I know the guideline for the 2nd herpes vaccination is "one to two weeks before whelping", but do you think it matters if I am 2 days earlier than that?  (So it would be 2 weeks and 2 days before whelping?)

It's just that there is a particular vet who is really nice that I like to see, and she is off on holiday after that, so I can't see her any closer to the whelping date.  I can't see that 2 days will make much difference, especially as whelping dates can be a bit rough anyway??

Anyone have any thoughts? 

Last time my girl whelped earlier than expected so the 2nd jab was given about 5 days before whelping - so we were a bit out with the timing there anyway.

Anyone?

I aim for 10 days beofre welping is due.
Could you not get the vaccine from the vet and give it to her yourself?

I think according to UK law only vets can give injections?

Any 'lay person' can give sub-q injections.

Are you in the UK? 

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/beaumont-sainsbury-animal-hospital/practice-services/pet-vaccinations/dog-vaccinations

"Who can vaccinate my dog?
Only a healthy dog should be vaccinated. Each dog is given a full health check by a Veterinary surgeon prior to vaccination. In the case of a primary course where two injections are needed, a qualified veterinary nurse can administer the second vaccination."

Giving me the vaccination would not enable a 'full health check' to be completed before vaccinating.  The vet last time did check gums and teeth and take the dog's pulse prior to vaccinating. 

Besides which, if you accidentally prick your finger with the herpes injection, it can lead to necrosis and the finger needing to be amputated:  "This veterinary medicinal product contains mineral oil. Even if small amounts have been injected, accidental injection with this product can cause intense swelling, which may, for example, result in ischaemic necrosis and even the loss of a digit. Expert, PROMPT, surgical attention is required and may necessitate early incision and irrigation of the injected area, especially where there is involvement of finger pulp or tendon."  http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-453472

So no, I won't be attempting to give it myself even if I could get it from my vet - which I doubt I could.

I was given some doses of pain relief to inject a previous Shepherd after he had surgery and people give diabetic dogs injections but neither of these are Vaccine injections which seem to be a different protocol.

I give monthly immunotherapy  injections but are herpes injections sub q

I have been left with intramuscular injections for horses on several occasions. Why would there be different rules for dogs? I can understand vaccinations being different as there is a verification certificate to be issued.

I think if it's a vaccination (rather than an injection for insulin or pain meds) the vet is supposed to do a 'health check' before giving it.  It is probably a silly rudimentary health check which is just protocol and rarely finds anything, but they still have to do it or they would be remiss.  I guess you could take the dog to the vet for the health check and then they could prescribe you the vaccine to give, but if you have to do that, then the vet may as well give it. 

Especially when this particular vaccine carries risks of people's fingers falling off if accidentally injected and when I've never injected an animal before.... and the vet's not going to be able to show me how to give an injection, since there is only one to be given.

But my main question wasn't about whether the vet can give me the vaccine (since that's not an option), but whether it matters that it's 2 days earlier than when it's supposed to be.  I don't think any of this is an exact science since the bitch is making colostrum for the puppies in the last 2 weeks of pregnancy, and since bitches can unexpectedly whelp earlier or later than planned (as we see from the loads of people who post here, worried about where their puppies are) so there'd be a lot of people not giving it at the right time if it were that precise...

Geeze, I've been thinking about this some more...

Whilst it is possible that people not timing right might give the vaccine too late, they really wouldn't give it too early.  Because the earliest anyone would calculate a due date to be, would be 63 days from first breeding.  And then give the vax between 1-2 weeks before that date.

Whereas, we would be giving it early.  (2 weeks and 2 days before due date, calculated both by diestrus and by 63 days from first breeding - it comes out as the same date.)

I've emailed the manufacturer and will try to call on Monday too...

I know the original advice when the vaccine first came on the market, was 2 weeks before due date.  (Then it was revised to be 1-2 weeks before.)  Is 2 days earlier really going to make any difference?!  I just get worried about puppy development and risking giving it at some critical time or other.

I order mine from the vet and give it to them myself when I want it given

I wish my vet would let me do that, but they want to follow RCVS guidelines and do a physical exam before it is given.  Even though it's a very cursory exam.

Totally unhelpful reply from the manufacturer:

"Thank you for contacting the Technical Services Team at Boehringer Ingelheim Animal Health.

Unfortunately, in line with UK regulations, we are unable to give advice regarding prescription only medicines to the general public. We would advise that you contact the veterinary surgeon who is legally in charge of the care of your pets who will be able to advise you accordingly.

Kind Regards,"

My vet hadn't even heard of the herpes jab, so she's not going to know.  I think I'm not going to give it early without hearing from them that is ok.  So we will now probably skip the 2nd dose. 

I found this great paper which suggests that each dose lasts for 90 days and there is some effect for neonatal puppies from just one dose - with no vax, 80% died when infected.  With 1 dose, only 25% died.  (With 2 doses, 2% died.).  So if there's anyone like me who doesn't like the idea of the 2nd dose during heavy pregnancy, you can still benefit from the 1st dose before breeding...it doesn't have to be all or nothing:  https://vandekloostertuin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Canine-Herpes-Seminar.pdf

Does this help

"What is Eurican Herpes 205?
Eurican Herpes 205 is a powder and solvent that is made into an emulsion for injection. Eurican
Herpes 205 contains the active substance canine herpes virus (F205 strain) antigens in a dose of 0.3 to
1.75 µg.
What is Eurican Herpes 205 used for?
Eurican Herpes 205 is used to immunise pregnant bitches to prevent mortality, clinical signs and
lesions in puppies caused by canine herpes virus infections acquired in the first few days of life.
Eurican Herpes 205 is given as two 1 ml subcutaneous (under the skin) doses. The first injection is
given either when the bitch is on heat or 7 –10 days after the date of mating. The second injection is
given 1 to 2 weeks before the expected date of whelping. The bitch should be revaccinated in the same
way during each pregnancy."

All that info is on Noah Compendium for the vaccine already, but thanks.

Wouldn’t you let the vet nurse vaccinate instead of the vet you prefer?

I’m not sure I’d go for two full days early - there’s a time given for a reason, if it didn’t matter the recommendation would say ‘two weeks and two days to one week after the first vaccination’.

I also have a favourite vet, but I wouldn't object to a different member of the practice administering something as routine as a herpes vaccine. Far more important that it is given at the correct time. (Just my opinion).

Yes, I agree we should give it at the right time so I've cancelled the appointment which was 2 days early.

I'm still not sure if we will just skip it entirely or go next week.  There are no other vets at the practice - it's a very small practice with only 2 vets, one I really like and one I don't think my dog will like, in terms of the approach... (if you get what I mean).

I like the idea of the vet nurse giving it, but I don't know how to explain the need for that to the vet we don't like ("I'm sorry, you're too XYZ with the dog, is it ok if the vet nurse gives it?" probably isn't going to go down too well!!).  We already own the vaccine because I had to buy both upfront but I don't think I can ask to be given it so I can go to a rival vet practice and see a vet there we like to have it given LOL!

She has been isolated from other dogs for 3 weeks before and will be for 3 weeks after, and there is some benefit to just one dose of it (according to that study I posted above).  So we have a week to decide anyway now.

I would just see the vet that is not your favourite- rather than skipping the dose.
The second dose is to ensure that antibodies are circulating and are so passed on to the pups through colostrum.

Personally, I wouldn’t miss the second. I’d much rather see a vet I don’t like than lose a litter to CHV.

Yes, I agree with qwerty, get the vacc done at the correct time regardless of which vet is doing it. I understand you'd always prefer to see your favourite vet but for something so simple I dont think its worth the risk of getting the timing wrong. It was several years before my vet would give me loaded injections and taught me how to do it ( under the skin ones only). I never saw anyone else if I could help it, he was awesome and taught me so much and never spent my money unless it was needed. I always joked with him that when he retired I would stop breeding and funnily enough, after 25 ish years thats how it turned out!
Get her vacc-ed on the correct day and good luck with the puppies