> can anyone please give me the name of the disinfectant that kills guirdia, Im sure I read about it somewhere but cant remember where...

We used Jeyes Fluid.   It doesn't do much for grass!!  My hound was initially given Panacur for this, but it did nothing.  Metronidozole (?sp!) did. 

When we have dogs on Abs, we use natural yogurt.

Don't use Jeyes if you have cats.

> Don't use Jeyes if you have cats.

Or if you value your lawn!!!   But it should work.   I didn't know about Jeyes and cats btw.

Review, from Amazon..... "It has helped keep cats, foxes and squirrels away from the garden"   !!

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Jeyes-Fluid-Cleaner/c8864/    Scroll down to description.

Thanks folks for your replies much appreciated, my boy is lactose intolerant like me, gave him some yoghurt once and got diarreah, my two now passed dogs loved it so such a shame anyway does anyone know of a lactose free probiotic yoghurt, any suggestions most welcome.

kefir

Rachel's Organic Lactose Free Natural Bio-Live Yogurt ?

If you can source GOATS YOGURT, that should be tolerated, if and when needed.

Hi goldenhound.  Reading your post has made me feel better (sorry!). my 7 month old spaniel is having terrible problems.  Her stools have never been wonderful since we got her and I do wonder if she came to us with a parasite. About 2 months ago she caught gastroenteritis and ended up being admitted to the animal hospital and was really quite poorly for a few days, and then about 5 days later (after coming home and looking like she was well on the road to recovery) managed to pick up cryptospirosis so was on panacur and metrobactin.  She finished her course of ABs and seemed ok with one clear set of stool results but then the second stool results a week later tested positive for giardia.  She's now back on a more intensive course of panacur and metrobactin again.  Her stools are back to being rubbish again, she's having anal gland problems as a result (lots of licking resulting in having them cleared several times by the vet to try and make her more comfortable) and she now seems to be scratching a lot too especially her ears and nibbling at her behind leg (and shedding, although not sure if that's just because of seasonal shed or losing her puppy fur).  Today she's off her food and looking quite lethargic (she's still on the metrobactin as we have another 7 days of the treatment left). 

It feels like its just one thing after the other and my once boisterous puppy is now just sad and sleeping all the time. The vet gave her Hills ID stress for a while, which did help initially and then (because of the scratching) I tried her on arden grange sensitive (with salmon and potato), thinking she might have an allergy.  She hated it so now we are temporarily back on the hills ID again and ive no clue what to feed her on now.  She's also having prokolin+ every now and then, and some protextin ro-fibre in with her food to try firm her stools up, not that its currently making any difference.

I genuinely have no idea what to feed her and no idea how to help her improve her health. im hoping that once she's finished the ABs she will feel a bit better but I also don't know what to do in terms of cleaning etc to help get rid of the giardia.  We weren't given any advice so from reading online im cleaning her paws and bum every time she goes to toilet, hoovering furniture and floors every day and washing with zoflora (sorry cant remember whats its called) those areas that I can wash but she toilets in the garden so I cant really do anything about that. 

Any advice form those that have beaten this would be so gratefully received, esp in terms of what to feed and how to clean properly.

Raw.

I can only say it so many times.

Research shows that dogs fed raw have a healthier and more diverse microbiome (gut bacteria), which is important for the immune system:  https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-017-0981-z 

Research also shows that dogs fed raw have lower levels of homocysteine in the blood (an inflammatory marker, associated with cancer and other diseases caused by inflammation).  And research suggests there is a huge reduction in the risk of bladder cancer if green leafy vegetables are added to a dog’s food:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16013542

So sorry you are going through a bad time, its awful, and know how you are feeling, we are  currently free from guirdia we have been up and down clear results then back again and so forth..
You can see from the replies I have had there is a wealth of experience on the forum.

We are still having softer poos very formed first thing, but as the day progress they soften up, so my vet is sure its now food related, but hey ho who knows ive been down this road now so many times nothing surprises me...

My vet also put us on Hills but didn't make any different and im not a lover TBH. We are on the probiotics yes defo go down that route,.

Panacur didn't touch the Guirdia is was no good, we had been on a months supply of Metrobactin, and then got the clear result after being off for 10 days...but im still sending in samples every few weeks to make sure we really are free I wont be surprised if it pops its ugly head up again...

My vet did say he has a list of antybs that will kill it but as he is in the growing stages he will stick to the Metrobactin until he is a bit older and stopped growing as some of the Abs can affect the bone growth...

Anal glans yep that too. got to firm up those poos, my vet went through exact same thing with his dog so can fully understand how this scenario plays out...although he seems confident as he gets older he will out grow it.??????
Who knows.... hope your puppy is better soon....

Thanks for the messages and support.

R.e. raw diet-i was about to put her on a raw diet as I've heard a lot of people highlight the good it can do but the dog has been seen by 3 different vets and I mentioned raw diet to each of them on separate occasions&all 3 separately warned me strongly against switching to.raw at the current time.  They said that due to her gastro issues it could cause more harm than good as her guts might struggle to cope with introducing new bacteria right now when it's trying to recover from her illnesses.  I'm nervous about going against the advice of 3 different vets. Its so hard because everyone tells you something different.

We messed around with a spaniel with a dodgy tummy from when I got him at 10 months old for andother 18 months, trying lots of different 'gain free' 'sensitive' 'hypoallergenic' (!) foods, each for at least 8 weeks. Eventually tried him on raw and his tummy was better within three days. I then felt massively guilty for not trying it before.

emandmillie I'm one of those people who think that there are certain subjects I would never listen to most vets on. 

Unfortunately, if you dig a bit deeper and look beyond, you'll see there are powerful forces at work.  For example, many vets *sell* dry dog food.  Their practice profits from selling it.  So of course this is what they promote. 

Vets' studies at many vet schools are funded by the companies that sell dry dog food.  They will get freebies from Royal Canin clip boards to free food for their own animals.  For more information on that, read 'Pet Food Politics' by Marion Nestle.  You can get it from Amazon.  It will be an eye-opener for anyone.

Finally, there are many vets who recommend feeding raw.  Please look up Dr Becker on YouTube and on Facebook (if you're on FB).  She has a whole giardia document on fixing giardia and the gut microbiome in dogs.  She is a huge advocate of a raw diet for all dogs.  She is a qualified vet.  Here is a video from her on giardia:  https://youtu.be/vfzfWoICzFM   It doesn't cover feeding raw, but you'll see that she advocates feeding all dogs raw.

In the UK we have Nick Thompson, another vet who advocates feeding raw:  https://holisticvet.co.uk If you live anywhere near him, I'd highly recommend getting a referral to him so he can discuss everything you can put in place together to improve your dog's recovery.  A raw diet will be part of that!

And so on.  There are, in fact, many vets who advocate feeding raw. 

Unfortunately there is still some kind of knee-jerk reaction along the lines of BACTERIA = BAD.  And an obsession with everything being sterile.  This isn't healthy.  A healthy gut is like a jungle, with diverse species of microbes co-existing in harmony.  The vast majority of bacteria are GOOD and beneficial to the body - as that study I posted a link to above found, with raw diets seeing an IMPROVED microbiome.  These are the bacteria you WANT in your dog's gut.  Things go wrong when the microbiome gets out of balance - when one plant in the jungle takes over and strangles all the others - or when everything is nuked.  There is no better way to nuke the microbiome, than to give antibiotics, especially repeatedly.  Sometimes they are necessary but if you use them, you need to know how to help the gut to heal afterwards.

Apart from being in the pay of certain dog food makers (?!) I think the main reason why vets don't like raw feeding is because all too often, they see the result of people not feeding a properly balanced raw diet.   And it's because I never felt confident enough to do this either, nor was it financially viable given the numbers we had, that we have never gone down that road.   Each to their own, but I have always gone with 'it's all in the bag',especially with a growing puppy.

Again re Giardia, it took a long time to get my hound right after he came to us at 4 months with this.   After getting several clear fecals, he'd still be fine first thing, but far from, later in the day.   It was only when seen (again!) by a vet from the sister practice that he was put onto Hills I/D and then onto a home-made fish and potato diet.    From that, and there was an almost immediate improvement, I switched him to Arden Grange's Sensitive complete food.

> people not feeding a properly balanced raw diet. 

This is why, especially if you are starting out, it's good to feed a complete raw which has everything the dog needs in it - and not attempt to make your own without doing some research.  (And after doing the research, you might conclude it's best to continue using a complete raw - I do.)

Feeding raw doesn't have to mean putting together the dog's meal.

We wouldn't feed kids just brown pellets every day.  If anyone suggested that was the healthiest way to feed a child, we'd all laugh and know obviously it's wrong.  Processed brown pellets which look nothing like the food they originally were, can never be as healthy as bioavailable whole 'real' food.  Yet we seem to think it's healthy to feed dogs this way...

> We wouldn't feed kids just brown pellets every day.

Of course not because our kids are not our dogs.   Dogs usually do better on the same food rather than to chop and change all the time - and in any case, isn't a 'complete raw' the same as a 'complete cooked' - only raw?  Since my home-bred hounds have lived good lengthy life (longer than the norm for the breed) with minimal vet visits (there have been the odd exception of course) I've been fairly certain that they have been able to live 'healthy' lives fed on a good quality dry complete (with a small amount of tinned meat mixed in).

Each to their own re feeding and with what.  Just my opinion.

> We wouldn't feed kids just brown pellets every day.

Of course not because our kids are not our dogs.   Dogs usually do better on the same food rather than to chop and change all the time - and in any case, isn't a 'complete raw' the same as a 'complete cooked' - only raw?  Since my home-bred hounds have lived good lengthy life (longer than the norm for the breed) with minimal vet visits (there have been the odd exception of course) I've been fairly certain that they have been able to live 'healthy' lives fed on a good quality dry complete (with a small amount of tinned meat mixed in).

It's only comparatively recently that a 'complete' raw food has been available.  I'm talking about all the years we were running our 'small pack' when it was financially and physically less possible for us to raw feed - there was no complete raw food available.  Yes, we only have 2 now, but at ages 10 and 9 years respectively, I'm not going to rock the boat by trying to switch them from what they are doing well on.

Oh gosh, where to start.

>Of course not because our kids are not our dogs

I'm not sure what this means.  Feeling a species-appropriate raw and whole food diet is clearly healthier than feeding the same highly processed brown pellets every day.  It doesn't matter if you are a kid, a dog or an earthworm.  Don't eat brown processed stuff which is unrecognisable as the food source it once was.

>  Dogs usually do better on the same food rather than to chop and change all the time

That's not true actually, for many reasons.  Even if someone is rotating around different kibbles, it's a better idea than constantly feeding the same one.  Time and again there are recalls on different dry foods due to too much or too little of something or due to the presence of a toxin.  Rotating around different foods spreads the load and reduces the risk of a dog being exposed consistently to too much or too little of a nutrient and also reduces the risk of toxins - such as heavy metals which have been found in several dry foods now - building up to the point of becoming symptomatic to the dog.

Research shows that rotating around different protein sources reduces the risk of food allergies developing.

Feeding a diverse and broad/rich diet is by far the best approach to feeding any mammal - within what is species-appropriate of course. 

Yes, if a puppy has been raised on one brand of dog food and fed that for years you will see gastro issues if you change.  That is because the dog's gut isn't accustomed to processing anything else.  It doesn't suggest that all dogs should therefore be fed one food all their lives - quite the opposite - it suggests that raising puppies to be able to eat many different foods so that their guts develop able to process different foods, is advisable.

>isn't a 'complete raw' the same as a 'complete cooked' - only raw? 

Er, the fact that it's raw is what makes it beneficial.  Cooking meat removes many nutrients and good bacteria from it, and renders it much less 'useful' and bioavailable to the dog's body.  Artificial vitamins and minerals (less bioavailable) then have to be added back in via mixes and powders - because cooking has removed much of it.

>Since my home-bred hounds have lived good lengthy life (longer than the norm for the breed) with minimal vet visits (there have been the odd exception of course) I've been fairly certain that they have been able to live 'healthy' lives fed on a good quality dry complete (with a small amount of tinned meat mixed in).

This is just what we call anecdotal evidence and as such, contributes nothing much.  Many of us who feed raw can respond with our own personal experiences of raw fed dogs which have lived long lives.  We can throw anecdotal evidence backwards and forwards forever, without getting anywhere.  That's why we need science...

> Yes, we only have 2 now, but at ages 10 and 9 years respectively, I'm not going to rock the boat by trying to switch them from what they are doing well on.

I don't think I've suggested anywhere that you switch your own dogs, MamaBas?  The last time I checked, this was a thread about giardia in dogs and how to feed/treat them so that it stays away and doesn't return.  Feeding a diet high in healthy and good bacteria, is one sure way I know contributes towards this end.

> Oh gosh, where to start.<br />

I so wish you'd not started because believe it or not, I really don't come here to argue, or be put down for that matter.   You and I clearly differ in some areas and yes 'we' need science but we also need EXPERIENCE.    I speak based on my experience with my main breed over many years, and I KNOW that if I chop and change my hounds' diet, they'd have gastric upsets.  The dig.system of the hound can be sensitive.

> Feeding a diet high in healthy and good bacteria, is one sure way I know contributes towards this end.

On this, I can agree.

But MamaBas, it's a vicious circle - you 'know' not to chop and change, so you don't - and if you ever have to, you see runny stools which confirms your bias.  You don't raise puppies to eat diverse and different foods - because of this belief.... Which in turn means that.... and so on.

One of my breeds is also known for having a dodgy digestive tract, and many of us feed raw successfully - more successfully than any kibble.  My 'EXPERIENCE' is different to yours.  Both are anecdotal.  Therefore neither are that useful.  What is useful, is science and the scientific method.  Arguing backwards and forwards based on personal experiences never gets anywhere....

I know this isn't a raw thread and people probably get fed up with hearing from raw evangelicals but I really wish I had moved my dogs to raw years ago.  Struggling with sensitive tums/colitis for years, allergies, horrid poos and having to withhold food to rest the stomach all gone now.  I was so anti raw until I saw the results and with zero transition time.   I chop and change the meat protein all the time on raw and it so easy as I feed a raw complete.   My gut tells me that raw builds the good bacteria needed to fight things like guirdia by using the acids that a dog naturally has and slowing down the whole process.    I have a dog that couldn't properly digest a piece of cooked lamb and now digests raw bones and meat all the time.  If you are struggling with trying to get a healthy digestive system, don't like what is coming out of your dog and therefore contemplating trying a new food then try a good quality raw complete and see if you get the results you are looking for.  If your dog already has a good healthy digestive systems on other foods then fine, long may that continue.

> Arguing backwards and forwards based on personal experiences never gets anywhere....

Agreed, but I regret I can only contribute based on my personal experience with my main breed.   I won't be bullied into believing I am wrong either.  I'm just here to share and yes, this was in response to the original Giardia question.

I totally agree, Whatevernext.  I too used to be quite anti-raw.  I freaked myself out over the hygiene issues (not so much for the dogs, but for the people in the house) and I also like to train with my dogs meals - which isn't really possible feeding a raw complete.  I saw a lot of dogs in my classes fed raw that lacked food motivation and were overweight which were fed raw - which didn't help my opinion of it.

However, I had an epiphany as a result of human and dog health scares in the family and the research which I did into nutrition as a result of that -  specifically ketogenic diets for dogs, the work of the KetoPet Sanctuary, the Dog Cancer Series of DVDs made by Dr Becker - and then a lot of reading about human nutrition too, like the books Keto for Cancer; Grain Brain etc etc - all of which convey how harmful carbs are, especially highly processed carbs.  They are not great for humans and as dogs CAN process carbs but are even more carnivorous than humans are, I think it's safe to say they are even worse for dogs.  And kibble is mostly carbs.

I knew that, no matter what, I was going to feed raw after all that research.  My dogs' poos are now miniscule bullets and we spend much less money on raw complete (Nutriment) than we did on high quality kibble.  (Tip - you need to feed a lot less than recommended on the raw complete packets though, IMO - we would be feeding a lot more and it would be unaffordable if we were feeding what the packets say!!)  And when I want to do a lot of training with meals, I use Ziwipeak for that meal instead of the complete raw.  No carbs in Ziwi either. 

Anyway - I too used to be one of these people either just not listening to the raw advocates and tuning them out or opposed to them as well, so I guess I know how it feels to be on that side.

But if u are considering raw please do your research first. All complete/ premades are not equal by any means and still may need tweaks for your individual. If u are going to go raw u need to understand how to make those  tweaks for your dog regardless of if u are going to use premades or DIY. Without that u may be feeding unbalanced or think it's not right for.yours when all it needs was a bit of something changed .