Dear All - Another question:-)

We have now had poppy for 2 weeks - our lives have changed already. She is lovely and has adapted well to our family, house, garden etc. In fact most pleasingly she is almost house trained!

Having read 'Perfect Puppy' and other literature, I am aware that setting rules and monitoring behaviour are v. important. Obviously, Poppy is a pup and is now fully settled in our house so has over the last few days become a biting (and sometimes growling) very active puppy. I have read all of the 'biting' threads and understand that this is quite normal and am taking action to try and avoid it e.g. using 'NO' and ensuring there are always toys available to swop our hands and clothes for. Occassionally we are also resorting to turning away and ignoring her.

My question is, is it normal to growl when she is waiting for her food, or when she want to come on my knee?? For a bit of background, I will explain that she was the biggest pup in the litter of 5 and probably the most confident!! We are ensuring that she eats after us, is not allowed on the sofa or upstairs etc.

Any other comments would be gratefully received.
Thanks
K.

Hi Karen
As you are aware, I have a mini S too…and I would say her behaviour is perfectly
Normal (to me anyway??)

Rufus does the growl thing too and goes into a down ‘attack’ position…normally when he is excited or getting impatient with me!
It is not aggressive just playful and I think it is very sweet and humourous. In fact, I nearly always end up on the floor in the same position as him – to which he responds by jumping on top of me and licking me to death!!

As you are new VERY aware, and as I told you the other week – mini schnauzers can be very confident and cocky and think the world revolves around them and so really Poppy is just ‘mouthing off’ and reminding you she is there (how could you forget!).

Don’t worry, however I don’t allow him to behave like this around other people or dogs, He knows when enough is enough!

Keep me updated anyway, and well done on the house training! :-)

Louise x

PS I have quickly learnt not to expect everything I have read from books, alot of it is the theory of the "perfect dog" - they do not exist!

Hi Louise,
I was a bit concerned about your mention of the down "attack" position your puppy goes into - this is probably the "play-bow" which is a dog's invitation to play, and has nothing to do with attack!! You'd be surprised how many dogs are put up for rehoming because their owners say "he keeps wanting to attack me" when all he is doing is normal canine body-language for "let's have a game". Friendly adult dogs do it to each other, and each knows it's utterly friendly, so please don't stop your pup expressing itself properly! :)

Jeangenie,

Did you read my post properly?

If you had, you would have read that I get down on the floor
with him too to join in the game which results in him licking me to death!

When he is out playing with other dogs or guests in my home,
he can play to his hearts content but I would not allow him to do this with any strange dog or person for his own safety!

I know this is playful behavour, as I CLEARLY stated this in my original post!!!

I described it as 'attack' position as this was the only way I could think how - I apologise I am not clued up on your lingo!

Hi Louise,
Steady on, I meant no personal attack! :) Just that lots of people do misinterpret this body position as being aggressive and punish their dog for it - I did read that you understand it and play with him - others don't!

Sadly it doesn't occur to many people (and I am not saying that you are one of them) that different species have different body language to people.

Just out of interest, and not trying to insinuate anything here, how does he initiate play with people and dogs when you're out? :)

Yes he will initiate play with anything with a pulse as he is only 20 weeks old.
However I am very cautious as to whom and whether they are approachable. I am like this as a woman in the local park had her schnauzer attacked by a strange dog. I am only defensive because I love him so much and we do all we can for him! (i.e. 60 mile round trip for a play on a beach)

He has around five regular canine friends, plus starts classes in a week.

"Play with anything with a pulse"!!:D :D

He sounds lovely - good luck at the classes! :)

sorry for stressing jeangenie.. :-)

He is lovely and is very well known in our area as the fluffy teady bear (no one seems to know much about schnauzers!!) amongst the school kids and adults alike!!

:)

Heheh, Charlie (Lhasa Apso) is on a weeks enforced rest this week due to a sprained leg. I was stopped at the local shops this afternoon by a chap we see most afternoons on Chrlies walk - his little girl has been pestering the life out of him wanting to no why the 'teddy dog' hasn't been in the woods :)

My mini growls a lot at my other dog. It's just to say come on...don't just lie there...play with me. It's not an agressive growl and I think if you watch the situation which causes your mini to growl you will see that it's because she's excited or she wants to play. My mini also growls when he wants you to respond to something. I believe it's just the way they are. They're quite vocal and like to talk to you in this way to try and get their message across. I've got so used to it I didn't realise my mini was doing this until someone with a previous post had a similar problem. I went home that evening and noticed my mini did indeed growl. I personally wouldn't worry about it.

Louise, Jeangenie & Nicola

Thanks for the reassurance. It actually doesnt worry me at all, but as I have a 5 year old I have to be a little careful and we are having to actively discourage too much boisterous play for her sake. Poppy is really funny and talking of them being vocal she picks up on every door bell and door knock on tv and starts to growl or bark. This is really amusing as we dont think she has every heard our door bell!

My slight concern was that she seemed to want to bite and 'hang on' to my daughter the most and this is when the growling started. But I now feel happier that it is just the Schnauzer's cheeky way and that they are quite vocal.

I'm probably a little over concerned somtimes, as I have only every had one dog before, and she was a puppy some 25 years ago!!!!!

Thanks for your help. I now Rufus is 20 weeks, how old is your dog Nicola. Jeangenie I think you have several - am i right???

Hi Karen,
Yes, I'm now down to 4 (though it does seem like more, sometimes, especially when I look at their food bills!) though I have had more in the past...unintentionally - I keep one to "replace" an oldie in the fullness of time, and the oldie goes on and on (much to my delight I hasten to add! :)) by which time the 'replacement' is the right age for a first litter, and one stays....and the oldie goes on....:)

Sounds like wonderful fun! Poppy alone has pretty much already taken over our lives (we got her two weeks ago today). If you dont mind, I shall certainly come back to you for more advice as we go along, along with the other Mini S owners.

Bye the way, another question that I cannot answer in any of my books is at what age to they usually reach their full size? At 8.5 weeks old (Poppy had her first injections and weighed 2.8 kgs), she had grown an amazing amount since then and she will be weighed again on Monday (her second inj). She was the biggest in her litter of 5 and I'd love to have a guage of how big she will be. Any clues?

Thank you
Karen.

Sorry, Karen, I didn't make it clear that I have dals, not schnauzers (though I have been tempted by the standards...!) so I'm not one to ask about specialist breed stuff (unless it's dals) but I'm fairly up to speed with basic dog stuff! :)

I have a breed that uses a wide range of vocalisation. All manner of growls groans and mini and not so mini barks, that have nothing to do with aggression. In fact if ohne of my bitc hes is giving a young upstart of a dog the P**s off, it is usually a serious of lip lifts and an argh type growl, which is understood perfectly by dogs!! :D

I remeber my softest bitch, who was my first homebred pup growled a lot in play, and I reprimanded her for this. I now realise that it was not aggressive, and actually undermineed her confidence somewhat, and she is one of those that will become ingratiating if you are cross or raise your voice, trying to passify, even when it has nothing to do with her. I think some of this may be due to her confusipon over being reprimanded for doing wrong, when she wasn't.

I have never found that a reprimand for something that is obviously wrong in the dogs mind ever upsets them past the moment, as they seem to shrug and almost say "fair enough I was overdoing it", but a dog that is chastised for something it can't understand (such as soiling hours before) can really upset a puppy, and undermine th4e relationship.

I think we can all learn an awful lot from watching well adjusted socialised dogs, especially a family group interacting. The way they play, reprimand, submit can help us communicate our wishes to a puppy!

Again, thanks for all the advice/comments. We are trying not to be too hard on Poppy, but we are having to reprimand her to some extent for biting or hanging on clothes, this is really for the sake of my daugher - as the bites do hurt her young skin!! But, already my daughter has developed a lovely bond with her - this morning she wasnt quite sure if she loved Poppy or me the most :-(

We are hoping to start a 6 week puppy socialisation course on Saturday, which will be great as the whole family can go. This will hopefully boost my confidence to some extent as to what the right and wrong things to do are. We shall then go on to do some basic obedience.

But, again thanks for all your reassurance it has stopped me worrying.

Karen.

I think you're right not to worry about the growling now...but you're also right in correcting behaviour that isn't really acceptable. They're very playful little dogs but you do have to teach them a few manners from time to time. My mini played using his teeth a lot and he was forever hanging on to our trouser legs as a pup. They do grow out of it honestly...but it takes a while. In the mean time I'm not sure what to advise with regarding to stopping her naughty behaviour...I often find a good sharp, loud NO suffices when they're being really naughty (might take a couple of attempts at this when they're so young and playful). They don't like to displease you and this will become more apparent as they grow older.

My mini is nearly two years old now. I think he continued growing until he was about 10 months (but I can't remember very well now). He's now approx 10kg. Bitches don't grow as big as the dogs so i expect yours will weigh less when fully grown.

Good luck with the socialisation classes. My mini loved his ringcraft classes, but he gets so excited he barks the place down constantly and everyone goes home with a headache. He was very good at being trained with treats, but whilst standing around he wanted to meet and play with every single dog.

Nicola

Interestingly, I think she has already started to understand (some of the time), that NO means no more biting skin or clothes. She already seems to have calmed down a little since last Wed/Thursday when she seemed to turn into a complete 'little devil'. Today is has had her second injections and so we can take her out on the lead next week - which will be great fun!

Thanks for the info on growth - I didnt realise that they grew for as long as that. It's quite interesting, but many web sites and other info sources describe the Mini S as weighing around 14 lbs when full grown, but many of those I have met are nearer the 20 lb mark. Poppy was around 7 1/2 pounds this morning (and is 10.5 weeks), she was certainly the biggest in the litter - it will be interesting to see how much she grows.

We have visited only one Ringcraft class (because I wanted to meet a mini s breeder). There were 3 mini schnauzers there that evening and they made more noise than all the other dogs put together:-) I was very impressed when after they had a little funl, the owner said 'no barking' and the two older Mini S. were immediately quiet.

Thanks again
Karen.

Hi Karen
Nothing to do with the original post...just thought I would
let you know I had Rufus to the groomers for the first time
on saturday...and I howled laughing for 10 mins when I went
to pick him up!
I din't have the full 'classic schnauzer' cut as I didn't want his outer ears shaved, his beard or legs touched.
But before you could hardly see his eyes he had that much fur but now
his face is even more expressive and soooo cheeky! (in fact sure I saw him roll his eyes at me yesterday :-) ha ha

Louise x

ps we start puppy classes tonight and I am VERY excited!!

Hi Louise

I bet Rufus looks a treat. That's useful info to me, as I wasnt sure when I should first have Poppy clipped - she'll be 11 weeks on Fri, so I can wait a while! I did bath her on Sunday, which was fun (as it was her first bath, I avoided her head area - will tackle that next time).

I want Poppy to remain quite scruffy looking, so I want to keep quite a fluffy face/ears and legs like you. Which part of the face have you had trimmed? How did he cope at the groomers? At the moment I can only groom Poppy when she is asleep otherwise she bites me and the brushes to bits!!

Hope the Puppy classes go well - is it basic obedience or socialisation?

BFN
Karen.

Hi Karen
Well hopefully I can be of use to you.
Sounds like Poppy behaves very much like Rufus did at 11 weeks.
Grooming became a nightmare, I even posted on here!
We started using a rubber mat on a table, but Rufus hated it, went barmy and was constantly biting the brush.
So what we now do is use two brushes..he chews on one and we
groom with another, he now LOVES IT!! and he can sit for hours literally
and ends up looking so beautiful!
I eventually realised it is much better for him to enjoy grooming sessions
Rather than it be a chore for both parties! We groom him every day.

He had his eyebrows trimmed (so he could actually see! Ha ha) and around his head.
But his beard, outer ears, and legs were not touched!

Also how are you finding doing her ears? Rufus hates it but as you know it is so important to keep them free of hair, in fact Rufus has a bit of an infection at the moment.

Now bath times are bliss – he enjoys it so much. I begin by lathering puppy shampoo over his back, legs and under body…then I rinse of with warm water through shower head. Then I wet his head with wet hands, and use a large sponge to clean his face, beard and head. I then let him dry off, and brush him off. Then half an hour later do a full groom – he smells and looks delicious!! J

Rufus enjoyed the groomers and the canine buddies he made! She also gave him a good spray of dog perfume (whatever next!!)

They are obedience and socialisation, the club is KC reg and the
dogs work towards various certificates..think it is Good Citizen something or other!

Louise x

Hi Louise

Good tip for groomer, not sure Nipper (Poppy) would even bear that yet , but it's worth a try:-)

I shall bear in mind your grooming instructions for the first visit in a few weeks.

Also, thought I'd let you know that the switch to Eukanuba is going well - think we will be on only this by Saturday. It's a fine art, weighing out the different components of her diet and gradually switching from one to the other. I have to prepare it all in the morning to ensure that hubby and daughter dont get it wrong!!

Bye for now
Karen.