Hi all

So me and my husband have picked the flat coat but we are now faced with a problem. First of all he has hypacusis to those that dont know and longterm or constant barking is a big no for his ears but the odd bark when someone is at the door is ok. Now he then goes and tells me if he did not have hypacusis he woukd love a rough collie however after spending time around them i told him as much as i love them too i prefer the flat coat so we are getting a flattie the problem is that some flattie owners we have spoke with said they can be barky. I know furriefriends told us there not but I think its more of an individual dog thing than a breed thing.

So what i want to ask is if we get the help of a good dog behaviorist from day one to help prevent any barking issues is it possible to prevent or avoid major barking issues regarless of the breed?

Im not talking barking for small amounts of time like someone at the door im talking about constant barking at everything.

Anyone????

I have had Flatcoats in the past and love the breed ...

None of them barked excessively and most hardly at all!

They would bark (sometimes) if someone came to the door or if they got very excited playing.

I actually had to teach one of my boys to bark on command as there were occasions when I found it quite useful for him to alert me to certain things - strangers at the door, for example.  Otherwise he didn't bark at all.

Other Flatcoats I know are similar - they bark at the doorbell, otherwise not much.  One friend has a Flattie who sings - with her encouragement.

This is just my experience of course, so don't know how typical it is but I have never regarded them as a particularly "barky" breed.  When they do it is a nice deep bark!

Sadly, I do not have Flatcoats now.  I had too many heartbreaks with their health.  Again, just my experience.

Good luck

Thanks, its nice to hear your experience of the breed but i really am looking for advice on if its possible to teach or prevent barking issues at an early age with a good behaviorist regardless of breed?

The short answer is yes it's possible. Jean sw and brainless will comfirm that that both who have breeds that can be considered vocal but have that under control with good teaching .


Some will be easier than others and I really think it also depends on how good u are as an owner at teaching it .especially  if u have a vocal breed . Timing imo being a priority
my pom x chi , both breeds  of which  can be vocal , could be a nightmare if I wasnt careful.
I fully take responsibility for that having not realised from the get go what I needed to do . Otherwise she was perfect :)
my previous breeds fcr and gsd had never  been a problem. So I was slow to realise we had an issue .
None of the fcr I have met in all sorts of situations I would consdider vocal  and wouldn't say the breed is on the vocal list either but u know my views  :)
  therefore controlling any  barking should be easier if its necessary and u start at the beginning. 
I  don't have any knowledge of rough collies and how noisey they are . Not a common breed ,infact arnt they on the rare breeds list now, ?

I didnt know rough collies are on the rae list.

I put my foot down though as i prefer the flattie. Furriefriends as we both love German shepherds and you own flatties , did you find your GSD easy to train and do you think they would have been easy to train not to bark like the flattie should be easy?

Gsd are different to train but both very trainable.
Flattie are clowns and want to play when learning , not taking things seriously where I've found gsd more like wanting to please u now and listen better. Could of course be me !!
Cant see why either should be difficult but at least with a quieter breed u are starting from a good.point if it is necessary
With  my  two it would  more about getting  them to bark to start the training . Hopefully yours will be the same .

I found my GSD to be the same with training were kiara would rather play or go cuddle daddy.

My husband did say we could go back to a GSD in the future as hyperacusis can be treated for some but it takes a loooooong time to treat. I am a member of a few GSD facebook groups and i asked there about how vocal sheps are and the awnser i got on three groups was that there not barky dogs everyone was saying there's only barks at the door ect but that the vocal reputation they have comes from the talking that sheps do and that none of that should bother my husbands ears as its not as loud as a dog barking. And if sheps whine which can get loud theres a reason so you can with training stop them whining as well. But the Chewbacca noises are not loud.

I have not found the breed loud either and i know you didn't.

Never had a problem with mine being over barky, yes they will let you know if someone is around (we live very rural so not used to people being around the house) but they don't yap on and on.
They quieten down when told to do so.

I think one problem u are up against and it's a reasonable one is what your husbands hearing is going to accept and what it isn't.  Not easy when u are looking at a dogs life which hopefully is mamy years.
Yep I recognise chewbacca noises and  the wookie. Definitely chatty when playing which upsets many people who interpret as nasty. 
Cant say I have seen that with flattie even when playing with my gsd or only very slight

So do you think that i should not consider a shep even in the future furriefriends? Because of the Chewbacca noises ect?

Kiara doesnt make chewy nouses either ( shes a lab) not sure if its just her or if labs and flatties dont make those noises.

I think that's one for.your husband and how his hearing goes. 
I dont have experience  of that condition and would.think it's very individual . 
Take one step at a time or in this case one breed :)
I am sure there are other breeds but u have done a lot of research to arrive at a fcr.
If u dont need to rush try and spend more time with them maybe and then may a final choice.
U will  need to speak to  breeders re pups anyway and that may take some while to find the right  breeder for you .

Did you find those chewy noises loud?

And Flatties dont make these noises?

I know the otherthing i wanted to ask , cant remember if i had asked you this but. I read in a few book that flatties are not as bothered to say hello to strangers as labs for example , i asked a few owners i spoke to about this and they all agreed , one who also had a lab said that the flattie is also the one who doesn't stray to far off lead and always checks were she is were lab is gone way ahead within minutes.

The oringinal question i posted was because of the flattie as a few owners have said theres are barkers so that why im asking. Its nice to hear from others with the flattie who have not had issues.

Ref not straying far off lead and not being bothered to say hello to strangers - I think that with both Labs and Flatties this is partly down to the individual dog (as always) but mostly down to careful training from the very start.

I have had both Labs and Flatties who, given the opportunity would decide to go self employed and rush off exploring and meeting and greeting everybody, given half a chance.  Depending on the type, the hunting instinct can also often kick in.

My Flatcoats were truly the friendliest creatures I have ever met, so teaching them a solid recall, to stay close and not to mug others was really important.  The mistake I made with my first was not to start this early enough - my fault but soon remedied by thorough training!

Again, just my experience.

> Ref not straying far off lead and not being bothered to say hello to strangers - I think that with both Labs and Flatties this is partly down to the individual dog (as always) but mostly down to careful training from the very start.<br /><br />I have had both Labs and Flatties who, given the opportunity would decide to go self employed and rush off exploring and meeting and greeting everybody, given half a chance.  Depending on the type, the hunting instinct can also often kick in.<br /><br />My Flatcoats were truly the friendliest creatures I have ever met, so teaching them a solid recall, to stay close and not to mug others was really important.  The mistake I made with my first was not to start this early enough - my fault but soon remedied by thorough training!<br /><br />Again, just my experience.

Could you tell me the main differences between a lab and flat coat.

In my experience: very similar in many ways in that, generally, both breeds are biddable, eager to work with their humans and affectionate.  (My Labs are working bred, not show type).

However, I have found the Flatties took longer to mature, can be excitable if not trained carefully, and often remain lovable clowns indefinitely - hence the description of them being "Peter Pan" dogs.

For these reasons I found the Flatties slightly harder work to train to a good standard but we got there in the end.  I found that the Flatties were a little less consistent than the Labs when it came to how well they would "work" at various training activities.  If they were in the mood they were stunning but sometimes they would just laugh and say "Nah!"

The Labs have been a little more consistent, on the whole.

Both sensitive, lovely breeds in spite of their reputations for exuberance.

Both breeds have the potential to be nightmares if not trained - but that's probably true of many breeds.  I think many people have Labs thinking they are "easy".  In my opinion they are not, unless really good training is put in place.  Same for Flatcoats.

Kiara is duel purpose but theres more working lines in her. I have to admit i was not a fan of labs even to the point i hated the breed but she won me over now i never want to be without at least one lab. I adore her and the breed which i never thought was possible. But it just shows that you can fall for a breed you didnt think you would ince your heart has been stolen by one.

Kiara dosent make the Chewbacca noises that GSD do, did any of your labs or flatties ever make these noises?

And were your labs just as quiet as flatties in terms of barking?

> Both breeds have the potential to be nightmares if not trained - but that's probably true of many breeds.  I think many people have Labs thinking they are "easy".  In my opinion they are not, unless really good training is put in place.  Same for Flatcoats.

True, i dont think any breed is easy though. But it doesn't help when people tell you labs and goldens are "easy" as i think many people get the wrong dog because of this.

I have not experienced the Chewbacca noises in either breed!

One of my Labs is very quiet.  The other barks a little more in the house when he "hears things".  He is a slightly more anxious dog than the other one, but generally he is very quiet.  Both are as quiet as mice in the car and very quiet at training events, even if surrounded by other dogs barking/screaming.  Good boys!

I have grown to love the working type Labs.  One of mine is 1/8th show bred.  Each to their own, but the full show types are not for me ...

Yes, I agree - I don't think any breed should really be described as "easy".  It can imply, especially to first time dog owners, that they don't have to do very much to ensure that their dog is well behaved - not good!

Good post by blay .I think she ? Has explained it much better than I did

Hi FF.  Yes, I am a she !!!

Thank you, but I think you have explained very well too.

  Still love Flatcoats.   XXX

Were definitely getting the flattie , we both really like them and i think labs and flatties would be good together.

I prefer working lines or nice duel purpose lines Blay, i also am not fond of the showlines they seem a lot more shorter legged and way to fat looking.

Furriefriends , do you find you flatties less reactive than GSD's , i found kiara is a lot more chilled about things then diesel was he would be alert all the time and i think thats why sheps are more vocal were labs are not as reactive to things like someone walking past the house , neighbours coming home ect. Shes just not bothered were he would let me know even if its just next door coming home.

Definitely less likely to be reactive than gsd . Although a lot of apparent reactivity in gsd is actually misunderstanding by others not an agressive dog
One thing I hated about having a gsd was having  to avoid people.or their dogs or explain to the.world that he or she were not nasty. . There is very sadly an expectation  amongst many that gsd are aggressive.
Flat coats are a totally different  dog .few are reactive ,yes can lack impulse control or can react to situations ,hence the need for gentle.consotent training but rarely nastily . Impulse control ca  be worked on and  I would start as u mean to go on that can    Reactive in an aggressive way not usually
Flatties tend to be dual purpose and have not gone down  the split other breeds have

Thats why i think GSD are vocal it because they are quicker and more likley to react to things flatties and labs are not as bothered about.

Its the protective nature that makes them reactive but defiently not aggressive like you say.

I just think behaviour wise flatties and labs are more chilled and easygoing about things that sheps.

Once they mature maybe . Dont forget fcr do take a while to become mentally  mature .they can be exuberant into old age if the mood takes them and stick their noses into all sorts. They are also always underfoot wanting to know what's going on .so if u prefer a more I dependant  breed rather than velcro it's not a fcr

Maybe its just my experience of labs , kiara always seemed more easygoing than diesel.

> I just think behaviour wise flatties and labs are more chilled and easygoing about things that sheps.

That's been my experience too, although not so much chilled but happy!  My friends lost their 11yo recently and he was a giddybum right to the end.  You'd have been forgiven for thinking he was 4 or 5.  Stellar temperament though, and I don't recall ever hearing him bark in the 2.5 years I knew him, even though he lived in a house with two VERY barky bassets.  The few I've met have been quiet, too, even the first one was as I recall and he was quite an intense dog (wasn't trained as a pup so very full on).

> That's been my experience too, although not so much chilled but happy!  My friends lost their 11yo recently and he was a giddybum right to the end.  You'd have been forgiven for thinking he was 4 or 5.  Stellar temperament though, and I don't recall ever hearing him bark in the 2.5 years I knew him, even though he lived in a house with two VERY barky bassets.  The few I've met have been quiet, too, even the first one was as I recall and he was quite an intense dog (wasn't trained as a pup so very full on).

Mabye chilled was the wrong word but defiently easygoing , i find kiara was always more confident in a lot of situations or was more adaptable or happy , like when we woukd go to our local farmers market everymonth diesel was always alert watching everyone and watching other dogs he never relaxed fully when there or places similar but kiara was relaxed the whole time and just wanted to say hello to everyone and eat all the food.

I would say German shepherds are highly strung and always alert were labs are the happy goofballs and easygoing is a word i would always use to describe them

I grew up with Labs and walk and have walked lots of Labs and none make the noise of a GSD. I can't say ive ever heard that noise really come from any gundog tbh

>Could you tell me the main differences between a lab and flat coat.

Apart from size (flatcoats tend to be much bigger than labs) one of the most noticeable differences is lifespan. Labs often live into their teens, but flatcoats are very prone to cancer and 10 years is extremely good.