I’m going to need a couple of doses of this in the new year and was wondering if I should get my vet to order some in now as I don’t quite trust the availability of it(!!)- is anyone having difficulties getting hold of it at the moment?

I know a few months ago there were shortages: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/archive/2018/08/23/eurican-herpes-vaccine-unavailable-indefinitely.aspx

Is it back in stock?

Thx

Totally out of stock at the moment. I managed to get one at a vet about 40 minutes from me 4 weeks ago but need another in 3 weeks time and I’m not holding out much hope.

Totally out of stock and you can't order it in at the moment. Ive this week called around and found a vet 30mins from me who had some for the 2nd jab.
I was prepared to drive any distance or see if they would send it to my vet if too far out 
It always seems to be this time of year they have issues with manufacturing.

Oh gawd! We will be breeding in Feb so I will keep everything crossed they get it back in!

I emailed the manufacturers and they said:

"Unfortunately we are out of stock of Eurican Herpes and we are currently unable to confirm exactly when the vaccine will be re-stocked. As there are no other canine herpes vaccines available, this means that veterinary practices are unable to offer herpes vaccination to dogs until the current stock issue is resolved. We do understand how disruptive and frustrating it is when vaccines aren’t available. We would like to reassure dog breeders that we are doing everything we can behind the scenes to re-establish supply, and we thank them for their support and patience.

We hope this information is useful. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call our Technical Services Team on 01344 746957 (UK) or 01 291 3985 (Ireland) or email us at vetenquiries@boehringer-ingelheim.com."

If they can't even give us a date when it MIGHT be expected to be back in stock, this is looking like a pretty permanent situation.  Anyone got any insider info or vet contacts?? 

I guess this is down to the uncertainty re the current European Union situation.   I REFUSE to use the word Brexit (but there, I have!!).   I guess if you have any contact in Europe, they might be able to buy for you and mail it to you, or perhaps you could travel to Europe yourself?

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/infectious-parasitic/canine-herpesvirus-causes-diagnosis-and-treatment

I thought this link might be of interest - it's not available in the USA but I don't recall many incidences of fading puppies, considering mum can't be protected against this.   Go to the final paragraph re how best to avoid this hitting a litter ..................Note " For this reason, pregnant dogs should be isolated from other dogs during that six week period".   Relevant!!

I have to say we never had to use this, or had fading puppies.   There was a point, after we returned to the UK and went to an outside stud, when we were asked to give our bitch a/bs just before being mated.   I wasn't aware about this, and indeed when I asked my vet here for a/bs, she said 'why, your bitch isn't sick and DOESN'T NEED A/Bs'.   In other words, she refused to prescribe me any - I think quite rightly.

I have a friend in Germany and it is also unavailable there.  It is unavailable throughout Europe.  It's a manufacturing issue, not a supply issue....

Dogs don't need to have direct contact with another dog to contract it, they can get it just from sniffing a plant which another dog has peed on....

"A dog is infected by coming in contact with an affected dog’s oral, nasal, or vaginal secretions. Unlike other viruses, such as parvo, which is very hardy in the environment, herpesvirus is relatively unstable outside of the host, so close contact is required for transmission."   From the linked article.

Oh good, I hope that's right!  On the other hand, I worry my bitch hasn't been exposed to it then, as I do all I can to avoid close contact with other dogs when out - since most of them are out of control!!

Just for interest as I don't breed. Can it only be passed on if in the active as in something like shingles ? If not can it be passed during mating from the sire ?

If the stud has an active herpes infection at time of mating then yes, it can be passed on at time of mating.  But if he has had it previously and it's latent in him, then no, it won't be passed on - is my understanding anyway.

If a dog (male or female) has had it before, their body has made antibodies before and fought off the virus.  But the virus hides out in the body, undetected, and at times of stress (pregnancy being one) the virus can come out again - OR the dog can contract it from another dog for the first time.  The dog makes antibodies, but because it takes time for the dam's body to make the antibodies, they have usually absorbed the litter by the time they have fought the virus off and got the antibodies for it.  The herpes jab gives them the antibodies already, so if they get the virus, they can fight it off right away before it can do anything.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/infectious-parasitic/canine-herpesvirus-causes-diagnosis-and-treatment

I thought it worth repeating this link - read the final paragraph (at least!).

It is worth bearing in mind that nearly all dogs have come in contact with the virus at some time.

"How Common is Canine Herpesvirus?

The herpesvirus itself is very common in canines. Its prevalence in the population is estimated to be about 70%, but this does not mean the majority of dogs show signs of disease.

Like most herpesviruses, after the initial period the virus goes latent in the body and the dog seems outwardly unaffected."

So it would be very unlikely/unlucky that a bitch would come into contact with it for the first time during pregnancy, unless she was kept very isolated from other dogs all her life.

I really don't think that would apply to a regularly shown bitch, walked regularly with other dogs, so I have never bothered with the vaccine. 

In fact I had thought it might be a good idea, but every time I have had a litter in recent years there have been issues of availability..

As the virus seems to be activated during stress in susceptible individuals with weaker immune systems, I wonder is vaccinating actually a good thing in the long run, allowing the breeding of dogs with wakened immune systems????

> I really don't think that would apply to a regularly shown bitch, walked regularly with other dogs, so I have never bothered with the vaccine.

Ditto.   Sometimes, with all this testing, etc.etc. I wonder if we are making life more difficult than it needs to be.   I would just add we have been 'lucky' enough not to have suffered through Fading Puppy syndrome.   The breeder of my Whippet had two litters, at the same time, and lost THE LOT to this.   Heartbreaking indeed.

MamaBas, don't you think that the prevalence of ai matings in the US has an impact on the incidence of canine herpes/fading puppy syndrome?

> don't you think that the prevalence of ai matings in the US has an impact on the incidence of canine herpes/fading puppy syndrome?

It's been said that over there, with a 'popular' stud dog, coupled with the distances involved, using AI has reduced the possibility of said stud dog(s) picking up some infection from a visiting bitch.   When we travelled from Toronto to Philadelphia only to fine the dog we'd gone down to use wasn't that keen on mating with her (she was right on, tested by their vet just prior to doing an AI) we went ahead with that, trying again (no luck) the following day for a natural mating just before leaving for home, at least we returned home with 'something there'!   Even if the result was only 2 male puppies (one sadly doa).   We went back the following year for a repeat which resulted in a natural mating, and 5 puppies.   How using AI specifically relates to 'the incidence of canine herpes/fading puppy syndrome' - unknown.

Folks, 80% of ALL dogs have been exposed to CHV.  It is not something that is transmitted only by mating, just by dogs sniffing noses or butts will transmit it. 

So it has nothing to do with AIs in the US....!  US and UK dogs sniff noses and butts just as frequently!!

Equally, it has nothing to do with the immune system - adult dogs will get infected and will have almost no signs of that, before their body makes the antibodies and all is fine again.  That is a normally functioning immune system - it recognises the virus and it creates the antibodies.  However, there is a time lapse between getting infected and making the antibodies and if puppies are involved, they will be affected by the virus BEFORE any antibodies have had enough time to get made.  So it has zip to do with how well the dog's immune system functions...

Many people whose bitches just don't get pregnant (seemingly), have actually gotten pregnant and then absorbed the litter due to CHV.  You can all think you've never been affected by it, but if you've ever had a bitch miss, you very likely may well have....

And whilst of course the vast majority of the time, everything will be fine without the vaccine, you only have to read the accounts - heart-breaking accounts - of people losing entire litters in the first few weeks, to see why it is a no-brainer to give this vaccine.  Who cares if it 'only' happens once in 20 litters or 30 litters, or whatever - once is more than enough.

As someone who is currently trying to save a litter (what remains of it) affected by CHV I can only urge you all to get the vaccine (when available) because it does happen and it’s heartbreaking.

> So it has nothing to do with AIs in the US...

I wasn't sure what the question ("don't you think that the prevalence of ai matings in the US has an impact on the incidence of canine herpes/fading puppy syndrome? ") actually meant.   AIs making CHV more, or less common?     I would just say that we only had one miss (ok a couple of small litters for my breed) and that dog was subsequently found to be sterile.  Coming up from America, I don't think he ever got a bitch in whelp, when in Canada, disappointingly.  She went on to produce from a young dog we imported from the UK into Canada.

This is, of course, a heartbreaking thing to have to live with.   Not the least being the mewling noise an affected puppy will make.

You misunderstand me--I was asking whether the incidence of CHV may be reduced through less contact (e.g. AI v natural matings) and whether proportionally fewer litters are lost. It wasn't a slight against US breeders or their practices--simply a recognition that AI matings are less common here in the UK than in the US.

I agree with you--I notify my vet when planning a litter to ensure he keeps a stock of vaccine for us, so last year when a similar shortage occurred we were covered--I would never take the risk of a mating without vaccinating my bitches and would rather delay to her next season if it came to a choice.

At the moment, there is no forecast date when the vaccine will be available again - so you could be delaying a year or more if you don't want to mate without it...

The most common transmission of CHV isn't via mating, it requires far less physical contact with another dog than that - so Ai or natural matings would have zero impact on how common it is.

I'm not and never will be a breeder but have read hundreds of posts about this and question:

Whether it has to be given each mating?

Have there been any incidences of contracting it if both dog and bitch have had the vaccine before - most vaccines last a lifetime?

Whether there is a specific problem with the product that it's rarely available : is it safe or necessary?

>Whether it has to be given each mating?

Yes, immunity to CHV is short-lived.  The antibodies don't circulate in the bitch's bloodstream all the time. 

>Have there been any incidences of contracting it if both dog and bitch have had the vaccine before - most vaccines last a lifetime?

Many vaccines do not last a life time.  Lepto and parainfluenza being two of them, for starters.  Of course there have been incidences of dogs contracting it if they have had the vaccine before - the vaccine manufacturers had to test all that to get the vaccine approved and there are comprehensive trials experimenting with the timing of the two rounds of shots.

>is it safe or necessary?

It's necessary if you want to prevent CHV and remove the risk of losing an entire litter from it.  If you're not a breeder, you may not be able to fully appreciate what is involved in losing an entire litter of neonatal puppies...

It's safe in that I've never heard of a dog having any reaction to it, there were no serious reactions in the trials, and the majority of breeders on CDs use it.  I do not vaccinate my own dogs after puppy vaccinations and I do not give lepto vaccines, but I would never skip the CHV vaccine when breeding.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer 1234 
I'd forgotten about how short a time lepto vaccines last as I don't use them.

Has anyone heard any more about the Eurican herpes 205 availability yet??

Got a breeding planned in February and I guess we are going to have to go without this time. 

Again, re Lepto boosters, neither of my current two hounds are getting their boosters any longer as by around 7 years, I have always stopped.  One is 10 and the other 9 now.   However, having seen rats arouind here last Winter, I took both in for Lepto vaccination.   I may well repeat if I see them around this Winter.   It's not worth the risk if I don't do this, I feel.

I'm more interested in whether anyone has heard anything about the Eurican herpes?  I guess not.

We have been talking with the supplier Boehringer Ingelheim, and last time my husband spoke with them (Tuesday this week) they still had no idea when they were getting any in. They get it in from the manufacturer and have not been given a date yet.

sorry its not better news.

Darn, thanks.  What is this all about/what is the cause?!

I am trying to see if my vet either has some spare doses hanging around or can get some in from other vet practices or contacts... but it's unlikely.

Its a manufacturer issue. No one can get it anywhere in Europe as its not being made for whatever reason. Guess its call around far and wide but they have a limited shelf life so don't know how long if they have it now whether when you need it it's safe to use

I called my vet and they don't have any and don't know of a way to get any either.

I guess we just do it the ole fashioned way without it... I will be totally paranoid about contact with other dogs and places of urination etc etc....

Yup it is really scary, I wipe her muzzle, paws and belly (and bits and pieces!) after every walk and hope that will help, I won't let her sniff anything which she is not very pleased about!

The suppliers were pleasant enough but if they do know why it is not available they are not saying, all we can hope is that it comes in stock soon. It has been out since August at least, hopefully it will get sorted soon.

Good luck

Can you boost her immune system naturally ?

I looked into some Homeopathic Nodules but I am not sure whether I believe in that (well actually I don't believe but wait to be persuaded) other than that I am not sure. From looking into it I have read that once your bitch has been infected with CHV then as long as she isn't having an active episode then the pups should not be infected. Again am I sure I believe that, hmm don't know. 

It is certainly the case that CHV is pretty common (60 - 70% depending on the figures) in the general dog population, it is quite a fragile virus and is easily destroyed - disinfectant should kill it. I am hoping that the cold weather will help reduce how long stays on things but who knows.

Just to ask what is the incidence of what the Herpes jab is supposed to prevent?   And then how in the world did breeders manage before having this jab available??   Fact is, as already said, we have never resorted to using this, and we NEVER experienced fading puppies, if this is what the main concern is?

Make sure you use a stud dog from a reputable owner and observe normal hygiene - surely that should elminimate anything other than the really unlucky breeder.   We wiped our nursing bitches over, feet and teats, and ear ends, before they went back into their litters - and they only went outside to empty whilst still nursing.   The rest were restricted in where we exercised them - and we did live in areas with little other dogs (or people) around.   And we washed hands lots, and removed outside shoes too.

Why is this unavailable now - has something been discovered that has meant it had to be withdrawn??

And yes, we could do with some good hard frosts to kill off the many bugs out there.

Not noscodes but Echinacea angustifolia a known improver of immune systems which encourages the bodies own defences to defeat the virus

I know this won't help with the vaccine but some interesting info ( date 2018 ) on understanding the difficulties with the virus  https://www.2ndchance.info/herpesvirusdog.htm

The Herpes Jab is not to protect the bitch but the unborn and newly born puppies - the study below shows the research done on the vaccine (I do not condone the study I am placing it here to show the research - actually I was shocked at it but that is perhaps my naiveity.)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11915841_Protection_of_puppies_against_canine_herpesvirus_by_vaccination_of_the_dams

before the jab was available (and still in the US and other places where it is not supplied) a bitch that had a fading litter could go on to have a healthy litter as long as there wasn't a current active viral episode happening in the bitch during pregnancy and birth. The death suffered by the infants is extremely distressing with internal bleeding to the major organs.

If I can avoid it I will try, of course good hygiene helps but a bitch that already carries the virus will be at risk and as we normally can not tell if they have the infection unless you have seen the sores on their genitals. Just like cold sores in humans that can be triggered by stress, the act of breeding the bitch can trigger an outbreak.

As for the unavailability, it happens regularly, I suspect as it is not a vaccine that is used widely they simply get it wrong and don't produce enough, depending upon how the vaccine is produced it can take a long time to get another batch ready.

Bring on the frost!!!!

Thanks Tommee,

I shall have a look into that - I know that people swear by Echinacea angustifolia in humans for getting rid of colds.

>Not noscodes but Echinacea angustifolia a known improver of immune systems which encourages the bodies own defences to defeat the virus

I wouldn't want to give something during pregnancy unless it has been tested to be safe.  Echinacea is a powerful herbal med which affects the immune system.  Pregnancy also acts on the immune system.  I would not want to jeopardise the pregnancy using meds untested...

MamaBas, it is Russian roulette.  The bitch needs to contract the virus at very specific times for it to affect the puppies.  The vast majority of the time everything would be fine without the vaccination anyway.  But when it's not fine and the bitch gets it, the situation is such a disaster that IMO it's not worth risking for the sake of a couple of jabs. 

In addition, whilst people say they've never been affected by herpes, they don't realise that matings which appear not to 'take' are often the result of herpes - the bitch absorbs the litter before anyone knew she was pregnant.  CHV causes this.  So chances are, many more people have been affected than is realised.

It’s murder trying to source a couple of doses, tried everywhere last week but couldn’t get it. Bitch finished her season and has gone unmated. Fingers crossed I can get it for next time.

I am waiting for a bitch to come into season in a couple weeks and I don't think the jab is around yet.  I live in quite a dog-dense area and it's going to be impossible to avoid places other dogs have been, so I'm really just going to have to keep everything crossed :(

It has been that way for me for the last 5 years or more.

Mine all walk with my friends clients dogs too.  Hopefully my girl is 4 1/2 weeks in whelp.