Hi guys

I mated my bitch on Thursday, she was standing at the time for one of my dogs so i took her to a stud
She wasn't properly standing for the stud, although she is nervous of new surroundings at first

Anyway the stud was experienced seemed to think she was ready and they had a tie of about 20 mins (she cried for the first min or so) the stud owner said that was normal?

Anyway she's still flagging and very keen to get to my dog, the stud I used was 2 hours away so I said one mating should be ok and since they had a good tie o thought maybe that should do it

I'm now considering taking my girl back to the stud tomorrow due to her still being red hot so to speak

I don't want her to miss the pregnancy due to the fact my vets have said to have a litter from her this time otherwise she will have another phantom pregnancy and it will be worse this time....last time she had a phantom she spent 2 weeks upstairs and had to be carried outside to go to the toilet

Could I have been too early on her first mating even though she held a tie ?
All the correct signs were there when they mated but I'm just worried as shes still standing that maybe she wont have caught?

Claire

Bitches will usually stand from ovulation (some will stand from the lh surge about 2 days earlier) to about 4 days after ovulation at which point any eggs will have died off.  In my experience a maiden bitch will often not stand until she has ovulated, whereas a proven bitch will often take any opportunity and stand gleefully for a week or more.

So the ova cannot be fertilised until at least two days after ovulation and peak fertility would be three days after.

A stud dogs semen should be good for around four days, and even a week if really good.

So one tie may have been enough but I always think it best to mate at least twice 48 hours apart if dogs are not on same premises, and ideally try her up to the point she is no longer standing, you then know she ahs gone over, and counting backwards should be able to make a calculated guess when ovulation occurred if you have nt been blood testing.

You should always get 2 good matings, at least 48hrs apart - sometimes 3 days apart. 

To do anything less is just way too risky.  You might get lucky but what's a 2 hour car journey compared to a missed mating and waiting another X months to try again??

Or even one slip mating, can give a fair sized litter....

Personally as, as said here, the sperm lives for some days, I'd be content with one mating.   I know breeders prefer to have two, but in all honesty I'd be content with what you got.   It was a good tie after all.

I would question what your vet said about the false pregnancy.  Yes once they start all this, it will continue until such time as you get her spayed.   Having a litter won't make any difference going forward except this time, hopefully, she'll actually have puppies.   If she was mine, I'd leave things as they currently probably are, and if by chance there are no puppies (which may happen in any case if her hormones are all over the place - hate to say it), then get her spayed.  Just my opinion.

Barbara, if you allow the bitch to mate for as long as she will stand, does that make it more difficult to predict date of whelping as you have multiple mating dates as a starting point?

>I would question what your vet said about the false pregnancy.  Yes once they start all this, it will continue until such time as you get her spayed

This isn't quite clear; I'm sure you mean that she'll have a phantom pregnancy for a few weeks after every season (as is normal for bitches -some show more extreme symptoms than others) until she's spayed, not that the phantom will only be stopped by spaying her; you never spay a bitch that's showing any signs of phantom pregnancy.

> This isn't quite clear; I'm sure you mean that she'll have a phantom pregnancy for a few weeks after every season (as is normal for bitches -some show more extreme symptoms than others) until she's spayed, not that the phantom will only be stopped by spaying her; you never spay a bitch that's showing any signs of phantom pregnancy.

Yes - apologies.   I'm battling with my Basset who has ??? and been with the vet on an I/V drip since Sunday evening until I picked him up mid-Tuesday morning.  With a bill for over £800 - and none the wiser about what's going on.  He has started eating again but stools .......... not for those with a weak stomach.

I'm surprised that a vet would consider breeding from a bitch to stop"phantom"ptegnancies.

It is a natural condition, a throw back to predomestication & when the ancestors of our modern day domesticated dogs still lived in packs, the non breeding bitches acted as'wet nurses'whilst the breeding bitch was hunting, the milk produced by non breeding bitches supplemented the breeding bitch's milk & also kept the puppies from drawing attention to themselves when left, in the event of the breeding bitch dying a ready replacement wss available too

The only sure way to stop "phantom pregnancies" is for the bitch to be spayed & would gave thought this would have been the first advice from a vet

I have to admit to being surprised at the idea that once a bitch has had a phantom pregnancy she'll keep on having them.

My bitch Summer had a phantom after her first season at about 7 months and then never had even a hint of another one (she had a pyo spay at about 7 years).

She got a bit mopey and clingy and started lactating, and her teats became big enough that people often asked if I'd bred her. But after that first season? Nothing unusual at all until she got pyo.

It is typically the case that a bitch who has a phantom continues to get them, often each time worse than before - until spayed.  Having a litter doesn't stop them.  (Except for on that cycle of course.)

But of course bitches don't read the books...!

> if you allow the bitch to mate for as long as she will stand, does that make it more difficult to predict date of whelping as you have multiple mating dates as a starting point?

No as if you mate until a bitch goes over you can count back to when she is likely to have ovulated and bitches whelp fairly reliably 63 +/- 1day from ovulation (not mating). 

The eggs are ovulated over around 48 hours and have a lifetime of around another 48 hours,  so a bitch will no longer be fertile more than 4 - 5 days after ovulation

In fact I'd say that your more likely to be guessing with one mating as to when she will whelp.  As she could have stood from the LH surge (two days before ovulation) right up to 4 - 5 days after, and you won't have known at which point she was..

> But of course bitches don't read the books...!

I always knew my Summer was a bit special.