you for warning me. Excuse my ignorance, but was is titre testing? I've not heard of this x

Don't worry actually. I've found info on the internet on it. Just reading it now x

There is a thread about titre testing which may also help . Some very useful links on there especially  the last one

Yes it all makes sense. I'd never heard of this before. I suppose because vets mostly push for boosters regardless. Thank you for all your help, all of you xxx

> I'd never heard of this before. I suppose because vets mostly push for boosters regardless.

Again with titres, as I said on the thread about this, when I asked about having this done with mine,  just before their boosters were due, I was told by the vets I was with at the time, that titres aren't necessarily accurate and as they told me they were costly too, I opted to carry on with 3-yearly boosters (other than for the one for Lepto which needs doing annually).   Again as said, it may be more relevant with puppies, to make sure mum's natural immunity has dropped off sufficiently for external vaccination to 'take'.   My two were older than that, at that time.

That ppint with titres is true to a point as we have discussed previously but unfortunately both these dogs have health conditions which means any vaccination is risky . Vet should be aware of.this and advise accordingly

Yes that makes perfect sense. My dog is 2 years old, so not a young pup. She’s had one booster last year, and is due her second, but will hold off now I have this information. Her sores around her mouth and eyes only started a few months back. She was spayed when she was 7 months old, which on reflection, was too young, but the vet I was with at the time pushed for it. The one I’m with now, says to spay after a year old. X

I don’t know whether early spaying has triggered this reaction or not. I have now started feeding an oily fish and potato diet, and will request titre testing and a referral to a specialist and hold off booster for now, until we’ve seen a specialist x

That’s a shame she was spayed so early. Just so you know if you ever have another golden, the best time for a spay is 18 months and older. Goldens have finished growing at round about 18 months and in particular the growth plates will have closed.
It’s not the end of the world that she was spayed early but keep an eye on her weight as she gets older as there is some evidence that an early spay can result in a higher incidence of crusciate ligament damage (been there, done that). Keeping the weight down will help with this

Ok thank you. I wish vets didn’t push for early spays :( People like me trust in what vets say, but from now on, I will do my research before going ahead with anything. I wish I’d known that goldens shouldn’t be spayed before 18 months, before I went ahead with her spay. She’s such a sweetheart and I hate to think that I could have inadvertently caused problems, but that’s too late now. Thank you so much for all your advice. You have all taught me so much, not only for my current dog, but also for future dogs. Xx

Weight wise, according to the charts, she’s perfect. She is a little piggy (typical goldie) but highly energetic, so that keeps the weight down x

If she were mine I would hold off on  titre testing as she has had her puppy vaccinations  and booster last year so unless she is a bon responder which is totally different  and not  thought to be common she will be covered. Titres would only show the antibodies  if she has recently been in co tract with the disease tested for ( core diseaae) otherwise the cell mediated immunity ( memory) cells which cannot be tested for would create antibodies if needed .so u may get a negative titre which will confuse further .
See about referrals then worry about the vaccinations after further research . Chance of either dog becoming I'll is  very unlikely and certainly again if.they were mine is what I would do. Regarding spaying of any breed research has shown that any neutering should be after maturity which is around 18 months to 2 years in any breed.  If u search particularly 1234 posts u will have lots  of links to read for.tje future in both subjects.good luck

Thank you much. Why do vets push for early spays, if it’s better at 18 months. So many people rely on and trust in what their vets say, so vets should be advising to wait until 18 months, unless there is a risk of unwanted pregnancy. I wish I’d got advice from here first, but sadly, what’s done is done. I know in future now. I’ll hold off the booster and titre testing for now then, and await referral. Thank you all so much once again. Your advice has been amazing. Thank you xx

I think its because vets see so many cases of unwanted litters or irresponsible breeding their go to is to neuter asap. I can understand how seeing so many people and some who they don't know well its makes sense to take that line , after all they have to pick up the pieces in many instances.

I think its reasonable that as owners we also do our research on subjects so we can have informed discussions and not as we all may have done in the past taken things at face value.
The vaccination subject is another that I have learned as I went along and now have quite strong views about them . Luckily my vets are pretty open and know me well so discussion is easier

It's pushed during training TBH & used instead if education for responsible dog(& cat)ownership. The trend for vet nurses to hold "puppy parties"& it's also pushed during these.

I can remember a vet nurse not knowing anything about the link between testosterone & oestrogen & the closure of the growth plates & behaviour. She was incredulous that there was any link. Obviously something seriously lacking in the teaching of the full effects of pre pubescent neutering of dogs if Vets & VNs aren't aware.

The fad for prepubescent neutering comes directly from the US where puppies are routinely neutered at 8 weeks of age not just by shelters, but also breeders who deem a puppy not being of breeding quality very early !!

Sadly u are not wrong Ann. I cringe when I hear of animals being neutered at x weeks old especially  by breeders to protect their lines
Having said that I was present in the waiting room when an emergency c section came in .bitch was around 1 year old, big breed and owners had no idea about anything. It was an accidental mating and bitch was in a very bad way. 
.
When the vet sees cases like that not infrequently   I can understand  why they take.the route of recommending early neuter

I wonder how many vets or VNs bother to discuss prevention of negligent litters especially if they know the owners are inexperienced, not many if my experience is anything to go by.

The cons far outweigh the pros, especially if you have seen dogs crippled with joint & back problems caused by prepubescent neutering, not to mention the bitches with lifelong incontinency, yet vets/VNs never mention the cons.

I was throughly chastised by a VN for daring to not castrate one of my rescues before he was 6 months old, she "went off on one"about him producing puppies & causing more unwanted puppies. When she had finished, I asked if she knew anything about me & my dogs-she didn't, I asked how my dog was going to sire puppies when all my bitches were spayed !! Well he could go bitching & find an in season bitch, mate her etc etc. Odd I told her in over 50 years of owning entire dogs never had that happen & I added I was only having him castrated because it was the rescue's rule !! Haven't seen her since & that was over 2 years ago. Mind don't visit the vets much with my animals !!

> I was only having him castrated because it was the rescue's rule

How about the Charity I happen to do Home checks for, who require all existing dogs in a prospective new household to be neutered - when they always neuter those dogs being rehomed!!   I questioned them on this (it would rule out us having one of their dogs because although our Whippet was spayed, our Basset is an entire male, and unlikely to be otherwise) and was told that was their rule, take it or leave it.  Hum.

Weeks old for neutering?! :( That is awful :( Yes our vet is very pushy about spaying and neutering. In fact most round here are :( I honestly wish I'd done my research, but trusted what the vet said, and also hated the fact that I might be thought of as irresponsible if I didn't. However, I would have pushed my pride aside, and not cared less about what they thought, if I had known that it shouldn't be until at least 18 months for the dogs sake. I just wish I could go back in time, and do things better. I really hope that she doesn't suffer because of this. From now on, I will seek advice from here and do my research online, before I commit to anything, that could be risky to my dog's health.

There is a rescue(it's not a charity though when I checked with the Charity Commisoners)that insists ALL animals owned are neutered before you can be considered for one of their animals. So if you have an entire dog you can't have a cat from them ???? I think also they take in worn out ex breeding dogs & unsaleable puppies from puppy farmers & BYB allowing these awful people to carry on their vile trade. No logic there for me.

I follow a lovely American lady on social media who fosters newborn kittens. She’s amazing with them and so happy to share her knowledge and experience and helps so many cats (and other human carers as well).

Unfortunately she also believes that anyone getting any animal from a breeder is unethical, and her kittens are spayed/castrated at 6-8 weeks before they go to their new homes. It makes me so sad. :(

Uh puppy farms :( They make me sick. They just don't care about the welfare of their dogs at all. The more a bitch is well cared for, the healthier the pups, but I know they don't care about the Mums or the pups. All they care about is the money :( If a dog is in such a state that they've had to take it away, then the farms should be prosecuted and shut down, although I know they'll just pop up elsewhere. It's horrific. I understand rescue centres spaying and neutering animals within their care, before they are re-homed, but not to say that they won't house an animal with you if you already have an unneutered animal. Animal rescues are so over run, that surely, as long as you care well for that animal, and agree that the animals you are taking on, is neutered before you take it, then it shouldn't really matter should it? x

I think 6-8 weeks is way too young :( I think as long as the breeder cares well for the animal they are breeding including the animals offspring, and ensures that they are not producing 'affected' offspring, it is not unethical at all. I think if there were no good breeders, the pedigree gene pool of so many different animals would be small, which would then lead to inbreeding :/

Currently  research is saying any age is fine with cats
. I am still wondering when that will change as I cant believe cats which are also mammals are so far different to dogs in this respect . It must make some difference.  However it could change how we view cats as pets if we need to leave them to maturity.  Dogs are easier in that respect .
Many vets especially in the US neuter based on weight due to anesthetics risk and 8 weeks most are heavy enough

No, I was just saying to hubby that 8 weeks in cats must be incredibly risky surgery, let alone 6 weeks, especially spaying. They're tiny at 6 weeks :/ I don't believe cats are that different to dogs in that respect. Dogs, especially larger breeds, may be less risky, but still, that is so young. There must be adverse effects with that surely? If neutering before 18 months can affect them, then at 8 weeks, it must be far worse, surely? x

Research on cats currently  doesn't agree .weird imo
However if its.found thay cats are best left entire the common way we keep.them in the uk  as indoor out door cats would have to change.
Cats can reproduce from around 4 months  females who dont mate  can be come unwell and living with a calling queen would be no fun . Breeders have to balance all these things. Pet owners wont
So even indoors keeping cats entire would be a whole different ball game and I cant imagine how it would be managed .
I still of.the opinion we will find out early neuter isn't the best though

Yes I agree that if cats were left intact, it could cause further problems, even if indoor cats, like you say with calling, spraying, illness etc, but then maybe spay at 4-5 months instead of 6-8 weeks? 6-8 weeks just seems a little extreme, as I've never heard of a female cat falling pregnant before 4 months x

I always used to have cats and mine were all neutered at 6 to 7 months.  I felt it was important for them to mature and get benefit of the hormones before getting them done. I also did not allow them outside till after neutered so no risk of pregnancy/sexually transmitted infection.

Ive done the same with mine all around 6 months and kept in . It did get a bit tricky when I had a Male and female pair of siblings but we managed without  mishap

I was the same. Cats were neutered and spayed at 6-7 months, but they're indoor cats anyway, as they wouldn't last 5 minutes on our road :/ Like a racing track! The oldest one was not spayed until she was 6 years (she was from a breeder, who was retiring her). x

I’ve mostly only had adult cats who came already neutered, except one male who I adopted at 6 months that I got castrated a few weeks later once I was happy he was fit for the op.

From my experience of those couple of weeks with an intact young male though, I’ll agree that it would be extremely difficult to live with unfixed adult cats!

Yes I agree they'd be difficult, if kept intact, past the age of 6-7 months x