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Topic Dog Boards / General / Coat Colour Linked To Early Death
- By Admin (Administrator) Date 22.10.18 09:45 UTC
A DOG'S life expectancy and risk of developing serious illnesses has been linked to the colour of their coats.

Stunning new Australian research has probed the health outcomes for Labradors, one of the world's most popular canine breeds. It found that chocolate labs live significantly shorter lives than their black and yellow cousins, much to the surprise of those leading the study.  The University of Sydney team analysed 33,000 veterinary patient records from the United Kingdom, comprising Labradors of all colours, and also found chocolate dogs had higher incidences of eat and skin problems.

The average age of non-chocolate labs was 12.1 years, more than 10 per cent longer than chocolate ones at 10.7 years, the University of Sydney research found.

Paul McGreevey, who led the study, said the prevalence of ear inflammation was also twice as high in chocolate Labradors, who were four times more likely to suffer a kind of dermatitis. "The relationships between coat colour and disease may reflect an inadvertent consequence of breeding certain pigmentations," Professor McGreevey said.  "Because chocolate colour is recessive in dogs, the gene for this colour must be present in both parents for their puppies to be chocolate. Breeders targeting this colour may therefore be more likely to breed only Labradors carrying the chocolate coat gene."


Full article HERE
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 22.10.18 10:33 UTC Edited 22.10.18 10:38 UTC Upvotes 1
Mmm - interesting.  I don't know if the same situation arose outside the UK, but I hesitate to suggest that suddenly chocolate Labs became all the rage within the yuppy set, meaning BYBs latched onto this and started producing this colour to excess.   My nephew and his then family bought one and by the time he was a year old (before) he'd had both hips and one elbow operated on.   Not that I don't think the vet saw £££ signs - he was insured.   But the dog was never sound, and didn't live into a good old age.   So sad as there were 2 small children involved in all the heartbreak.   He'd asked me re breeders but before I could get back to him, the same day!, when I did he was with this breeder and had bought Bosley.

BTW, I hate the overuse of the word stunning.    In this case, worrying would have been a more relevant word to us.

I would add that I really don't like the expression (and eye colour) on the choc.Lab shown in that article.
- By Tommee Date 22.10.18 10:47 UTC Upvotes 4
Far more likely than genetics is the poor quality of the dogs. Friend of mine has the occasion chocolate born into their litters of black & yellow labs from fully health tested parents. They are quite dark brown in colour & this has occurred in their line of dogs for over 40 years. Their dogs are dual purpose & nearly all long lived well into their teens. Wonder if the study included bloodlines & comparison between siblings, parents etc I very much doubt it.
- By Lacy Date 22.10.18 11:17 UTC
Read somewhere (probably inaccurate) that early on brown/liver was not really considered an acceptable colour, it was only when the name changed to 'chocolate' that there popularity soared.
- By furriefriends Date 22.10.18 12:10 UTC
https://pets.thenest.com/history-chocolate-labradors-7355.html long but interesting
- By Jodi Date 22.10.18 13:32 UTC
Interesting comment Lacy. Some friends have been breeding showing and judging labs for about 50 years (recently retired) and they disliked the chocolate labs intently and made sure that it didn’t get into their lines -easier now with dna. They were quite horrified by the thought of finding a choccie pup in one of their litters
- By furriefriends Date 22.10.18 13:41 UTC
You are quite right lacy. Towards the bottom of this article it refers to chocs originally being called liver and then someone decide to use the term chocolate. The colour suddenly became very popular with the publichttps://www.thefield.co.uk/gundogs/best-labrador-colour-31845
- By Nikita [gb] Date 22.10.18 15:10 UTC Upvotes 2
I can well believe it could be down to popularity.  That trend is well known - colour or breed becomes popular, greeders latch on and quality plummets.  Medical issues set in through indiscriminate overbreeding, and lifespan could easily be affected depending on what issues crop up.
- By JeanSW Date 22.10.18 16:15 UTC Upvotes 2

> I don't know if the same situation arose outside the UK, but I hesitate to suggest that suddenly chocolate Labs became all the rage within the yuppy set, meaning BYBs latched onto this and started producing this colour to excess.


Just about sums it up for me.
- By Tommee Date 22.10.18 19:38 UTC Upvotes 1
Chocolate Labradors are not new they have been around for over 120 years(going back to Buccelch Avon born in 1885
- By Jodi Date 23.10.18 08:21 UTC
As said they were called liver because they were a very dark brown, not far off black. I met someone with two recently, really nice looking dogs and very very dark brown. They looked more like working bred dogs and I did really like them.
Chocolate labs mostly seen today are a much lighter brown and to my mind look different from the original liver coloured dogs of earlier years. I don’t really care for the lighter brown look and it is a coat that seems to fade as the dog ages
- By furriefriends Date 23.10.18 09:54 UTC
Mainly us but the light brown is now being bred even lighter as all vets. The flat coat retreiver ,curly and i think chesapeake are all called liver not chocolate .so habe remained as the original name
- By Lacy Date 23.10.18 11:31 UTC Upvotes 3

> Chocolate Labradors are not new they have been around for over 120 years(going back to Buccelch Avon born in 1885


Aware of this, & my post was not meant to infer that they hadn't been in existence. Just that earlier on it was not perhaps an accepted colour within the breed or that popular, but when the name change to Chocolate their numbers dramatically increased. Probably around the time that breeds moved away from 'working' to pet ownership, & from memory (very trivial) Cadburys chocolate was constantly being advertised on T.V by Frank Muir.
- By Tommee Date 23.10.18 11:44 UTC Upvotes 2
It has always been an accepted colour, but responsible breeders don't breed simply for colour & as long as the dog is sound on mind & body the early breeders didn't bother about colour as long as it was black, yellow or brown. As far back as 1885 the colour was accetable as the dog I mentioned was a popular sire for his type not his colour

Sadly breeders for colour focus only only on that just like the white(cream), blue, liver etc GSD breeders they use the"rarity"as a salespitch & price hiker. There are breeders of non standard colour GSDs that charge more for non standard colours & less for their standard colour siblings & the fallible public pay it !!
- By Tommee Date 23.10.18 11:51 UTC
Chesapeakes have 8 acceptable colours no liver though :wink:
- By RozzieRetriever Date 23.10.18 12:18 UTC
Ok, so where does the Red Fox labrador colour come from as they seem to be the ‘next big thing’ round here?
- By furriefriends Date 23.10.18 12:52 UTC
wow didn't know that . The only ones Ive seen are liver or black
- By furriefriends Date 23.10.18 12:54 UTC
""sadly breeders for colour focus only only on that just like the white(cream), blue, liver etc GSD breeders they use the"rarity"as a salespitch & price hiker. There are breeders of non standard colour GSDs that charge more for non standard colours & less for their standard colour siblings & the fallible public pay it !! ""

oh fgs ! I get cross enough with different show and pet in the same litter.

Rather taken by the white swiss shepherd I met as discover dogs though
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 23.10.18 18:51 UTC Upvotes 3

>Ok, so where does the Red Fox labrador colour come from as they seem to be the ‘next big thing’ round here?


Fox red is a shade of yellow, and was traditionally favoured by working breeders over the recently-popular very pale yellow (just like 'proper' golden Golden Retrievers).
- By RozzieRetriever Date 24.10.18 08:30 UTC
Thank you, that makes sense. Just another fancy name for an existing colour then.
- By Goldenfrenzy [gb] Date 24.10.18 09:01 UTC Edited 24.10.18 09:08 UTC
My old "Fox Red " lab was most definately not yellow!  She was a lovely dark apricot  almost copper colour.Just to add she wasnt bought because of her colour, I had her long before the current fad.I lost count of the number of times someone said "what a lovely colour she is".
- By Brainless [gb] Date 25.10.18 08:02 UTC Upvotes 2

> so where does the Red Fox labrador colour come from


It's just a dark yellow, the colour ranges from very pale to fox red depending on the amount of pigment and how far the darker pigment goes down the hair shaft..
- By Brainless [gb] Date 25.10.18 08:04 UTC Upvotes 5

> My old "Fox Red " lab was most definately not yellow!


Genetically yes, yellow, just the darker end of the spectrum.
- By JoStockbridge [gb] Date 26.10.18 17:20 UTC Upvotes 3

> My old "Fox Red " lab was most definately not yellow!  She was a lovely dark apricot


Fox red and yellow in labs are the same thing just different shades, both caused by the recessive red gene e, but recessive red can come in a variety of shades from a deep red, dark gold, light gold, yellow, cream or even whitish depending on how intensive the colour is.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 26.10.18 17:56 UTC Upvotes 1

>My old "Fox Red " lab was most definately not yellow!  She was a lovely dark apricot  almost copper colour.


Genetically she was identical to a pale yellow lab. Just as you get some very pale, wishy-washy chocolate labs and some with a glorious rich dark brown.
- By onetwothreefour Date 27.10.18 11:36 UTC Upvotes 1
Fox red labs are not exactly genetically identical to pale yellow labs - since after all, something has to be turning them fox red at birth - or pale yellow! 

https://www.thelabradorsite.com/fox-red-labrador/

"But how does a basically yellow Lab get a gorgeous red coat?

A red Lab is a variation of yellow, and every red dog has those essential little e genes that switch off black and brown. But then it starts to get a little bit more complicated.

Hang on in there, we’ll try and simplify it a little.

It centers on a pigment called pheomelanin.

This pigment is responsible for the depth of red coloring in the yellow lab’s coat. And it is controlled by two different sets of genes.

The A gene controls the production of the red color. And the C gene controls whether or not it is fully expressed or diluted.

This is what makes things a little more complicated

It’s because there are two different pairs of genes interacting together in this way that we get such a range of different shades, from pale yellow to rich fox red.

It isn’t just a question of switching the red color on or off.

In fact, I am still over-simplifying it a bit.

There are other genes involved in coat color, some of which affect the labrador. Genes for example that control areas of darker shading which can cause that ‘saddle’ pattern on some yellow dogs.

But let’s not go there today!

Remember, you’ll be able to see the effects of the interaction of these more complex genes involved in producing our lovely fox red labs, only if the ee genes are present as a pair.

Otherwise the B gene will over-ride them. And you are back to black or brown."

So:  Fox red labs are not just identical to yellow labs - they only are on the e/E locus.  There are then further genes responsible for the shade of yellow.  And yes, on KC paperwork, fox red is yellow too....
- By JoStockbridge [gb] Date 27.10.18 19:06 UTC Upvotes 2
Fox red and yellow are both e/e, the gene(s) that control how intensive the shade of the colour have not actually been found/proven last I could find. Some theorize it's controlled by a C locus but no mutations had been found last I read, so some theorize another locus I. But either way they are both recessive red, just one is an intense colour and one is lightened by another gene.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 28.10.18 06:58 UTC

> But either way they are both recessive red, just one is an intense colour and one is lightened by another gene.


There are many modifier genes when it comes to expression of colours and patterns.

My breed are all grey, with harness marking and dark mask and ears, but shades vary greatly (though standard says medium shades preferred, and no dark markings on lower legs), also small amounts of white on extremities, amount of dark mask and darkness of ears for example are caused by modifier genes.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 29.10.18 20:37 UTC
Fox red rarity can make people believe these won't have genetic disorders as they're more natural working dogs bred for fitness and longevity rather than for show beauty - this beauty is including being overweight/obese, heavy set, and very pale yellow/gold and that seems to be the way with show dogs in Labradors and Golden Retrievers.

My ex (& I for a good few years) has had GRs for decades and will now onoy have darker/red working types due to early losses, plus temperament issues with non-working bred GRs
- By G.Rets [gb] Date 01.11.18 21:04 UTC
The paler Golden Retrievers, who are  probably more "show lines" usually have the kindest natures, love everyone and everything. The ones who don't are the exception.  The darker golden ones  (and I LOATHE the term "fox red" ) are usually bred from generations of working stock and, good as they are for the field, often make hyper-active pets, more than the average person wants to live with.  Very few Goldens have "temperament issues" whatever their colour. Only those of faultless temperaments should be bred from.
Please could we banish the term "fox red" Labradors. This pretend exclusivity is commanding unjustifiable high prices for a "yellow" Labrador. Another "designer dog"!
- By kayenine [gb] Date 01.11.18 21:09 UTC Upvotes 3

> Please could we banish the term "fox red" Labradors. This pretend exclusivity is commanding unjustifiable high prices for a "yellow" Labrador. Another "designer dog"!


It's hardly a 'designer dog' when the colour is mentioned in the breed standard.
"Yellows range from light cream to red fox. "
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 01.11.18 22:39 UTC
Only those of faultless temperaments should be bred from.
Totally agree - for any breed! Unfortunately this doesn't happen, at least not globally.
As far as working Goldens not being suitable for pet homes is concerned it seems similar to the reason for the development of the Clumber Spaniel for those who want a slower dog & maybe could be given a different breed name?
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 02.11.18 14:27 UTC Upvotes 2

>The darker golden ones  (and I LOATHE the term "fox red" ) are usually bred from generations of working stock and, good as they are for the field, often make hyper-active pets, more than the average person wants to live with.


Nigel and Nelly (the real stars of Gardeners World!) are certainly not show-bred, are dark gold and so laid-back they're almost horizontal!

>Please could we banish the term "fox red" Labradors. This pretend exclusivity is commanding unjustifiable high prices for a "yellow" Labrador. Another "designer dog"!


'Red fox' is included in the breed standard for labradors, so certainly not 'designer dog'. "The only correct colours are wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox."
- By Jodi Date 02.11.18 16:45 UTC
I keep trying to work out a way of stealing Nigel and Nellie, they are just gorgeous. My dog and I tune in every Friday just to watch them, blow the gardening.

Re show bred/working bred. Nigel looks to my eyes more show bred in his size and shape, although his colour is darker then most in the show ring. I was going to have a puppy from one of the Stomerick dogs. He was a good dark gold and was shown as well as worked. Nellie looks more like a working golden. I believe she came from the Forest of Dean area.
Some working goldens are so dark almost red that I do wonder if an Irish setter is in their ancestry recently.
My golden is dual purpose, working and show lines, and is not a dark gold, just mid gold, built slightly more towards show lines, but not overly. Her brain is more working dog though, probably the cleverest golden Ive had
Topic Dog Boards / General / Coat Colour Linked To Early Death

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