Hello I purchased a puppy whose is now 9 months. He has a retained testicle. I have no idea what to do. I believe the breeder should take some responsibility.  My puppy is akc registered. He was purchased for breeding and possibly show. Now I'm being told he is 9 months so it's like a 1% chance the other testicle will drop. Idk what to do.

Did the puppy have both testicles descended when you bougth him ? If not why did you buy him ? What does your contract of sale state ?

If he didn't have both testicles descended when you bought him, I very much doubt you have any grounds for any refund in law in the USA(or anywhere else)

When did ou first notice that he onl had one testicle? Didn't the vet point out that he only had one descended testicle when you took him for his first check and vaccines after buying him? That would have been the best time to return the pup if showing and breeding were the purpose for buying him. Testicles should both be down by 8 weeks, but occasionally they can be a bit later. However if the retained one isn't down by 6 months, and can't be felt anywhere near the scrotum, it's highly unlikely to make an appearance. The retained one will need to be removed for health purposes but the descended one can stay so that the dog develops normal male proportions. Obviously he should never be bred from (the condition definitely has a hereditary component) and I believe this is a disqualifying condition under AKC regulations.

Again, as you intended to show the dog (breeding and possible show - wrong way round imo), you should have told the breeder and checked when you bought him.   It has been known that a puppy, going into the ring at 6 months, has been able to 'retract' his gear (embarrassing for the exhibitor when the judge checks, as they do, and finds none     But fact is that by the age your youngster is now, it's unlikely for them both to come down (unless this one was there and now isn't - re pulling them back).   Because retained testicles can (will?) become cancerous, the missing one has to be found and removed.   Something to talk to your vet about re when because unless it's urgent (and one we sold, with the full knowledge of the new owner btw, suffered a strangulated testicle and was in big trouble), it can/should be left so the puppy matures as much as possible before being castrated (both don't need to be removed but it might be as well to get the one present removed at the same time - up to you).

As for a refund, I'd suggest unless you were conned into buying the puppy for show/breeding, this is another case of buyer beware.   And unless the breeder said she'd pay for the surgery at the time of sale?

ps   In the UK neutered dogs can be shown but are unlikely to do well if against equal quality entire dogs.

First off, you don't need to neuter your dog or do anything surgically or medically until he is around 18 months old.  As per repro vet Gary England's 'Dog Breeding, Whelping and Puppy Care' - there is no risk to him from remaining intact longer and having the benefit of those hormones.  There is no risk of cancer developing before he turns 18 months.

As for what to do, if you purchased the pup specifically for show or breeding, presumably you made this clear to the breeder when you purchased the pup?  If so, the breeder should not have sold you a pup with retained testicles at 8 weeks old.  Moreover, you should also have had these pointed out to you when you went to your first vet check with the pup and so it should have been resolved then - I guess by you returning the pup for a full refund a few days after purchase.

I agree, the breeder has some responsibility here - but you also have a great deal.

So the situation is just buyer ignorance? Yes I purchased the pup for breeding with breeding rights and akc registration. I paid 1600 for the puppy. The vet said this is a genetic issue and the breeder should not have sold the puppy at full price.

Well, it's not totally buyer ignorance - because if you'd made it clear to the breeder that you wanted a pup for breeding and showing purposes, they haven't sold you a pup with good potential for that - and they should - at the very least - have explained this to you and checked that you were still ok taking on the pup with only one descended testicle.

As a breeder, I would not want to sell a puppy to a show or breeding home with only one testicle descended - and if that situation came about, I would discuss it with the buyer before they took the puppy and ensure they had agreed to it and I had them signing a contract to say that they were aware of this defect and were still wanting the pup. 

HOWEVER, as a buyer looking for a show or breeding pup, checking there are 2 descended testicles should be something you did even before collecting the pup from the breeder.  And then, your vet... Checking there are 2 descended testicles should be something every vet knows to do, at the first appointment.  It would be very remiss of a vet not to check this and at least give the owner a heads-up about it - even if the puppy were just to be a pet puppy.

As you haven't mentioned anything about what your vet said or what point you found out about this, I have to assume that your vet did tell you there was only one descended testicle at your first appointment with them - and that you decided to keep the puppy in the hope that the other testicle would descend?  In which case, that decision of yours is on your vet records.  At that point, you had full knowledge of the situation and went ahead keeping the puppy....

>The vet said this is a genetic issue

Well, it is partly a genetic issue - but so is just about everything, from temperament to ear-length to the time a bitch first comes into season.  It's all genetics. 

There are no genetic tests which can be carried out on breeding dogs to prevent cryptorchidism (one testicle descending) and if you breed long enough, you will have a pup or more affected by it at some point.  It's just statistics.  It's not an indication of a bad breeder or the breeder being remiss in something. 

Sometimes there are some breedings that produce more than average numbers of these dogs, but again there's no way to predict this in advance of breeding and whilst a breeder can decide not to breed those dogs again, the pups are already on the ground.

Your vet is wrong to suggest that the pup should be sold at a reduced price.  The pup would simply be sold to a pet home (for full price) probably with breeding restrictions or endorsements on the registration.

So the existence of this pup has no negative reflection on the breeder at all.  What does have negative reflection is that she didn't draw your attention to it.  But, as I said above, presumably your own vet did - and you decided to keep the pup... You can't then have a delayed melt down about it when the pup is 9 months old and it STILL hasn't descended - as you made the decision to keep the pup...

Yes you are correct. I knew about the retained testicle. The vet advised to wait and it should drop the puppy was healthy otherwise. Its an american akita.  I've struggled with the dog since I brought him home . He bit my daughter and had been super aggressive.  Breeder would not return him . She prefers to give me half of the money back a week after purchasing the puppy. I decided to keep him and keep working with him and hopeful he was healthy and would have no issues.  Now hes 9 months ... hes huge and I'm behind told he should not be used for breeding . The vet said breeder should not have sold him promising breeding and show.

I made the decision to keep the puppy, yes. The breeder would only give me back half of the purchased price.

>He bit my daughter and had been super aggressive

If he is aggressive, then he should not be used for breeding - full stop and however many testicles he has or doesn't have and whatever their location is

The whole testicle issue is a bit irrelevant if there is another overriding reason why he can't be bred from or shown.  Akitas are known to be a difficult breed when it comes to relationships with people and other dogs, and this is a risk you'd have known about through research before buying a pup.

The breeder made you an offer of a 50% refund and to take the puppy back - why should she do more than that?  Given that the reason you wanted to return the pup was something you could have checked out yourself when you bought him in the first place, 50% reduction sounds reasonable to me. 

Personally, I would have given 100% refund and taken the pup off you, because I don't want any pup I own to be in a home where they are not really wanted - but a 50% reduction is pretty reasonable.

You can't have your cake and eat it.  Take responsibility for your own decisions and actions.

Yes the first week I asked to return the puppy and get a puppy later when my kids were a little older. The dog was aggressive from start. 1600 to 800 is not a reasonable amount when returning a puppy a week later after I drove hours to pick up the puppy. But I digress. My husband best friend is a lawyer. I'll leave it there and see what happens.

> The dog was aggressive from start.

I'm a behaviourist and trainer and can assuredly say that 'aggressive' 8 week old puppies are almost never ever ever seen.  And, when a young puppy DOES show signs of aggression, it is almost always caused by things that are being done to them - such as moving them when they don't want to be moved, repeatedly taking items off them and thereby encouraging resource guarding and so on. 

It doesn't matter how far you drove, that was your decision to drive that far to get a puppy.  It's irrelevant.  There's not one set of rules for people who drove 8 hours and another for people who live next door...

I taped videos of the puppy behavior and sent to the breeder and she agreed he should not be acting the way he was towards the kids.

That's what you get a puppy for. To move him .. to pick him up and play with him. He was not friendly from the start.

If it's ok for a puppy to growl and bite on kids if they pet or pick him up that's a huge problem.  But it's my problem . Thanks for all the input from everyone. Seems like I'm getting response from breeder who dont agree in taking responsibility. If you buy something from walmart and it doenst do what it promised you return for full price. Have good day everyone

That's what you get a puppy for. To move him .. to pick him up and play with him.

Nope. I disagree. This is a living creature not a soft toy. How a puppy is treated can have a massive impact on its behaviour. I’m not a breeder ‘shirking responsibility’ but if he’s nine months old then you’ve had more of an impact on behaviour than anything else. If you have a puppy and children together then they all need training to respect each other. As for the Walmart comment, that’s just ridiculous. I speak as someone who took on a ten week old puppy who’d been with a family for two weeks and in that time they’d totally messed his head up and we’ve had to work hard to overcome his hang ups.

Sounds somewhat to me its 50 -50 here, you allowed your children to pick the puppy up, move him etc.. pups do bite and growl at kids, adults, toys ! it's all in play and can be sorted easily with good consistent training, the wrong handling can make it much worse. The testicle is a minor issue now. Obviously you accepted at 8-9 weeks you would keep him because you were not happy with the 50 % offered for him and chose to see if he turned into the dog you hoped for that the kids could play with and you could do a little showing and use him at stud. (I would have offered you the full 100% had I not explained the testicle issue or you had not told me you wanted him for stud work, or nothing if you had just changed your mind or decided to "wait till the kids were older " then once he was found a new home I would have offered you the sale price less expenses )  But it's too late now. If the breeder exlained he had a retained testilce you should have said thanks but no as I want a stud dog. If you had told the breeders you wanted a play thing for the kids I am sure they would have said No thanks ! You do make it sound like you feel puppies are for kids to play with, pick up move etc.. and you did not address this issue properly rather just felt that was what pups should allow. So the first issue of the testicle, if all parties were in full knowledge of the facts  1, you should have refused him or 2, the breeder should have told you. If she did not then as soon as the vet did at 8 weeks you should have turned round and taken him back, at that point you would certainly have a case for claiming the full purchase price back. As for the aggression 1, You should not have allowed your children to pull him around and 2, you should have told the breeders your children were not used to puppies. Puppies are not a faulty item bought in Walmart and outside issues can inflict on the way they turn out. He is not broken he just is not the friendly stud dog you wanted. You knew at 8 weeks he was missing some parts but you have chosen to keep him for months and to add your influences to him and then put the whole blame on the breeder. You may need a friendly lawyer as it sound like it could be a lengthy court case, and the judge may not be such a good friend.

So let me get this right. I purchase a puppy for breeding and show quality and it's my fault because he can do neither
Who said my kids were pulling and picking up the dog. Who said I let my kids neglect the dog. I'm sure someone pays 1600 for a puppy and they are just going to let there kids neglect and abuse a puppy. And the Walmart comment was a joke. Lighten up. The breeder never disclose to me he had one testicle up on purchase. It's in my contract he was purchased for breeding and show. Everyone here is making this a money issue which it has not. I've done my due diligence toward the dog even after he turned out to be nothing like the breeder promised. I've had to get rid of other pets to accommodate this dog.

When I posted this seeking advice and help I never put anything about money or seeking a refund. Just lookifn for guidance and if anyone else has had this happen to them . That is all.

When I posted this seeking advice and help I never put anything about money or seeking a refund. Just lookifn for guidance and if anyone else has had this happen to them . That is all.

Why did u have to get rid not a nice term of others to accommodate him ? Seems a strange thing to do. Pets are for life surely
I am feeling very sorry for the dog in all this
If he is that aggressive and you have children letting the breeder have him back regardless of lost money would have been the better choice . Jmo

I had 2 cats that I adored. One ragdoll and one siamese. They were miserable here with the puppy. I thought it would get better and he would adjust. But he did not and he just kept getting bigger and more aggressive. He got to big to play with the cats. So I made the decision to find them a good home. I'm allowed to visit which is great.

I agree .trust me I wish we had returned him . It wasnt my decision. My husband paid for the dog and did want to return him to the breeder for half the purchase price. I just wanted to know if anyone had a similar situation. I know he will have to be neutered and some sort of surgery to go in and find the testicle.

> I'm sure someone pays 1600 for a puppy and they are just going to let there kids neglect and abuse a puppy.

Because no one has ever neglected or abused an expensive dog, right? *shakes head*

I’m not saying you’ve done that, but there’s no logic to your statement at all. Are you suggesting that there are people who would happily mistreat a dog they got for £100 but baulk at abusing one simply because it cost £2000?

I know quite a few people who have adopted neglected/abused pedigree dogs from shelters, and those dogs can’t have been cheap as puppies. Shelters here have as many expensive “trendy” breeds as they do mutts.

Has he and does he go to training classes?
Puppies aren't aggressive at 8 weeks old, yes they growl and bite because thats their way to express they aren't happy with something. We need to show them the right way to do things.
At what point did you realise he had a retained testicle? Why have you waited all this time to approach the breeder?
You could have returned him from what i can see and you chose not to.

I think you are on a sticky wicket re suing the breeder here. You didn't give the pup back when you had the chance. As with aby living being you can't make guarentees, you can say potential and a breeder can say yes by all means show and if passed health tests breeding but thats a long way off, things can and do go wrong like retained testicles, bad mouths etc.

My gsd had a retain testicle in the abdomen . The op wasn't to difficult according to the vet and I choose to have him castrated at the same time
Knowing more now I would have .left him until around 18 to 24  months, he was more like 12 months and I  may not have  gone ahead with the castration either  however he recovered quickly with no issues .
It sounds like u may need help.from a good reward based behaviourist so both u and the family can be safe and relaxed
.he isn't a small.beed and getting the right help asap will save a lot of potential heartbreak later.

if he is then happy around others maybe your ideas of showing can come to fruition with another puppy especially now u are more informed

Thank you for the advice. I was advised to wait awhile also.

Yes he started training classes at 9 weeks. He knows basic commands. He does then when he wants. Hes gotten alot better with being food aggressive. I approached the breeder way before now. Once again just looking for someone that has had the same situation happen to them for advice on how they handled it. Not looking for woulda should a coulda.

That seems odd .sooner u can get things changed the better.each time he repeats an undesirable behaviour he is practicing that behaviour  and it takes.longer to change things .I would get another opinion

As far as the breeder is concerned I'm disappointed in how she handled the situation.. That's all. Lesson learned.

I was advised to wait to have the procedure done.

Definitely regarding the retained testicle no need to rush
I was referring to his behaviour which needs addressing in the right way now rather than later

Yes we are on top of the training. Hes a great guard dog if that's what I wanted.

>That's what you get a puppy for. To move him .. to pick him up and play with him. He was not friendly from the start.

He was probably scared, as most puppies are, in a totally strange environment, with strange people doing things to him that he's unsure of. I always tell new owners not to keeppicking up their puppy - it's very scary having a giant swooping down on you and scooping you way up into their, leaving your tummy behind like us on a rollercoaster! (Children in particular need to sit on the floor to play with a puppy, so there's no chance of him wriggling and being accidentall dropped.)
And of course puppies need plenty of rest - at 8 weeks old they should still be sleeping during the day for as long as they're awake; over-tired, over-stimulated puppies are much bitier than ones kept in a calm environment.

Re the retained testicle i would wait until he is older and get him neutered at the same time. Yes they can drop but chances are very slim now at his age.
Re the breeder and taking them ti court they've done nothing wrong at all.  You can't predict what will or won't happen in a living being when they have left the breeder at around 8 weeks old. These things can't be foreseen and there is never any guarentee in terms of health in any puppy as to what they will grow up to be.

Thanks for your advice.

So you thing this poor dog is like an inanimate thing you can buy from a supermarket ??? Really ?

This poor puppy has been treated like a stuffed toy, picked up whever you feel like, passed around your children & adults & has to do exactly what you want. Now you want to reject it dispite it's only physical problem is a retained testicle that you were well aware if when you bought him.

If you do go to court I really hope you get a "Judge Judy"type judge who throws out your case. You have NO grounds for demand8ng money fir a fault you knew is there & has been from the day you bought him.

As for the growling & nipping, sorry that is quite normal in puppies & you have to teach him in a non physical way from the first day you have him. Obviously you didn't & are now paying the price of lack of training.

I've have many puppies over the last 60 odd years, come more nippy & growly than others. Non were aggressive they were puppies & with the help of my other adult dogs( didn't breed any of my dogs by the way)they learnt what us acceptable & what is unrewarding behaviour.

You bought this puppy to breed from & possibly show, er no the wrong way round. Before being used for breeding if you aren't going to work or do canine activities with him, you show him first & if he's successful & ajudged to be of correct type & quality, a bitch owner may wish to use him at stud, then subject to all available health testing results being good, he MIGHT become a stud dog

Are you dumb?
No one is asking for a refund.

I'm not rejecting the dog. I only want advice on if I should neuter him now or later.

Later :)

I had 2 cats that I adored. One ragdoll and one siamese. They were miserable here with the puppy. I thought it would get better and he would adjust. But he did not and he just kept getting bigger and more aggressive. He got to big to play with the cats. So I made the decision to find them a good home. I'm allowed to visit which is great.

This just gets worse. YOU should have trained the puppy to leave the cats alone. You should have provided safe space for them to escape to like a tall cat tree and/or little houses that were too small for the pup to reach inside, plus of course use dog gates. You were lucky you didn't end up with a puppy with a damaged eye. So you "adored" your cats but you still rehomed them, who were there first, so you could keep a puppy you don't even seem to have liked from day one? Because you didn't want to lose money or because you were hoping to make money from your "stud dog"?

My husband best friend is a lawyer. I'll leave it there and see what happens.



But you are getting in touch with a friendly lawyer

Now hes 9 months ... hes huge!!
What did you expect? You bought an Akita, they are huge and they are guard dogs and known for aloofness. I comment because we rehomed 5 Great Danes 2 of which were rehomed because they were TOO BIG.

Can you explain what you are hoping to achieve by getting a lawyer involved? If its not money which you keep saying im not sure what you hope to achieve? Do you want them to take the dog back?

> The dog was aggressive from start.

If you do a search here for Puppy aggression, aggressive puppy, you will find that invariably it is a matter of perception. It is one of the most frequently raised issue here and at training classes I have helped at.

People seem to forget that young animals play is practise for adult life, and the form of that play is linked to the species.  Dogs and Cats are PREDATORS, and their play consists of ambush, attack, and biting practise.

Also asserting their place in the hierarchy of their siblings, and children are often viewed that way.

They naturally do this with pack mates and siblings, learning bite inhibition from the reaction (breaking off the games)  of their peers and elders.

The Bite Stops Here is essential reading for all puppy owners.

http://petskeepersguide.com/forums/Thread-The-Bite-Stops-Here-Teaching-Bite-Inhibition-Dr-Ian-Dunbar

Children are also very exciting as they have high voices and quick movements, which will encourage the to us, inappropriate play, and will over stimulate the pup.

I’m on the Puppy101 board on reddit, and a huge number of the posts there are along the lines of “my 8-week-old puppy is incredibly aggressive” when what they actually mean is “my puppy is behaving totally normally but I don’t understand that puppy play is basically constant biting, nipping and growling”.

I’m of the opinion that the majority of so-called aggressive dogs are either puppies who haven’t learned how to play with humans or dogs appropriately yet, older dogs who never learned, dogs who are “messed with” (teased with food, handled without care taken to get them comfortable with being touched, disturbed when sleeping/eating, etc), dogs who have their uncomfortable body language ignored or even worse get punished for growling, or dogs that are simply unconfident and scared.

'Aggressive from the start'.   Hum.  If any puppy is actually 'aggressive' from the get go, then it would be trouble.   I had a puppy, male of my main breed, who at one time when I picked him up from the nest, snarled at me.   I was rather surprised but laughed and said boy you are a feisty little being.   Not that I wasn't a touch alarmed, but there was absolutely no need as that boy, who I sold to a friend but who came back to us as an adult (with his Championship title) after her marriage broke down and she couldn't keep him, turned out to be the softest kindest representative of his breed you could ever want for.