A 16 week pup has been returned ,
the owner saying he had health issues ,
so I’ve taken it to two independant vets who have said there is NOTHING wrong with it .
The owner immediately asked for a full refund
They have had him 8 weeks ,
What refund if any should I give ?
I have the pup with me and it is perfect
He is a King Charles cavalier and a normal puppy
Also I’ve asked to see there vet medical records , that has not happened and also the insurance certificate and that has not appeared either
What would you do
My health check records state he is healthy

I can't contribute to the poll because quite honestly, I'd make a refund (perhaps to protect my reputation!) but MINUS a minimal Boarding Fee for the days before a new home is found for the puppy, ASSUMING he is healthy!!  And I'd want to see their vet records stating clearly what, in their vet's opinion, is wrong with this puppy.   Buying a puppy isn't a 'try before you buy' situation. 

However, I'd be sure to get the puppy back, rather than it end up just anywhere - I had a return to me, the breeder, clause in my Sale Contract.  What is the matter with people these days!!   Fact is selling my puppies was the worst part of breeding the occasional litter we had, for our next generation.

I don't breed but  totally agree with mamanas as.they clearly don't want the puppy so would take him back regardless of money and fi d a lovely forever home

What does your contract say about returning and refunds? I would 100% take the puppy back, but after such a long time I would need to see the vet records stating that the pup was unhealthy and not fit for purpose before refunding anything more than a nominal sum, with the rest to follow after resale, minus expenses.

What did they say was wrong with the puppy?

Regardless, I wouldn't want the puppy with those people for one single minute longer so I would take my puppy back immediately and give a full refund.

> wouldn't want the puppy with those people for one single minute longer

Looks like puppy already back with the breeder, so they have the upper hand so to speak & best step has been taken so far.

oops missed that.  That is great news.  Pup is perfect according to breeder and so presumably has been looked after.  In that case I would make refund minus costs (vet consultation/checks etc,), re-advertising fees but only on the basis that all vet notes and vaccinations docs are given.  Before handing over the refund, I would also ask the previous owners to be honest about the reasons for returning knowing that this won't effect the refund, even if that reason is that they have changed their minds, just for peace of mind.

That he had neurological problems and his legs kept giving way
He doesn’t
He is healthy but did have a sore hip
Possibly from over walking or he has hurt himself
He is fine and with me and his mum playing away jumping , walking and two independent vets did neurological tests he passed both

I am the breeder and have him back it was in my contract that if he needed re homing he comes back to me

Good for you Debbie.   I  would keep hold of him for a week or two just to make sure that he doesn't have any issues that the specialists didn't pick up.

Thank you I have had him a week now
I’ve asked their vet twice for his medical records still not arrived
I am not a professional breeder it was a one time only for my Girl and she has been spade already .
My contact stated he should come back if needed to be re homed I didn’t mention refunds as I believed he found his forever home
But the fact they have returned him saying he is not well when he clearly is tells me there are other issues here
I wouldn’t know what to charge for boarding etc
They are now demanding a contract to refund them and y not asked about him it seams all about the money
He is 17 weeks on Monday
I feel so disappointed with them

As much as it feels like eating glass, I would calculate the costs of having to resell and offer them a partial refund but not before you have those records.  Put it down to experience and at least you have your boy back to find him his forever home poor lad.

I had a young pup returned to me as she was much harder work than they realised and another that was supposedly vicious!

In both cases I took the pup back, no mention of refunds were asked for.  Obviously I kept them to see what I thought of them, 1 had psychological issues which I related to the ridiculous advice given to them by a 'behaviourist'.

Needless to say, both found the most wonderful homes and live life to the full.  Never heard another word from their original owners...

As someone else has said, keep him a while longer and see how he is, and keep insisting on the vet records.  Until then, no refund

>I’ve asked their vet twice for his medical records still not arrived

It's your vet who needs to ask for them, and the old owners need to give their consent for them to be forwarded. If they refuse there's nothing legally that can be done to force them, because of client confidentiality and data protection laws.

Telling them that any refund depends on the vet records being passed over might encourage them!

What/how did the vets test? Considering the breed, have both parents been MRI scanned for syringomyelia/chiari malformation? I don't know of any other way to check than with MRI so is it possible that the pup has shown intermittent signs that your vets did not see at the time? Or, maybe they were scared by their vet telling them what problems the breed can have - that wouldn't be uncommon. If both parents meet the breed club recommendations of SM testing, heart clearance (for grandparents as well)eye testing and DNA (doesn't Cavaliers suffer from episodic falling as well that you DNA test for) etc then personally I don't see a need to refund. But if the parents have  not been MRI scanned, then I'd refund and see it as a lesson learned. This is a breed extremely expensive to breed responsibly.

Reading up about it briefly, it seems to me that you could well have a case of episodic falling. Appears in pups from 2 months of age and in between episodes the dogs are neurologically normal. So unless both parents were DNA tested clear, or one clear and one carrier, one affected and one clear, then you can't rule it out just because you have not seen it in the past week or before sale.
https://cavalierhealth.org/episodic_falling.htm

Wghen I ahve kept pusp that have homes to go to past 10 weeks (due to hol;idays or for export red tape) I ahve charged £25 per week on top opf the normal sale price.

So in your case I would refund whatever he resells for minus £25 a week and any expenses you have incurred.

I would not do this until I ahd his veterinary nortes as of course any existing issues might prejudice his future Insuarance and therefore his resale value woudl be lower.

Yes I have looked into the falling
He is clear of this too

Three times now I’ve asked there vet for the records
It’s an absolute joke

> It's your vet who needs to ask for them, and the old owners need to give their consent for them to be forwarded. If they refuse there's nothing legally that can be done to force them, because of client confidentiality and data protection laws.

Exactly.   It's rarely that somebody else's vet would even talk to you.   This should be done between your vet, and their vet.   And regardless of client confidentiality, it should be explained that before you can make a refund, this health information is NEEDED.