Hi
I have just joined this site as I have just lost an old English sheepdog and am looking for some answers where possible.
our beautiful dog was just 4 and a half years old and became unwell very quickly.
he was diagnosed with chronic kidney failure and within 3 weeks he had to be put to rest, which quite frankly has broke our hearts.
I have contacted the breeder but have had no reply.
has anybody else experienced this? the vet says it is rare for most dogs.
look forward to any help.
gc

Sadly there are many reasons for kidney failure, as with people, with dogs being scavengers ingesting poisons etc is always a possibility.

A few breeds do have hereditary causes, and some are lucky enough to have DNA tests to prevent affected puppies being produced.

This may be of interest to show perspective: 2004 https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/16638/old%20english%20sheepdog.pdf , 2014 https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/749607/old_english_sheepdog.pdf

The 2004 health survey sample was larger than the 2014

that makes interesting reading.
I understand your point about scavengers etc but there is absolutely no way our dog ingested anything untoward from his time with us, however, I cannot be sure about the breeder. we went to see him every week from three days old till we took him home. after about four  weeks all the pups were running around in the garden with the parents which at the time we were a bit puzzled about but now I am questioning whether this was right or not. the house was in the middle of no where in the country. the vet did wonder whether something could have been ingested at this time or not but I suppose we will never know. I have phoned and emailed the breeder but with no joy.
I will be looking for a new pup in the spring if you know of any.
thanks for your reply.
gc

> after about four  weeks all the pups were running around in the garden with the parents which at the time we were a bit puzzled about but now I am questioning whether this was right or not.

It's absolutely normal and totally correct for puppies to be playing in the garden from this age; it shows the litter's being reared properly, with the right exercise and mental and physical stimulation.

I'm so sorry for the sudden loss of your beloved dog, but it's highly unlikely to be connected to anything the breeder did 4 years ago. Is it possible he ate something like mince pies or Christmas cake? These can cause kidney damage.

> but it's highly unlikely to be connected to anything the breeder did 4 years ago. Is it possible he ate something like mince pies or Christmas cake? These can cause kidney damage.

As is Xylotol in so many products especially chewing gum.  Dogs being dogs they will manage to scavenge all sorts of things without us knowing even.

Don't understand why you puzzled about puppies being in a garden at 4 weeks of age & that something ingested then could affect your dog some 4 + years later. All the puppies I have ever had have always been outside(weather permitting of course) from around 4 weeks of age. What on earth does your vet presume the then puppy could have ingested-something poisonous that takes over 4 years to act ??

Because dogs like most animals are very stoical that can be seriously for a long time before symptoms become apparent sadly.

I've had dogs that have been perfectly healthy looking & acting one day that have died over night or next day for no apparent reason, that have been found to have end stage cancer throughout their bodies, the pain from which would have had a human struggling. It's part of their survival instinct. Fortunately none as young as yours

All you can do is find a breeder who does all possible health testing & who have long living dogs for the breed.

Unless a breed has a known problem with kidney conditions for which there is a DNA test, there is little breeders can do other than keep health records of the dogs they have breed & btry not to breed from known producers of a possinle genetic condition

im not looking for blame, im trying to understand his early death. the only reason im now thinking about those first weeks is because there was a farm next door to the house, the vet said the damage could have been caused by leptospirosis, which is carried by rats, so who knows.
ive had no reply from the breeder and I have tried by phone and email to see if any of the other pups from this litter had any problems, looking for some closure really.

It doesn't sound like the vet is actually being very helpful  imo some odd comments .
it's very unlikely that anything the breeder did or didn't do this far on will have caused the problem unless of course there is a kidney problems in the line from genetic causes or testing that should have been done
I am not familiar with what pre mating test should be done for this breed.

Unfortunately kidney failure can happen an sometimes it's impossible to find the cause.
If u search under kidneys in this forum u will find posts about the subject. Some with happy endings and some not so.its so sad to lose a dog and even more so if u don't get to the bottom of the reason.sadly we dont always
.If u Google kidney failure in dogs u will also see a lot of information that may help u understand more as I think u will find it is not rare from things I've read
.if he had caught lepto it's unlikely he would of had no signs until now. I am very sorry for your loss

the only reason im now thinking about those first weeks is because there was a farm next door to the house, the vet said the damage could have been caused by leptospirosis, which is carried by rat

I LIVE on a small farm(well small holding) & none of my dogs have ever caught Leptospirosis that resulted in symptoms being seen & certainly if your then puppy had contracted Leptospirosis you would have known long before he developed kidney failure. Did the vet bother to test for Leptospirosis ??

As others have written kidney failure can be the result of many causes & to try to find what actually caused your dog's demise could only be discovered by a full autopsy done by an expert not a GP vet.

>there was a farm next door to the house, the vet said the damage could have been caused by leptospirosis, which is carried by rats, so who knows.

In the UK there are rats, and therefore leptospirosis, everywhere, especially in watercourses. Any dog that goes splashing in puddles, or goes swimming, can contract lepto through a break in the skin. But the incubation period is about 2 weeks, so it's unlikely he'd have been ill with it for 4 years without you noticing.

While not as young as your boy, I had a devastating loss 5 years ago.  My girl was 7 - but it was a breed that easily lives 16 years, so I certainly had no reason to think I would lose her.  Total renal failure was heartbreaking.  I loved her so much, and miss her to this day.  This was a Yorkshire Terrier from my own lines, and I'd never experienced any kidney problems previously. 

All my girls' siblings are still going strong, and hopefully have several years left.  I think searching for answers would destroy me.  There are no answers sometimes.  I am so very sorry for your loss, and I know your pain.

I'm really feeling for you - it's not good to ever lose a much loved pet, but especially when it's only young.  

However, putting my (retired)breeder hat on, after 4 years, UNLESS you are able to confirm an hereditary problem there, I'd hate to have a finger pointed at me if a disaster like this happened.   Of course, I'd store it in my 'to know' mind so if it started to happen to a sig.number of puppies I'd bred, I'd need to take steps to go in another direction with my breeding programme.    What has happened is quite simply too long after the puppy was sold otherwise (assuming it was the normal age for a puppy to go to a new home?).   Kidney failure quite often isn't seen until it's pretty advanced in any case.  Which suggests that it was sudden, when it was not.

As said, there are many things that might cause this so you might think back re food that could cause this - like chocolate that, over time, can build up to the point organs are affected.

Puppies running around outside - well as soon as the weather allowed, we had our puppies out in their big ex-pen to run around which gave me a chance for a thorough clean-up of the whelping box, which with a big litter, was certainly needed.  So quite frankly, there's nothing abnormal about a breeder doing this.   I do question why your vet would suggest there was anything that happened then, would take 4 years to manifest itself!

Trying to find out the whys, when a dog suddenly collapses with something like kidney failure is understandable, but unfortunately with any living being, stuff just happens.  All you can do is, if you go for another puppy, make sure you know all the things a breed might suffer with, and which can be tested for - and that the breeder DOES those tests before going ahead with a mating.

So sorry for you - it hurts.

I do feel very sorry for you.  Have you considered posting on the OES forum to ask generally about what your dog died of but also enquiring about siblings.  Might be helpful for that closure you are looking for. Here is the link if you are interested.  http://forum.oes.org

Too late to edit my previous post.  Just to add that I still have the mum of the girl that I lost and have had her tested twice now (it made me paranoid) but the vet keeps giving me the all clear.  It wasn't a hereditary problem.  It just happened.

It is sad that the breeder hasn't had the courtesy to respond to you though.

Given the time of year, it is possible that the breeder is away / has family visiting / etc.

They may have a new phone number / not be checking emails.

I really hope they do get back to you, also for comfort as this is a terrible tragedy to go through. I completely understand why you want answers, but the reality is that you  might never know exactly what caused the failure :(  So sorry you've had to go through this xx

I very nearly lost a puppy recently due to kidney failure. We still don't know the reason why and as such I am still worried to death. He is from a second litter from the same mating and none of the other puppies are affected in any way. The vets were sure it was a toxin, but I have no idea what. Alabama Rot was also speculated, but the vets and specialists had never heard of a case without skin lesions.
Sometimes, as upsetting as it is, we will just never get the answer.

I think your unfortunate situation is well.worth thinking about and might reassure the op that sadly we can't always know the answers and he isn't alone . Hope your little one continues to do well

My old girl had kidney failure (among other issues) and we then discovered that there are certain commercial pet foods which can actually cause it - pedigree and bakers being 2 examples off the top of my head. I won't go near them any more!

So sorry for your loss, and I totally understand you questioning things, as we did when we lost our 8 year old. We were heartbroken, her sire outlived her to the age of 15 years. Her Mum is still well at 13 and her sister at 10 so we feel very cheated of the years we missed out on with her