I have 3 gorgeous dogs who are my life, this site helped me after going through an awful experience recently.  Lilly my bitch of 5 years old has 3 successful litters in the past using the same stud dog.  2 weeks ago Lilly gave birth to one still born pup.  I tried to revive but was unsuccessful, we was both devastated as was the 4 people hoping to have one of the pups.  Any idea why this could have happened?  My vet feels there is no reason not to mate her again but feels as the stud is 8 to use a younger one.
Any thoughts please, has this happened to you and if so did you breed again?
Thank you so much in advance.

> Lilly my bitch of 5 years old has 3 successful litters in the past using the same stud dog.  2 weeks ago Lilly gave birth to one still born pup.

So the most recent litter(even though it was one pup) was her 4th?

> My vet feels there is no reason not to mate her again but feels as the stud is 8 to use a younger one.

no reason why if the stud has had all the breed recommended health tests, is fertile & fit why he cant be used again. Although you have used him 3 or 4 times before so you could use another male to add more  to the gene pool, as you have known what he has done already by using him 3 times on the same bitch.

Personally your bitch has done her bit in her 5 years so I wouldn't breed from her again & technically you cant as she has had her 4 litters quota.

Do you know why the kennel club has a limit of 4 litters?

Personally, I think 2 pregnancies is enough from a good bitch. I cetainly wouldn't dream of putting any of my girls through 5 pregnancies.

I would suggest you use the CHV (canine herpes) vaccine - which is now back in stock.  Herpes can cause absorption of pups early in pregnancy and death just before and in the weeks after birth. 

Fertility does decline as dogs age, but it shouldn't be by that much.  But I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on this one experience.

The most wearing thing for the bitch is actually lactation and raising the litter in the first few weeks and her body hasn't done that.  Plus it has only 'grown' one pup in there, so not even taken as much out of her as a normal pregnancy would. 

You won't have registered this litter with the KC right?  Because there were no surviving pups.  So nothing to stop you trying again.  She has not had 4 litters, in the KC's eyes - she has had 3. 

I agree with your vet that it would be good to use a young and fertile male (ie with pups on the ground recently) and for genetic diversity this would be best as well.

>Do you know why the kennel club has a limit of 4 litters?

Up until a few years ago the limit was 6, as I believe it still is for commercial (licenced) breeders. The KC rules need to apply to all breeds - the tiny toys who might onl have 2 pups in a litter, to the larger breeds where 10+ is the norm. So 4 was a good compromise.

If you've had 3 previous litters all to the same stud, then surely there's no need for yet another litter? Repeating a mating tends to be something rarely done as there is no need -didn't she have something good enough for you to keep in the previous litters? Personally I would not try again with a bitch that's already had 3 litters, after losing a litter. If it was her first or second litter, then that would have been different. I've only once had 4 litters from a bitch and that was a toybreed with small litters who never had a single problem. And she was on breeding terms so that was the reason.

> . The KC rules need to apply to all breeds - the tiny toys who might onl have 2 pups in a litter, to the larger breeds where 10+ is the norm

100% agree.  I have tiny toys, average 1-3 in a litter.  My girls had 2 litters max, with the exception of my top bitch, who had 3, due to the quality of the pups.  I kept them all, as I wasn't breeding for other people.  I see no reason to keep having litters just to sell.

Many thanks for your replies.  I will take on board everything everyone has said and appreciate you taking the time to comment.

> Personally, I think 2 pregnancies is enough from a good bitch. I cetainly wouldn't dream of putting any of my girls through 5 pregnancies.

I contribute to this.  Only once did I take 3 litters, the first, my first and her's, resulted in 2 puppies only, one DOA.  So I went ahead and took a repeat mating from the same dog, a year later, and later a third litter from a new male I'd imported.   If we had a Section, we only took the one litter.

I have to ask why take that number of repeated breedings - if you didn't get what you wanted from the first, or second mating to that dog, why keep repeating it?   Assuming you bred for your next generation only.   I sold two puppies to a fellow-breeder who when they were 2, exported them to a breeder overseas who then took FIVE litters, all to different males, from the bitch.   I was shocked to hear this, and heartbroken - and I heard she was rubbishing her, saying she only threw what she was, regardless of the male used.   Would we all had such a bitch say I.   To take 5 litters, even if small numerically (it's still 5 pregnancies) from a bitch smacks of puppy farming to me.   I'd never sell to a fellow-breeder again because of what happened.   No endorsement because I trusted the woman.