Hi All
what is the correct age to have hips tested is there a correct age to get the best result. I know you can only have hips done once, but say if you had them done at two then again at five would/could the results be different.
I am asking really out of curiosity and just widening my knowledge. Don't really know much about health tests so i am just gaining info really.
Do different breeds get tested at different ages? Is it only really the bigger dog that do have hip tests or is it desirable for all breeds to be tested?

Alison:)

I am not sure of the best age to have hips done but they have to be over a year old but I would imagine it would be best to wait until the have finished growing/matureing so the bones have hardened. But if you decided to get a older dog done i would imagine the score will be higher as there would be more wear and tear on the joints. I am no expert but that is what common sense would tell me.

Tracy

A dog has to be at leat 12 months old, but the most relaible results are achieved once the dog has fully grown, which can be later.

Hips scores do get worse with age, but a dog with good hips at two will only get a point or two more as it ages, wheras one with a moderately high score when young, once over four would tend to score higher.

One of my breeding was recently scored at almost 4 years old and had a score of 8 (his Mum is 9 and sire 10), and his sister in Australia who was scored at a year old (they use the same scoring scheme) had almost an identical score with just one point lower in one feature, scoring a total of 7!

HI
Just read on other thread about having the hips done at same time if they are going under for something else.
Well kylie is going under next week for eye op but surgeon wont do hips at same time, now as i'm not going to breed kylie they wern't really important but I was just curious and thought well she's got to go under anyway why not? now kylie is four so knew they probably wouldn't be true readings as they might have been better if done at a younger age. I really just wanted to know what they are so to get an idea at what they could've been( if done at a younger age). Out of all the breeders I have spoke to there is only one that has mentioned getting hips and poss elbows done as, as of yet there is no true breed average. But obviously if nobody tests then we will never know a true breed average.

Can anyone point me to a site that tells you breed averages or is this info not available on the net?

Alison

Alison,

Have a look Here Its is the BVA's website and on there is a link to a spreadsheet of mean scores for all tested breeds.

HTH

Tracy

Thanks tracy

Alison:)

Wow there is only twenty four dogs ever been tested as at 10/10/01
Average is twenty five so now i really want to know what she would be. So now when i do eventually get that longed for pup i'm going find it difficult to get one with hip scored parents or at least that what it seems with these figures

Alison

Bob , I would question why the vet won't do the hip and elbow x-rays while she is out, before tyhe eye procedure, as I can see no valid reason for this, except that they will charge you more for a second GA, and I think there is quite a mark up on the actual chemicl used!

With so few examples of the breed hip scored I would want to have her tested! As you can see from my mail the brother done at nearly 4 and the sister done at i year were very similar. It is only when the hips are bad that there will be large differences in the older scores, as bad hips will have more changes due to wear and tear than a basically good set!

Hi Bob, just to say I agree with B/less. Can`t see any reason for not doing the xray`s before the op. Perhaps a nice gentle but persistent word with the vet as to his reasons for not doing it? Good luck
Christine, Spain

Hi you two thanks for your replies
trouble is it's not my vet doing the op we are having eye specialist, but is it right they don't have to go under for xray read on other thread about sedation.
How much does the bva cost then for the whole thing, do i pay vet for xray then bva for the hips checking or vet for both?
Haven't got a clue so can someone inform me please:)

Alison
Will speak to vet again though to see if this can be arranged with persistence though like christine said

Hi Bob
Yes you can get hips done under sedation, some say that because the dog is not under GA the muscles don't relax and the score could be more than normal, but to be honest, there's aload of us that have ours done under sedation and the dogs walk out of the surgery and we've all had good results so thats what I will continue to do :)..costs about £90 all in with the BVA charge....

Tracey

Thanks tracy
I will more than likely have her tested. where can i find a more upto date list of averages or is this theonly one got it off bva site from link provided
I would like to email you but your addy is hidden would you mail me please

Alison:)

I just wonder if the vet is reluctant to perform eye op and xray as it would mean a longer anaesthetized time which could affect your dog. Usually they only want to anaethetize for the minimal time to allow for whatever procedure they are doing. I would ask your vet the reason. I am having mine done (the dogs that is) using sedation only.
Lorna

Hi lorna
Speaking to vet tomorrow so will find out why but your answer does sound probable, Going to ask about sedation while i'm there.

Alison

hi Bob
I hope you dont mind me asking but what eye op is your dog having, and what breed is she?
If it is a hereditary problem it would be irresponsible to breed from your girl even if she has an excellent score.

Jessie

Jessie
Bob says earlier that she s not breeding but doing agility :)
Tracey
edited : actually i got mixed up :D This dog is not doing agility but isn';t go to bred from:) :) :) :)

Hi tracy i think you've got me mixed up with the other hip thread it is tjd doing agility:)
Alison

Hi BOB
SORRY :D i did ...but knew you weren't breeding and that was the point i was trying to make :)
tRACEY

Dear Jessie
I am 1: not an irresponsible dog owner and
2 not going to breed regardless of the score
and 3 please read the thread
Alison
Oh and 4 she has cherry eye and is a neapolitan mastiff
please read fourth post from top hope this clarify's thing's:)

Hiya.

I was told to have my dogs hips x-rayed at 12 months and 1 day.

Just thought i'd let you all know.

Tracey....My vet won't do the x-rays under sedation and that really annoys me, I hate the dogs having to have anaesthetics for such a small thing. Think I may have to find a new vet.

Take care all

Lisa

Hi lisa I'm rather hoping my vet is not going to say the same as your's. Like you say it's bad they have to have anaesthetics for such minor things

Alison

Hi Alison..

I hope your vet isn't like mine!!

Let us know what he/she says.

Lisa

lisa safftash
Yes think a new vet would be better, stupid saying he wont do it under sedation...what reason did he give ???

Tracey

Hiya Tracey,

My vet just said that hip scores are never as good when done under sedation, and he refuses to do it. (wonder if it's anything to do with cost???)
Anyway, I've made up my mind I'm going to look for a vet who will do it.
No more anaesthetics for these dogs!!

Take care

Lisa

Lisa
If your vet has made you aware that the score could be higher , then surely it's up to you which way about it you go...The vet I use for hip scoring is in Chesterfield, he does a lot of Gsds and Rotties and all under sedation..if all our dogs hips were coming out high then we wouldn't do it, and if 5/6 6/7 4/4 etc is higher than it should be because they were sedated and not under GA then I'm well pleased...:D
Tracey

Hiya Tracey,

I agree with you totally, I'm going to phone around and try and find a vet who will do it.

By the way, I'd be really chuffed with those scores too :)

Wouldn't it be interesting to know if there would have been a difference if your dogs were done under GA.

I got Demi's scores back a week or so ago, she got 4/3 so I'm really pleased with that, still waiting for our boys though.
He's an English type (the bitch is german) do you think that will make his scores a lot higher?

Hope you and the dogs are all well :)

Lisa

Hi Lisa
Having two different types won't make any difference to the scores, as long as there's good scores throughout the pedigree you should be ok.....but then it's not a science so who knows..we can only do our bit :D :D :D
3/4 for your girl is brill :) :) :) :)
I'll keep fingers crossed for your boy :)
Maybe the scores would come out lower if the dogs were under GA, I don't think it's ever been proved, but I'm happy with what I've got so far, so it suits me. :)
Let us know your boys results :)
Tracey

Hi Tracey,

Thanks...I'm really pleased with my girls scores. She is from a line thats producing very good hips, I wasn't really worried about hers :)
But I am a little worried about the boys, don't know why, all the dogs in his ped have good scores. Suppose I'm just a born worrier!

I'll let you know as soon as I get them back :D

Lisa (chewing her nails down to the knuckles with worry! lol)

I know of a lady in Southampton and a Vet in Hereford that do it under sedation, and are very good with their guess as to what the score will be. Our import just had a score of 3/3 which is less than half the breed average. The vet said at the time that he expected the score to come back in single figures! Cost £73.68 in total, which included the BVA fee.

Brainless
Congrats on the score :D :D
You said that there were two people who scored under sedation..was your import done under sedation or GA ???
Tracey

Under sedation at Arrowfield Vet Grp, Kington Hereford! When I had my Jozi scored at my local vets it cost nearly £150, and that was two years ago.

Thanks foks, we are all pleased with the score. Especially as he was a bit heavy in quarantine, and the last 3 months had a gobby GSD next door, and spent a lot of time bouncing on his hind legs to see over the 3 foot wall! We thought it might have had a detrimental efect on his Hips!

He lives with one of his other owners in Hereford. I am just a bit gutted that my bitch came in season too early to use him, as she was ready a few days before he went for his hip xrays, and I had to choose an alternative dog at the last minute.

congratulations...great score.

Lisa

Hi Brainless,

Congratulations, on the hip scores.

Your vet sounds great.

Tracey....I was wondering if you knew anything about this site, topgsd.de,
I found it earlier and absolutely fell in love with one of the shepherds on there. Kora vom Thaipan.
But it seems there have been some problems with the owner of the site?

If you know anything could you let me know?

Thanks in advance....Lisa

Congrats again brainless!!

Bit late getting back I know, But I had very interesting chat with the vet last night and according to my vet you are all wrong

According to the vet it is against KC rules to have a dog xrayed for hip scoring under sedation as appaerntly it clearly states in the rules, that a dog can not be held whilst xraying ( a dog would have to be held under sedation and not GA) as this has a tendency of improving the result. And according to my vet I will not or SHOULD not find a vet willing to do this. Therefore a sedated dog would give a better result than a dog under GA, anyway he will not do it under sedation as he believes it is against KC rules.

My vet is brill and he loves my dogs but now I don't know if I should be looking for another vet?

Alison
Edited just to add I AM NOT saying your wrong just relaying what my vet said

Posted to bring it to the top!!

I want to know what you all think of what my vet said!!! And does anyone know of a vet in west yorkshire who will do the x-ray under sedation?
Please don't shout at me my vet said it NOT me.

Alison:)

Actually the reason why a dog should not be held whilst being x-rayed is not because it will yield a higher score, rather because it is considered to be dangerous! Back in the days when vets first started to acquire x-ray equipment it was usual for the nurse or assistant to hold an animal whilst the vet stood behind the lead screen operating the equipment. No problem when taking one plate but just think about doing it all day! The poor nurse would find when she got home at night that there was no need to put the light on, she was glowing in the dark! Older people here will possible remember ho we were x-rayed for just about everything in those days as well but procedures were tightened up and we no longer get x-rayed willy-nilly. The BVA also brought out operational procedures and the KC is in fact only insisting that those rules are carried out!

Regards, John

Alison

If you go to the link I posted higher up and have a look at the Procedure Notes. Its says quote "It is NECESSARY to employ General anaesthesia, narcosis or deep sedationto enable only mechanical restraintfor positioning the animal"

I think you may want to print this off and give it to your vet!

Tracy :)

Link for Procedure Notes in .pdf format.

HI TJD

After several more discussions with my vet, he still won't do the x-ray under sedation:( He is still adamant that a dog needs to be manually restrained even under deep sedation ( he just won't budge) I really don't know what to do now. I have showed him the procedure notes, and he still states that the dog must be held under sedation, which is not allowed.

Sorry it's took so long to reply but kylie is having her op done today, so have had a lot on my mind. and also wanted to get final word from vet before i posted in case i changed his mind.

Alison

Malakai if you read this what vet do you use as you live relatively close to me?

Well I know lots of dogs x-rayed, with good results under sedation, without anyone manually restraining them! Also at least 3 Vets/radiologists who will do it this way!

It is a little sad when someone is so set in their ways they can't accpt that there are alternative choices.

Hi
He said himself he hadn't done one for at least two years so obviously not up on the latest.
Alison

BOB
I would definitely get another vet to do the scoring, none of my dogs have ever been manually held while the x rays were taken..that's rubbish.And if he's not done it for 2 years then I would find a vet that does it regularly ( hip scoring that is :D )
When mine have been scored they're out for the count,legs all over the place :)
Tracey

Right been phoning round today about seven vets and only one would do it under sedation but would charge the same as my vet under ga.
So what vets do this I am now prepared to travel reasonable distance to get this done.
One vet even wanted to know her temperament and would not consider any kind of mastiff:( I know I haven't had her long and don't know her personality inside out but she is very friendly so i accused him of tarring them all with the same brush and he hung up. I could easily today given up but i'm not easily put off once set my mind on something.
So if anyone knows of a vet within reasonable travelling distance please please let me know I'm inwest yorkshire.

Kylie is home and well after her op today so fingers crossed everyone the gland stays in place.

Alison

hi
my geography is useless..is chesterfield near you ?? or close enough..don't laugh if its miles away, I said I was useless :D
Glad everything ok..
tRACEY

Hi Tracy i'm not very good with places either, will ask hubby in morning and let you know you if you see post with big grin you know it was miles away:)

Alison
Edited I've just had a quick look at map book and this is a very ROUGH guess it's about fifty mins drive. Sheffield is about 30 mins away. Will still ask hubby in morning as he drives not me. Fingers crossed:)

Hi BOB
oK..Not too far away, I always have to go round islands three times to decide if I should go North or South :D
The vet I use in Chesterfield does many gsds,and rotties etc, they give the sedative take the plates and then you get to look at them,he sends them off and then when the BVA has finished with them, you get to keep them, which most vets won't allow either. I always think it's nice to show people buying pups and then explain about hips etc...and how inportant it is to get them scored before breeding or working.
Anyway once the xrays have been taken , he gives them a wake up jab, if you want, and 5 mins later your'e ready to go.:D
tRACEY

Alison,
I've mailed you
Joan :)

Hi Lisa
i'VE had a look at the site and seems to be a lot of litters on the go ?:(
Thre's obviously been some sort of problem, re the statement she has written concerning her not being a broker and making a living from the pups...not sure, this is first time I've seen it.
Some of the dogs are nice...:D
Tracey
EDITED: yes sorry it was meant for Lisa...:D :D...losing my marbles....

I think you menat to reply to someone else :D

Hi Brainless
I ought to be called brainless :D :D
I've swapped it now...to the right person...ooooops.
Tracey