I have some questions...

Is it still possible for puppies to fly in cabin OUT of the UK (to Canada)?

What is the youngest age airlines will fly pups?

Do pups need their rabies jab and wait till 15 weeks etc if going to Canada from UK?

There is an option pup could travel fly from Paris instead, but would then presumably need Pet Passport and be 15 weeks to enter France - and would then be too big to fly in cabin.  (And this is forgetting about Brexit, if it ever happens, and what's going to happen to the Pet Passport scheme then.)

Um, tell me anything else you might know.  I already know about endorsements and how I'd need to really know and trust the people I'm exporting a pup to, since I'd have to lift the endorsement 'not eligible for export' for them to register the pup in Canada.

https://www.heathrow-airport-guide.co.uk/pet-travel.html

In the body of this it says pets other than assistance dogs can't be in the cabin flying in or out of the UK.

Excess baggage is probably the cheapest option. Ladyhaye were very helpful when i was looking at importing a pup from Canada.
Also Liz Cartiledge does pet travel with her company in Ryslip.
Worth asking them too of options

Thanks. 

Yes, I think flying in the cabin isn't going to be possible.  So am I right that, flying with someone, they can go as checked baggage - and that is better than going cargo, in terms of time in the crate and their experience in all this?

It seems that the pup can be imported to Canada without a rabies jab if younger than 12 weeks, so we have to hit the sweet spot between when the airline says the pup can fly and before the rabies jab is needed.

If a pup is going as checked baggage, do we have to still use one of these travel companies when flying pups around?  Or is that only if they are going cargo?

I think a lot works on the airline. The 2 companies will happily answer your questions even if you don't use their services

When living in Canada, we imported two puppies from the UK, our first was our foundation bitch who came out to us at 5 months.   Flying in the purpose made area of the aircraft, and unaccompanied.  She was fine.   The second was a male we wanted to enhance our breeding programme, and he was 7 months and came the same way.  We used the airline of the destination country (Air Canada) as I had the impression that they cleared the airport faster flying that way.   In his case, again, no probems.   He came out via Ryslip (shipping company).

The youngest I'd fly a puppy at was as I did with one I exported from the UK to Geneva, Switzerland.   He was 4 months and I went with him although he was in the hold.

When we went with our hounds, and subsequent importations into Canada, they went with a health certificate and had their rabies jabs done when in Canada, not before.  This was because I didn't want them to have the extra stress of that vaccination.   Our then vet told us they needed a local distemper shot as, he said (?) it's slightly different in Canada.   Again none of this was done prior to shipping.   As this was many years ago I think you'd do best to check with your vet and DEFRA re shipping to Canada these days.  Also the relevant airline.

Again although it was only sensible not to have a very young puppy as mine is a slow maturing breed and I wanted something 'good', I'd not fly a puppy of much under 4 months, especially on the long London - ? Canada flight.   Ours came into Toronto.

The one hound I flew with me when I went to Canada was checked in with me BUT didn't go into any different place in the aircraft than had he been unaccompanied.   I don't think it makes ANY difference.  The place they go into is pressurised and heated although perhaps not to the same level of heat as in the passenger cabin.

Where in Canada are you exporting to?   Btw, DO NOT sedate the puppy - many airlines won't accept sedated dogs in any case, but it's important he has all his faculties in flight so you don't risk him waking up en route, and panicking.

It would be into Toronto, MamaBas.

I've done some more digging around and it seems that Air Canada DO accept dogs in cabin OUT of the UK (only) - but they have to fit in the carrier under the seat in front and the earliest they can fly is 12 weeks.  I don't think one of our pups would fit, at 12 weeks - so would probably get bumped to checked luggage anyway.  Checked luggage needs a hard carrier (in cabin a soft carrier is recommended), so I don't think we can try a 'wait and see what happens at the airport' thing unless the person flying with the pup is equipped with both(!!).

The other factor is the temperature - flying checked luggage, there are suddenly these restrictions on which aircraft it's possible to book on, due to temperature in Canada (this would be to arrive mid-November). 

And as the airline says the pup must be 12 weeks to fly, the pup would also need rabies here before leaving - because Canada law says if 12 weeks and over, they need rabies...

Sigh, why does it all have to be so complicated?  It is better just to put the new owner in touch with a company that deals with all this and if so, who is the recommended best company for travel out of Heathrow with Air Canada?

> And as the airline says the pup must be 12 weeks to fly, the pup would also need rabies here before leaving - because Canada law says if 12 weeks and over, they need rabies...

I'm surprised at that because the UK is 'rabies-free'.   It wasn't the case with ANY of mine but again, this was a long time ago now and as I said, I and my vet felt to have to give rabies on top of the stress of the flight (and the one I took with me was an adult, the other who had to come later as he wasn't well enough to fly with me was also an adult with the other two 5 months and 7 months).  My puppies, in Canada, were not given rabies until they were 4 months either.   I'd not want to give rabies any earlier.

The flight into Toronto takes about 7 hours and even longer if there's a stop off in Montreal - NO WAY would I consider having a dog in any kind of crate/carrier in the cabin.

I don't understand re the temperature.   My foundation bitch came to us in a November.  And I had to fly home for my mother's funeral (not with a dog of course!) in January.   It was a bit hairy landing back in Toronto - in a snow-storm.   We had to go round (and round) before we were cleared to land.

If you need to use a company to do all this - Ryslip.  They handled the 7 month male we had flown from Heathrow into Toronto.   My foundation bitch was shipped directly to me by her breeder.   Both unaccompanied as was my second hound when well enough to join us out there.

Incidentally we shipped the 7 we came home with ourselves, from Toronto, via British Airways into Heathrow, unaccompanied.  They were met by the Quarantine Kennel people (before Pet Passport).  Of course they had to have rabies, during the first 2 weeks in Kennels.  I'd delayed boosters so they didn't get a double dose of that when arriving in the UK.  They flew on an April evening flight, with snow on the ground and there was no problem re temperature.

For info. re pre-rabies ..... https://www.petairuk.com/taking-pets-to-canada    NOTE re the situation re rabies!!!

2 years ago I flew a Cavalier puppy in the cabin with me, out of the UK to the US via Canada, changed flights in Toronto. We went Air Canada and it all went smoothly, there was a ton of paperwork required but frankly nobody really looked at it once we were travelling!

> 2 years ago I flew a Cavalier puppy in the cabin with me, out of the UK to the US via Canada, changed flights in Toronto. We went Air Canada and it all went smoothly, there was a ton of paperwork required but frankly nobody really looked at it once we were travelling!

Interesting!  But again I'd not want a dog, let alone a puppy, in a carrier in the cabin with me.  How did you keep a puppy quiet - and clean!! (thinking of other passengers around) for that length of flight?   And with the ongoing flight, were you able to get the puppy out to attend to biz before the ongoing internal flight left?

When I first flew into Canada from the UK, with our first hound, there was a fire-fighters' strike going on at Toronto which means we were put down in Ottawa.   I had kittens.  When de-planed and in the arrivals lounge I told them I needed to be reunited with my hound asap and the on duty vet took me to one side, located the box containing my boy and we were cleared Customs fast (no paperwork checked, other than my landing status/passport to my knowledge) and out to where my husband was waiting after being told he had to get to Ottawa from Toronto where he was, landing a week ahead.   We had to leave the box at Ottawa as there was no room for it in the hire car and arrange for it to be shipped on to Toronto, when a flight was available.

I once exported a Cavalier puppy to Norway, (not as far as Canada, I know). She travelled as hand luggage with close friends of the prospective owner, who reported that, once in the air, she spent most of the journey being played with by the stewardesses.  I never thought to ask how they coped with any tiddles, but I'm sure they must have coped with worse from human passengers!

I dealt with Meg Purnell Carpenter's team at Overhill with all of my exports, and also is where our Imported pup was Quarantined.

Cannot speak highly enough of them.

I had the importers deal with them directly and only needed to do the procedural stuff for preparing p-up for export (blood tests, vaccinations etc().

They are great at ensuring pups fly out at times so that on stop overs it is not too hot etc.

As for personal pick up, regardless if pups would fit into a cabin holdall I would always opt for the checked baggage option where pup is in a varikennel of correct size and in the climate controlled dark hold.  Pup will not then be exposed to the higher temparature in passenger section, and in the quiet and dark will sleep.  also no embarrassing whiffs or noise to disturb fellow passengers.

I have flown two dogs (USA and Finland) as checked baggage, and one on return as Cargo, the other I opted to fly back to Brussels and come back to UK by car and ferry..

As checked baggage the dog is only confined in crate for maybe half hour to hour longer than your flight, where for Cargo they have to be at Cargo for 4 - 6 hours before, and same on disembarking, so an 8 hour flight could be more than twice that confined to a crate.

Thanks Barbara.  So, for checked baggage, at what point in the usual check-in process is the dog put in the varikennel and taken off you?  Does this happen when you would usually check your bags in?  Or do you walk with the dog to the gate and deliver it there like people do with pushchairs? 

And at what point do you get the dog back?  Is it brought to the luggage hall and you go get it from a desk there? 

Thanks, I will look into the Overhill team...

I have heard very good reports about Whitehouse Kennels in Somerset and their Import and Export Service.

I have not used them myself but recently a friend emigrated to New Zealand and she used them to transport her dog.  She said that all aspects of their service was excellent.

They are open to export enquiries even if you do not use them.

(I have used their boarding kennels and found them to be very good & very knowledgeable).

Don't know how they would compare to Overhill but I thought I would just mention them in case they are of interest to you.

You go into check in and they will tell you when to come back for security to take the dog.

You then go to departure gate, board plane, and always tell the cabin crew before you sit down to check the dog is on board and pilot aware.

When you get to other side the dog is brought to the baggage claim area by where your bags come out.

Great, thanks

>Interesting!  But again I'd not want a dog, let alone a puppy, in a carrier in the cabin with me.  How did you keep a puppy quiet - and clean!! (thinking of other passengers around) for that length of flight?   And with the ongoing flight, were you able to get the puppy out to attend to biz before the ongoing internal flight left?

She was sick at the beginning, my own silly fault as I'd given her a small breakfast before we drove to the airport, anticipating that she wouldn't eat much en route. But luckily I had thought to bring spare bedding. When my friends who she was going to brought her uncle over 9 years before, the stewards had been very excited and had told them to let her run around in the loo on the plane with paper down etc. My flight I found nobody was remotely interested, no positive or negative attention. There were signs in the loos in Toronto that dogs must stay in carriers, but I did put some paper down but she didn't go. She either weed on the vetbed or because she hadn't eaten or drunk much even when offered, she didn't need to go. She whimpered a little on take off when the carrier was under the seat, but for the rest of the flight I had the carrier on my lap (it's a pretty small one) so I could put my hand inside to stroke her, and she actually slept pretty much the whole time!

> You then go to departure gate, board plane, and always tell the cabin crew before you sit down to check the dog is on board and pilot aware.

Hah - that made me smile.   When I flew, with one of our then two hounds, to join my husband in Toronto (except as said, we flew into Ottawa as it happened), not having seen any sign of him after he vanished, in his box, into the bowels of Heathrow, I asked the cabin crew about him and was he onboard?   She just looked blankly at me, clearly thinking I was 'odd'.   So I spent the entire 7 hours hoping he was with me and not back in the UK still!! 

I've often wondered what happened when our, by then, 7 hounds flew off from Canada back to the UK..... and whether any howling down below might be heard in the cabin!!  And how they coped with them in the Animal Immigration Centre at Heathrow before the Quarantine people collected them, this being before Pet Passport.  Perhaps it's as well I didn't know!   I do remember back in Canada still, waiting into the night before I could phone the Kennels to make sure they had arrived!!

That is why I much prefer checked baggage than Cargo.