I have an entire male that does not like other entire males. He’s never been in a fight, just acts very aggressively towards them on lead (I’ve never wanted to test whether he would actually fight!)

I have a litter due, and would dearly love to keep a male. Has anyone ever done the same and it worked out ok? I have been contemplating the suprelorin implant, but I expect that I will not have enough time for that to take effect before deciding on keeping one or not.

I should add, he can also be aggressive/bark at females on lead but is always fine when he gets to sniff them and realise they are female!
I think it is probably a bad idea, but would be interested to know if anyone has had success (or failures!)

Breed dependent I'd say. For my large breed I have had fathers and sons together for a while several times but they have always ended up having to be separated and kennelled as they started fighting aged around 2. Including with neutered male dogs.  For my toybreed I currently have father, son and grandson living together, with six bitches in the group (3 spayed, 3 entire). They do have the occasional fight but never anything serious enough to cause damage; I've not even seen any marks.

Breed dependent first, and then individual.  I would not try it in your situation with a male who has established issues with entire males in general.  Not only would he be living with one for a time, but that other one would be going through adolescence at some point too which magnifies any potential issues as the hormones flow.

> I have been contemplating the suprelorin implant, but I expect that I will not have enough time for that to take effect before deciding on keeping one or not.

I have used Suprelorin with both my same-breed males (not at the same time).  In my (albeit limited) experience, it takes 6-8 weeks to take effect, and there is, or can be, a testosterone surge at the beginning of that time. With one dog, the testicles shrank to almost nothing and the effect was what I wanted. It lasted for almost exactly 9 months, after which he was completely back to normal.  With the other dog (implant done in May this year), there was only a mild testosterone surge (judging by behaviour), and his testicles never reduced to less than pre-pubertal size.  The behavioural change I was looking for has not really occurred*.

> I have an entire male that does not like other entire males. He’s never been in a fight, just acts very aggressively towards them on lead (I’ve never wanted to test whether he would actually fight!)

Is his behaviour driven by testosterone, or is there some other cause such as fear, pain, or a breed-characteristic?

*Behavioural training with this dog is continuing.

We have kept more than one male, entire (until I had two oldies who developed prostate problems and had to be castrated), with entire bitches (until they were retired and spayed) and only had one who, by around 1.5 years, started challenging his uncle, resulting in some really increasingly nasty fighting.  Always him starting them and despite all my best efforts to get him to settle down, in the end I had to home him - peace returned to my small pack!   Mine is a breed that normally gets along however (so yes, breed specific would apply).   I'd never try this with terriers, for example!

We started off (buy ins) with 2 males, 10 months approx. in age difference and for the most part they got along.   Not so much after we bought in our foundation bitch but their spats were not serious enough to draw blood and with care, I managed to keep any fighting that might have broken out between males over the years (apart from the one, above) to a minimum.

There are no guarantees that any two males (or two bitches for that matter) will live together in peace, but ideally, to avoid any risk I think you should think about keeping a bitch, just in case!   Males fight to mate - bitches to survive.

Chemical castration might show you whether a full normal castration, would work if you do have trouble between two males.

I have a boy who likes to bully other dogs if he gets the chance but he is great with any boys we bring in as pups and he lets them away with murder. We don't have any bitches though to cause any further issues.

Thank you for the replies.

He is a gundog breed and so usually quite sociable and tolerant.
I am quite sure his behaviour is driven by testosterone rather than fear based etc.

It’s such a big risk, probably sensible that I don’t risk it, however, I will give it some careful thought.

> I am quite sure his behaviour is driven by testosterone rather than fear based etc.<br />

I'd also suggest that with some dogs, attack is often seen as the best option - the best form of defence!! 

A lot of 'getting along' would depend on how well they look to YOU as their leader.

I'd say try the superlorin, you have nothing to lose. I used it on my male who really had a problem with young pups, males and older boys all uncastrated. he would go for attack. this came on gradually though from the age of around 4 1/2 to 5. But my breed is slow maturing so not sure if this is why.
I was convinced it was testosterone driven and so went for superlorin. yes there is a surge around 4 weeks but we just kept him on a lead until around 6 weeks which is when it began to take effect. It worked for us really well and now he's on his second which the 6 months is up at the end of November but I'm having him castrated end of next week so don't need to worry anymore.

My opinion is that you would be silly to keep a male. Which one would you rehome or keep caged up in a kennel if it came to it? Not worth the chance.

Hi Im after some help with Locating a Vets that can help me with the Superlorin Male Implant for my currently un-neutured Dog. Im in the Manchester area and a few of my Vets 4 Pets branches around my area do not stock it and are unable to help... Id be grateful if anyone could help...

Hi there. We have been recommended the implant by our vets rather than permanent Castration to establish whether his aggression towards un-neutured male dogs is behavioral or not. Im however struggling to find a vets that do it... Im in the Manchester area ... are you able to help...?

If your
vet has suggested it can't they access it or tell u who in your area uses it ? Otherwise I guess it's Google and ring round

Unfortunately they can only purchase it in bulk and as its not something there is demand for they are unable to help as it would be sat on the shelf expiring...
Ive tried Google and it just comes up with lots of forums...

Can they give you a written prescription that you can get online then get them to do it? its like having the microchip put in. My dog never made a sound.

The vets are lying it can be purchased in packs of 2

I just checked Viovet 's prices for this - Suprelorin for dogs ... 4.7 mg X 2 (note) = £129.49
                                                                                          9.4 mg X 2          =  £257.99

I realise using this to see if he improves re aggression towards other males might be worth doing, but those prices would suggest it's going to make more sense to just castrate and be done with it.

> those prices would suggest it's going to make more sense to just castrate and be done with it.

A bit of a gamble - if suprelorin makes the aggression worse (by reducing testosterone) it can be removed, or you wait till it wears off. With surgical castration you've burnt your bridges and have nowhere to go.

Why do people assume that because Suprelorin is around the price of a castration that it's better to just castrate ?? What if castration mskes the behaviour worse ? You can't just reverse the operation can you, or maybe they believe it will cure all ?

My vet will NOT castrate for behavioural problems, without using Suprelorin first & if it changes the behaviour for the good, he castrates at a reduced price whilst the implant is still effective

> I realise using this to see if he improves re aggression towards other males might be worth doing, but those prices would suggest it's going to make more sense to just castrate and be done with it.

But if his aggression is fear based it may make him worse permanently.

I meant a list of vets u haven't spoken to yet in your area there are loads in Manchester and surrounding areas.if as people suggested ask for prescription and buy online vet can administer. I do agree with the others about not castrating it's kind of a one way street and shouldntbe decide based on cost.

Thanks for your replies... Im going to ring vets in my area to see and then if not then try get it online and ask my vets to do... My vets have advised against perm castration until we establish if it is behavioral or not as Castration could make it worse and limit our options to remedy...

Best thing is to call around all your local vets to see if they have it or will get it in and the cost.

Some vets don't routinely stock it and others do but they can order it in. Not sure if its changed but i was the first one at the practice many years ago to get it ordered in and it was packs of 2.

I tried it on 2 dogs for different reasons. It made a big difference to one and made no difference to the other.
You can get a 6 month one and a 12 month one.

Just to clarify, as it's unusual for me to suggest castration at all,  I ONLY did because I noted the prices of that chemical castration.   Male aggression may, of course, be because the boy is adopting an attack is the best form of defence attitude - fear.    However I'd have expected castration, which affects the testosterone, would usually lessen aggression.   I suppose getting the dog chemically castrated would be a kind-of 'try before you buy'.  

I usually only suggest castration for medical reasons and at the end of the day, you may find your male is different with a puppy who is born with you in any case.  Much as I had a situation with a male I kept, who started fighting with his uncle when he reached around 1.5 years.   So again, what starts off ok with your situation, may deteriorate.   So I'd wait and see how this pans out, if you do decide to keep a male and perhaps go for a puppy who seems less dominant?

I do wish people who reply to posts would read the post they are replying to & who is posting it. Otherwise it can become very

>Male aggression may, of course, be because the boy is adopting an attack is the best form of defence attitude - fear.    However I'd have expected castration, which affects the testosterone, would usually lessen aggression.

On the contrary, if aggression is caused by fear then reducing the testosterone levels (confidence comes from testosterone) will increase the fearfulness and reactivity.

> On the contrary, if aggression is caused by fear then reducing the testosterone levels (confidence comes from testosterone) will increase the fearfulness and reactivity.

OK   I suppose my view of all this stems from the fact I've never had a dog who was fearful and so 'aggressive'.   The one who started attacking his uncle certainly showed NO sign of being fearful - quite the opposite.  

So again I'd tend to 'suck it and see' in terms of keeping a male puppy !!

I have a fear aggressive dog who has the I had better get in here first mentality with big dogs and has days when he is quite nervous and thinks the sky is going to fall in.    He is a very good example of where castration would be a big mistake as losing testosterone would remove confidence that he does have and make him even more fearful.   You can tell if fear aggressive, after an event, my dog would shut down for a few seconds with the stress of what just happened...  Needless to say, training training training is our constant friend in the hope that one day, if I have to have him castrated for medical reasons he will cope with it, oh and to have more pleasant, peaceful walking sessions.

> OK   I suppose my view of all this stems from the fact I've never had a dog who was fearful and so 'aggressive'.   The one who started attacking his uncle certainly showed NO sign of being fearful - quite the opposite.  

Understandable then, that is a very different situation!

hi can somebody answer my queries about my dog aggression? because for the past days my dog become aggressive after mating happens. i really don't know what to do.

I think you need to give more details about what has happened & what is currently now happening

And perhaps better to start a new thread

It might be best to post that in the Breeding forum, since it seems specifically related to breeding.

Hey all

I recently came across a dilemma ... We have a lovely 5 year old jack X chihaha and 2 years ago we had our female akita kaida. These two have always got alot and our jack has been neutered . Last year we had our male akita ank. Again all 3 dogs have always got alot so well. Our male akita has also been neutered. Over a week ago we noticed our female was in heat. Naturally we tried to keep them separated however one day the male managed to get to the female. Since then the male has started showing aggression towards the jack russell. We are having to keep the jack away from ank cause he only has to smell him and he starts growling. Does anyone have any advice as ank is my mum's dog and since his aggression has started she has considered rehoming him to a rescue cause she thinks he will keep attacking. Any advice will be appreciated

Is the bitch still in heat?  I would really wait until her heat is totally over and see how things are then, keeping the boys separated for now.  It's understandable if there is an element of competition between the two males with an in-season bitch in the house...

Agree, even though they are neutered the presence of the in season bitch will still bring out the competitive side to males.

Neutered males as you have found will also mate under extreme  of a bitch at her peak receptiveness.