I had my bitch scanned at 30 days and told she was in pip with 5-6 pups, but she never got a belly, so I took her to the vets to have her scanned at 52 days as it was just before Xmas and couldn’t get her in to the original scanner, vet scanned her and fetched another vet to scan her as well and both said no pups, she’s not got any belly at all, she would have been due 30th to first mating, she been very quiet and quite clingy and digging quite a bit last couple of days, she currently licking herself quite a lot and has had a bit of stringy discharge, some times when I feel her belly I can feel a ‘lump’ but not sure if it’s the bladder or poop.... never had this with a mates bitch before so not sure what to think, she’s a toy breed so should definitely see something if she was pregnant,
Do you think she could be having a phantom labour? Could the vets have missed a single pup? Or could there be something more sinister pyo ect?

Scans only show a bitch in whelp, or not AT THE TIME OF THE SCAN.   Unfortunately bitches can reabsorb so perhaps this is what's happened.   Personally I'd let her go to a couple of days over her due date and then have your vet x-ray - which is far more reliable.    Normally (bearing in mind there is nothing 'normal' in any pregnancy/whelping, each bitch being different to a point) you'd see puppies moving around by the seventh week, and I'd have thought a toy breed bitch with '5 - 6' puppies would have been big.

From my experience phantoms happen after the bitch would have had a litter.   If she has a closed pyo you'd not see any discharge but the bitch would be ill and running a temperature.   Obviously with an open pyo, there'd be a nasty foul discharge.    Only your vet can tell you exactly what's going on there.

My feeling was she had absorbed when she didn’t grow a belly, that’s why I took her to be re scanned, she’s gone to sleep now but spent half the night digging my bed up and hiding under the covers, apart from being a bit quieter than normal and the digging she’s her usual self, she’s a quite dog to start with though, she doesn’t seem unwell at all it was just the little bit of stringy discharge that I saw which has thrown me, it was clear though, not green or smelly

I’d opt for an X-ray so that you know what you are dealing with.

She’s in surgery now for an emergency spay, it was pyo but very early and she’s not unwell so fingers crossed everything will go ok

Hope all goes well.

Hopefully all goes well x

I think you wanted reassurance more than anything.  It's obvious that you're experienced and had a good idea about what to look for.

So sorry about your girl, but glad that you caught her so early.  I hope she sails through it.  Good Luck. 

Thank you everyone, really pissed off now, she’s been sat in a kennel since 12pm and is still waiting to go to surgery

Your right jean, iv never had to deal with pyo before but I’d read the signs, I messaged a couple of my mentors and sent a not so nice pic and they both confirmed what I thought

When one of ours had a pyo in the summer we were told that she needed to have iv antibiotics before the op. She went in one evening and was operated on around mid day the next day.

We was told she’d be in by the afternoon but they’ve had emergency’s in so she’s last in the que

That is awful,you must be worried sick.

Really considering picking her up if her condition hasn’t changed and taking her to my own vet at 8am

I’d agree with that. How is she now?

For sure, I'd be picking her up............... she might as well sit at home with you rather than in an emergency clinic!

Looking at the timing, I hope she's in with your own vet now, and does well!!  Good wishes .... NOT the way to start a New Year

ps   I had this happen with one of mine - took him in for a dental at 8.30 AM and because they had 'emergencies' and they do their dentals last thing, he wasn't worked on before about 5 PM.   We couldn't pick him up before 7.30 PM.    IF there's another such need, I'll be taking him in WHEN THEY ARE READ TO DO THE DENTAL.   As it was, being a softie, he was really upset by the time we brought him home.   This isn't necessary.

Oh gosh, I thought it was only our vet that this happened at.  I had an oldie that needed a lump removed and was assured that if we took her in first thing (8am) she'd be first on the list and out in 2 hours - to reduce stress at her age.

It was not easy for us to get there for 8am, being rush hour and on the other side of town, but we did it. 

She wasn't operated on until 3pm, due to 'emergencies' - and spent all that time in a cage.  My heart hurt for her so much, she did stress when away from her people anyway and even if drugged it was awful.  I wish they had given us the chance to get her, but they have given them their premeds on admittance I think...

Well I collected her at 12.20am, she was in my vets at 8.50am to be told she does have a slightly enlarged uterus but there no pus in there so it’s not what pyo would present with and as she has no other symptoms to put her on a strong course of antibiotics and scan her again in 2 days! So to say I’m highly p**sed off right now is an understatement! She probably doesn’t need an operation so she spent 13.5 hours in an emergency vets waiting for an operation we might be able to avoid and not to mention the cost of sitting in that kennel... and the fluids after 12am they have added to the bill even though I phoned at 12.03 and said I was on my way!!

What an awful experience. I’m just thankful that my vet does their own out of hours. There have been a lot of changes and the practice has been bought over by a large company but I hope that this doesn’t change.

So iv has her notes emailed to me and apparently she was administered iv fluids at 00.23 and I was charged the after midnight price for this which is double the price than before midnight... I was at the vets picking her up at around 00.20 after I’d rang them at 00.03 to tell them I was on my way... so iv paid for fluids (£136) that either she didn’t get or was given before midnight but charged for... we were on our way home at 00.40 because I messaged my mentor to tell her, I’m going to email the vets to question this

OH MY GOODNESS

So, on the subject of pyo - PLEASe don't think she doesn't have one.  Early symptoms can be very subtle and hard to spot.  Many don't run a fever. 

You need to run bloods - have you done that?  You need to run them, wait a period (if she is still ok), like 24-48hrs and then run them again to spot the aberrations.  When dogs have pyo, there will be a marked elevation of white blood cells and there is another protein produced by the immune system called globulin, which often is also raised.  These results don't always show up immediately the dog seems unwell, which is why it's important to test again in 24-48hrs to keep monitoring things until you know, one way or the other, what's happening.

What ABs is she on?

Sadly after mating is a typical time for pyo to develop because bacteria can be introduced at the time of mating, so I think pyo watch is a good thing for everyone to be especially doing after a mating.

She is going to be rescanned on Friday morning and if there is no improvement then she will be spayed, vet wouldn’t give her the injection that treats pyo because she’s got no fluid in her uterus, she was more concerned that it could be a pup that hasn’t fully reabsorbed and may have mummified inside her which she said the antibiotics should deal with, we had very mild kc when she was 5 weeks mated so my thoughts are she’s reabsorbed at this point, she’s on synulox 250mg half tablet twice a day, she weighs 6.7kg so it’s a higher dose than the 12mg/kg that’s usually given, bloods were run yesterday morning, I couldn’t tell you the results though but vet didn’t say there was anything wrong with them, vet was very confident this morning, even commented that she’ll be fine to show at Manchester.... we shall see about that though

Why has there been no x-ray?   If there's talk of a mummified puppy in there, I'd have expected that to be done, not just a scan.

As far as I'm aware, synulox is a broad spectrum antibiotic.

All I can say is I'm glad to have a vet practice who has out of hours cover where I call the normal number, their Service picks up, takes my details, calls the vet on duty who calls me straight back with advice or an appointment to meet me at the practice.

I guess the vet doesn't want to go for spay right now ......?   But regardless, spending all that time in a vet's office and the cost would leave me more than a little upset!!   I'd let the dust settle - get her back on track, and then calmly consider your options re this vet, going forward

X-rays wasn’t mentioned, at 30 days we had a private scan done, I’m not sure how qualified this lady is to scan, I found her on fb I never use to scan my larger breed, but we didn’t want to miss shows or ringcraft unnecessarily, this lady said she saw lots of black fluid sacks 5-6 was her guess as she spotted more if she turned the scanner, the lady did say she didn’t look 30 days as the ‘pups’ were tiny but she worked it out, not sure if she measured them or not but she said I was right with my days.... a week later 3 of my dogs come down with kennel cough, very mild, hacking when excited for 2 day and that was it, this bitch never looked pregnant but the 2 bottom teats were very lightly swollen, so I took her to my vet just before Xmas when she would have been around 53 days if i remember correctly, 2 vets scanned her and said they couldn’t see any pups at all but they kept seeing a bit of fluid next to the bladder where pups would have been but they thought it was probably intestine..... if she had been pregnant she would have been due on the 30th to the first mating if she took that day.... fast forward to 2 days ago, she was digging my bed up a little bit but not overly but then through the night she was digging more, that’s when I started thinking if vets had missed a pup and she was starting to go into labour, so I left her too it... then yesterday morning I noticed a small amount of straw coloured discharge and thought if she was pregnant it was probably the first sac leaking as that’s what the discharge looked like, but I also had pyo in the back of my mind, I sent a pic of the discharge to 2 of my friends and mentors in the breed and both said take her straight in.... so that’s where it started

If a mummified pup can’t be picked up on ultrasound, would it be picked up on X-ray if she absorbed around 5 weeks? That’s when we think she probably absorbed, the time we had kc IF she was pregnant to start with

If you look on fb on Janeiro's Dog Grooming & Ultrasound scan page on the 27th November there is a pic of her scan done at 30 days

If she's absorbed or partially absorbed the pup, there may well not be enough calcified bone to show on x-ray. 

However, if she has absorbed a litter, you would *expect* there to be 'stuff' in her uterus as a result of that, no?  I mean, it's got to take time for her body to absorb and process what was there - especially if she got to 5 weeks pregnant.  It's not just going to disappear.  That doesn't mean it's pyo either though. 

I'm not sure you should spay on Friday just because there's some fluid in her uterus - is what I'm saying - I'd kind of expect that to be there, no??

There is no fluid at all in her, if she stays her happy self then I’ll stick with the antibiotics as long as scan doesn’t show things are worse, my vets are open over the weekend as well so that’s less of a worry and they are only 300 yards away, they just don’t have 24 hour care