I have a lovely miniature poodle puppy. He was born early January. He is entire with a retained testicle. The one he has is very small.

I know that this age can be challenging but it seems that our previous training has gone out of the window!

I will try to make long story short.

I Consulted dog trainer/behaviouralist about him before as he snapped at me aged 5 months. (Breeder said castrate)  She said we were not being firm enough, and that his aggression Was fear based and not to neuter as he needs testosterone. We followed her advice on lots of things. Things on the whole got a lot better.  We worked at recall. So, although he will still occasionally growl at us if we do something he doesn't like (like grooming or touching certain parts of him) he doesn't try to snap. I have of course seen a vet. There is no physical cause.

His recall has been really good, even when distracted by another dog at a distance he wil, come back. So I let him off lead in the local park, and there are a group of dogs with whom he plays and socialises.

However, two things have happened this week in which he ran away onto the road. The first I don't know why, it could have been a cat or a squirrel and he was out of the park gate and in front of a car. I was lucky.

The second. Yesterday a woman I know brought her bitch onto the park and dog and I walked around with her. Her dog was on the lead and mine was off. The woman said her dog was having a season. My dog was obsessed with the bitch, followed like her shadow and licked at her. As they were leaving he tried to mount her. Obviously I stopped him. I didn't think this was a big deal as he tries to mount every dog, male and female, and he has been humping since day one. (I have read that over sexualised behaviour can be associated with retained testicle.)

After they left I stupidly let him off the lead, as he had not had a run. After a few minutes he picked up the scent and ran off after the bitch. I called, he turned, looked at me and then just carried on. It was just awful. I caught him by opening someone's garden gate and he ran in. This was on a road. Again I was lucky.

Now I know I can't take him off lead on the park as I don't know how long the scent of the bitch will mast. In fact the woman just texted me to say she was there and would I like to join her!

So now he will be on he is on a really long training lead that gets caught up on things, people and dogs and almost garrotted him yesterday. I can only walk him off lead in one certain place now, where it is very open. He needs to be off lead to run around, as I have a minute back yard. But I am so scared this will happen again.

What can I do?

Incidentally, just now, he just snapped again at my son because we were touching him in a place he doesn't like. This can be his legs, his feet when we wipe his feel after he has been out on the park and is coved in mud, or his inner thigh, or today his side. We told him off and put him outside the room. We are gentle when we wipe his feet on a towel, and there is no reason for him to growl. We don't make ain't a scary experience)  I know it sounds like we treat him like a prince.

I need to get this under control before it gets worse and he ends up dead under a car.

Could you offer some guidance please?

BD

I would stop taking him to the park and the woman with a bitch in season is an idiot, she shouldn't be putting her girl in season in a busy park.
Take your boy out to the countryside and work on training on a long line.
Go to classes and work on 121 too.
I personally don't like small parks because people often dont care about behaviour or walking bitches in season and its a great place to see many bad things going on. I avoid them at all costs now
Concentrate on your bond with him and make that as strong as you can.
Re touching, i do wonder if he is sensitive in these areas? How does he cope with being groomed as Poodles do need regular brushing and scissoring to prevent knots forming

Strictly on lead, so he cannot practice ignoring you and so he is safe.  I would also text the woman of the in-season bitch back and tell her to stop walking her bitch in the park.  It is incredibly irresponsible, extremely unfair to everyone else (and to the bitch, who will get hounded and stressed), and you are both extremely lucky that your pup did not mate with the bitch.  He is old enough to father a litter and he is not suitable to do so.

What exactly did the trainer advise you to do?  As what you've written of what she said is completely contradictory (dog is fearful but you need to be firmer - frightened/aggressive dogs need careful, gentle handling, not firmer).  I do agree that he should not be castrated.

I would also go back to the vet and ask for permission to have a McTimoney chiropractor or a physio check pup over.  Vets very often miss physical stuff and there could still be pain going on.  My dogs' chiro has picked up on quite a few things that my vets have missed.  Sometimes a dog is born in pain and it is missed - I have one like it.  The pain and the issue wasn't discovered (and then accidentally, while looking for something else via MRI) until she was 6.  She had always been in pain, and showed it with bullying other dogs, and it all stopped overnight when put on painkillers for the other issue.  I could provide various other examples of dogs young and old, who appear to be being stroppy or difficult, owners not being 'firm enough' etc who have had pain to some degree.

Otherwise though it sounds like he's hitting teenage months, so a bit of selective deafness out on walks (made worse by the bitch), combined with being a nervous pup.  So you need to keep up the training, and look at how you handle him - if he's growling, pay attention.  And start doing some counterconditioning for his reactions to you, if you haven't already; touch = tasty treat.  Go slowly, at his speed.  Substitute touch for a stroke of a brush for grooming.

How have you gone about training his recall so far?

Which breeder did you get your puppy from as I see from your previous posts that you met several whilst looking for a miniature poodle ? How old was he when you got him & was he snappy or mouthy from the outset ? Did you do any training with him to stop the mouthing ? If so what did you do ?

I would definitely get him checked by a Canine McTimoney Chiropractor, they specialise in dogs, not all McTimoney Chiropractors do BTW. I would also consider a T Touch practitioner after seeing the Chiropractor if he persists in objecting to being touched.

Definitely on a long line outside(not a flexilead though) & work on making his recall 100%, you might want to train recall to a whistle, starting by whistling him every time you feed him & also do some clicker training to reshape his behaviours(Google Kikopup on YouTube she's excellent) Karen Pryor has a really useful website with lots of free information on it.

If his second testicle doesn't make an appearance I would have just the retained one removed when he is older.

Sounds to me like he is going through his second period of puberty, hang on there & if he snaps rather than "telling him off"(which he won't understand)you(or whoever he snaps at)walk away & go out of sight. When you go back near him I would do some hands off training clicker training for a couple of minutes.

Just in addition to what others have said, and having just got a Poodle puppy myself - the fact that he doesn't like his feet and other areas touched, could it be that the groomer you use has accidentally hurt him or been too rough? In which case you need to work up slowly to those areas being touched again with plenty of praise and rewards.

Thank you for your replies.

1. Cambria. The bitch had actually been spayed and is having some kind of season after that. I know nothing else but I don't understand how a spayed bitch has a season. As my dog is sexually interested in every dog he meets, irrespective of gender, age, size and neuter/spay, it was not unusual for him to behave as he did, including the desire to lick. Even the mounting. Dogs in his social group tolerate it and eventually have enough and tell him off. But I always ask the owners of bitches if they have been spayed. We once met one whose owners didn't even know was having a season. My dog picked up on it though. Unfortunately I can't stop taking him to the park as it is our nearest outside space. Especially with darker mornings and darker evenings. Weekends and his walk after dinner, we can take him further afield. But during the week during the day it is where he goes for his wees etc.,, as he wont use my back yard. Thank you for the advice about the 1-2-1 training. We have a close bond. He isn't a cuddly dog, but he is my dog, if you know what I mean. He wants to please.

I am looking for training classes in my area and would have done this anyway, as I know this is the stage where boundaries are pushed.

Re grooming. When I got him I kept his coat long and spent a long time grooming, but always gentle. His breeder had groomed him and got him used to being groomed. Now I keep his coat short, as it's far easier to maintain and he looks lovely. But I am not happy with current groomer as I think they might have been a bit rough with him. I am not going back there and have found another groomer. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they had hurt him. However, that is another discussion.

2. Nikita. I have told her what happened. But as I said, she probably didn't think it was an issue as the bitch has been spayed. As I said, I am always careful and there was no chance he could have mated her, so it wasn't luck. The very last think I want is for him to mate any dog. Regards the trainer, I completed a survey of about 100 questions so she got an idea about all kinds of things. At that time when he growled I had read that it shouldn't be corrected, as it is a warning system and if you stop it, the dog will learn not to give a warning. So when he start to growl about various things I tried to work out what was causing the growl, and just ignored the growling and rewarded positive behaviour. Then I got bitten. So I called in the dog trainer.  She said we couldn't allow him to growl about things he didn't like. This included me trying to take things out of his mouth like dog/cat/fox poo, bathing him, moving him off sofas. So it's not all about sensitivity, as you can see. there is no food or toy possessiveness apart from poo or things in his mouth that he can't have like bottle tops etc and poo. She said from his behaviour that he was trying to establish himself as being in charge, so not to let him up on sofas, not to let him sit on the top step, to make him sit and wait for his food, to ignore him when we came in the door and give low level at at riot, etc. But to be honest I read all about this before I got a dog and was doing most of it any way.

Regards nervousness, I take him out to meet other dogs and he has no issue with any dog apart from trying to hump them all eventually, even if they are tiny. But he is wary of strangers, especially men. this is getting worse. He barks a lot, and I know it is fear based. I do try to introduce him to what he is barking at to see it is ok, and at his
pace. I am sensitive, and I do try to socialise him to all kinds of things. I would be very grafeful for advice on how to help him with this please.

Regards the pain, good point. It all started with a dog harness. He walks beautifully on the lead for almost all of the time, but I got one as I read that collars put pressure on the throat and can be damaging. I did research and got what I thought was best. I can remember what it was called, it has long since been consigned to the charity shop. He growled when I put it on, and growled when I tried to adjust it and he snapped me when I removed it.

Sometimes in the mornings when I get him out of his crate he cringes to avoid being touched. Sometimes he doesn't like being touched. I took him to the vet about this and she checked his spine and legs and found nothing. I will look into a chiropractor as suggested.

What do you mean, pay attention if he is growling?

Recall, I take treats. Call him to me often and reward randomly. If he comes back after being with another dog, I make a huge fuss, lots of verbal praise and a treat. This is all off lead in open spaces. He will come back even when the distraction is huge. But I do not see how I will ever be more attractive than a bitch in heat, and I don't know where they are! Is there another way I should be recall training?

3. Tommee. Yes, I did see lots of breeders. I got him from a reputable breeder who shows very successfully and who breeds only for his line. Doesn't breed often, a big name in poodles. Health tested and temperament good in his lines. He was recommended by local kennel club secretary. I don't see how I could have been more careful or selective. I took him when he was 10 weeks old (he was ready at 9 weeks but I couldn't take him as I had booked time off work to be at home to settle him).

There were only 2 boys in the litter and my dog was the bolshier one. He kept the other as he said his temperament was more suitable for show, as he was quieter, but it was a close thing. He was a bit more confident than his brother when we went to see him at 6 weeks. Met the mother.

Was he mouthy when we got him. Oh yes!!!! He had been in my house all of 5 minutes before he humped my arm. And he was mouthy but it was all puppy mouthing. We did what Ian Dunbar recommends. The snapping was quite, quite different. It was a bite with teeth and intent.

Trainer said to use an interrupter (compressed air) if he tried to bite again. I got one but haven't used it. We use a loud 'ah ah!' But we can't always walk away because it might happen when we are giving him a bath, as he doesn't like his legs or his tummy or thighs being touched . I am always gentle and careful when bathing him and also when drying him. I can't not wipe his feet when he come in covered in mud.

I think some of the behaviour is age related, hence the snap today.

Thank you for the advice about whistle training. Do you mean, instead of calling his name I use a whistle?

4. Goldmali. As said, I would not be at all surprised if the groomer was too rough. He never looked happy when he came back. And the young assistant was rude to the customers so what was she like with dogs who can't answer back, much less my little pup? Congratulations on your puppy!

So, in short, what do I do about the risk of him picking up the scent of a bitch in heat. He is UBER interested in sex. Really really.  He is only 8 months old and it is getting more increased. I despair that he is ever going to find me as interesting as the distraction of a bitch in heat, even with training. I am really worried he will take off  aft an invisible (to me) bitch and get run over.

As he has a retained testicle I have always known he will have to have that removed in due course. The remaining tedticle is very small, in fact the groomer asked me if he had been neutered. As I mentioned earlier, I read a piece of research on google scholar that found retained testicle and small remaining testicle result in hyper sexuality due to an over production of testosterone to compensate. This would explain him obsessive interest in sex. He licks all other dogs' genitals. He mounts them all with an erection. Obviously I am there to intervene or the dogs snap at him eventually.

Can this really continue all his life? Does this calm down? How can I keep him from running after a itch when the imperative is so strong in him? If he is like this at 8 months what will be be like when he is older? Should I not neuter him after 12 months? I know there are negatives, but isn't neutering preferable to a dead dog?

DB

Im only picking up on a couple of things.  If he is getting too excited with other dogs remove him before he starts humping, the more he practices a behaviour the more it becomes ingrained and harder to rectify.
Also i dont like the sound of your trainer. A good positive reward based one wouldn't suggest using a pet corrector.
Please find a different trainer for 121 work and also classes maybe find a kennel club good citizen as they should be force free.

Your boy should be training and believing that you are way more fun and important than other dogs. Sure socialise but i would remove the play part and make walks not so exciting for him in terms of other dogs.  Lead walks and training combined around the streets, if he is getting over excited or stressed other not so good behaviours will show themselves as you are seeing.

> Can this really continue all his life? Does this calm down?

Sex hormones are at their highest during puberty until sexual maturity is complete.  the testosterone levels can be 5 times that of a MATURE ADULT DOG.  iT'S THE SAME STORY IN HUMAN MALES.

So not being able to practice the sex pest behaviour and maturity will help reduce the behaviour.

Just realised he going through his first stage of puberty not 2nd which occurs after he's 12 months.

No trainer should be instructing owners to stop a dog growling, growling is not aggression, but the dog indicating it is not happy & if you stop this then the next stage is a snap/nip without warning.

You could try the superlorin implant after he is mature & if it stops the bitching then castration whilst the implant is still working would be a solution. If you want him to have free running then a dedicated secure dog field would be a way of allowing this in safety

Your recall training sounds good, although personally I reward every recall with food while training it, rather than randomly.  Random is for later, when it's reliable and I'm refining it.

The trainer does not sound good.  If she has identified fear in this dog, then what the hell is she doing recommending a pet corrector spray?  That is very bad practice.  Pet correctors have no place in training in general but absolutely not, ever, with a fearful and/or aggressive dog.

He's also not trying to be top dog - he's a dog, you aren't.  Therefore, he cannot dominate you and vice versa.  He's being a dog - doing what gets him a reward, whether that's a comfy spot, a treat from you, or whatever.  I have a pack of 7 big dogs, and they all sleep on the sofa, and a couple in my bed.  They go through doorways first, they eat first, etc etc.  But they do as I ask, because I have trained them to and because they have a strong reinforcement history for doing so.  It's about motivation and understanding, not rank.

> So when he start to growl about various things I tried to work out what was causing the growl, and just ignored the growling and rewarded positive behaviour. Then I got bitten. So I called in the dog trainer.  She said we couldn't allow him to growl about things he didn't like. This included me trying to take things out of his mouth like dog/cat/fox poo, bathing him, moving him off sofas. So it's not all about sensitivity, as you can see.

That sounds exactly like it's about sensitivity.  A dog growling is communicating, not being aggressive, and it should be listened to.  You did right to try and identify the cause but you should not have ignored it - you need to listen to it.  Ignored growling will go the same way as punished growling: it stops, and the dog skips to the bite, because they aren't being listened to.

So, when you know the cause, work on that.  Handling work as I described above.  Swapsies for treats and teaching a good leave/drop for when he's got hold of something he shouldn't, and not making a big deal out of it (because that makes it a more valuable thing for them to do).  Bathing is a little trickier but again, growling then suggests he's sore somewhere or as has been said, worried due to past experience.  Go gently, if he grumbles then do another area for a minute then go back.  For moving off sofas, teach an 'off' cue by luring him off with something tasty and saying the word as he goes.  Encourage him back on, then do it again.  Repeat until he's coming off on cue happily.  Again, he could be sore so growling when you're trying to move him from a comfortable spot, or it could be to do with his handling issues.  Either way, training for that must be fun, gentle and absolutely hands-off.

I absolutely agree - it would be a much better idea to fix the cause of the growling rather than suppressing it. Growling is important communication. I'd much rather deal with a growling dog than one that goes straight to biting because it's been punished for growling.

Have you tried desensitising him to touch? Every time you touch him he gets a delicious treat. I'd start with places where he doesn't mind being touched until he's made the association that touching = treat, and then gradually move on to very brief touching in the areas he doesn't like. My rabbits both panic if you try to pick them up (understandable since they are prey animals, but handling is necessary at the vets and such) so I'm working on making the experience less stressful for them in exactly this way. Now they'll tolerate a tiny lift a few inches off the ground. I don't imagine they'll ever actually like that sort of handling, but eventually they will be able to cope with being picked up properly without panicking at all.

It's not about stopping the growling or snapping. It's about changing the way he feels about things so he doesn't feel like he NEEDS to growl or snap.

[Edit] Just realised Nikita said pretty much the same thing, but better. Excuse me, I'm extremely tired!

>The bitch had actually been spayed and is having some kind of season after that. I know nothing else but I don't understand how a spayed bitch has a season.

This can happen if the bitch was spayed when her ovaries were friable (too close to a season, perhaps) and some cells were left behind. These will continue to function and release hormones just as if there were complete ovaries still there. So she'll continue to come into season just the same, and be attractive (and receptive) to male dogs just as if she'd never been spayed. The only difference is that, without a uterus, she cannot become pregnant following mating.

As you've found out, the bitch is attracting males and should be kept away from the park, and all other places where dogs go, for a few weeks till she's back to normal again, before her owner's irresponsible behaviour results in a dog getting run over, following her scent.

> I'd much rather deal with a growling dog than one that goes straight to biting because it's been punished for growling.

Yes indeedy!  I have been on the other end of it a couple of times and it is not remotely fun.  One of them should actually have been PTS by now, although whether the owner ever went through with it I don't know.  But he ended up dangerously unpredictable through having his warnings ignored and punished (both in different situations).

I once met a chocolate Lab coming out of a a pet shop (you know, the large chain that often has a vet surgery inside). She pulled towards me for a fuss and I gave her a bit of a chest rub while I chatted to the owner, who told me the dog had just been to the vet with a sore ear. The dog was enthusiastically responding to me and I moved upwards to scratch her neck without thinking - she gave me a tiny polite growl to tell me she was uncomfortable and didn’t want me near that sore ear (and rightly so).

My response? I moved my hand away.

Owner’s response? Clout the poor dog around the head. :(

I still regret that I was so shocked that I just had to leave, and couldn’t explain to the owner why that was a terrible thing to do to a dog that was just communicating in a perfectly natural and appropriate way that she wasn’t comfortable with a stranger near her ear when it was painful - presumably right after another stranger (vet) had examined it and hurt her.

Can't remember who it was but someone on here had the signature

Why bite when a growl will do

Was that Lindsay had a BSD?

Can't remember who it was as it was at least several years ago but it stuck in my mind as it is SO true.

Yes, Lindsay had a tervuren.

> Can't remember who it was but someone on here had the signature <br /><br />Why bite when a growl will do

Brilliant! :)

Thank you all for your replies

We went to the vet for more flea/tick and worming medicines last week, and I saw the senior vet, who is very experienced, and I do really trust his opinion. Long story short he examined my pup, including spine and all joints. There is nothing wrong with any part of him. There is no cause for pain. He is clearly growling because he doesn't like being touched in certain places at certain times. I suspect his groomer may have been a contributory factor.

He is a clever and bossy little chap (dog - not to my knowledge the vet) and is training me, and has done a much better job of it than I have done with him.

We have come across two other bitches on the park in season. Owners seem to have no idea whatsoever. So I keep him on the lead there, off lead in safe places or on long training lead, and am working on recall.

So I am just going to continue to recall training (and his is very good, but obviously not reliable should he meet a bitch in season), be vigilant, and continue bathing and drying him, gently, calmly, but not back off. And reward with treats afterwards. I will let you know how this goes.

Careful with the not backing  off if he grumbles. Better to back off and go forward as he lets u and treat each time .baby steps . If u push on when he grumbles it can give the message he needs to do more to stop this happening and doesn't build his confidence in being touched. When u say he doesn't have pain but is clearly growing and doesn't like being touched in certain areas what did the vet actually mean ? Sorry I may be being thick. It may still be wpry a visit to a mctimony practiiner as they  an often find thing's even very experienced vets can't as it's their specialist area

I meant that it is clear he is trying it on, being 8 1/2 months old, clever, adolescent and a big personality.

I have just bathed him and he growled less than usual, and I just talked quietly and carried on drying. He was fine. It's reduced to a kind of resigned grumble. For example I can touch him everywhere, all over his body including legs and even testicle all over at other times ((on his terms when he wants attention or affection) and we only get the growling just when I use the towel or the brush. I have carried out various experiments at various times of day, using different touch in all places and this is the conclusion: there is no cause for complaint other than he does not like to be bathed and groomed.

We have also had to put ear cleaning drops in and he growled then. But once he knew it was happening he just let us do it. Big sausage reward after.
Last week he got a grass seed between his toes and was in real pain, wouldn't even put weight on his foot.  He didn't growl, he didn't even whimper even when we had to remove it from deep within his toes.

Vet spent a very long time looking at all joints, skin, pads of feet, toes, ears, everything. He knows all about the mcT practitioners. He would refer if he believed there was cause. He in 'enlightened' and doesn't dismiss anything. He made a thorough and careful examination and found nothing.  

this dog costs me a small fortune and if I thought there was the slightest reason to take him elsewhere I would really take him. Hence the second vet's opinion. The issue is with the owner and not the physiology of the dog. I will keep an open mind and if it appears at any stage to be physiological as opposed to behavioural I will take him elsewhere.

However just because he isn't in pain does not mean I can take the growl lightly. I appreciate what you are saying. He has snapped once before. So I am not cavalier. So I have been going slowly, at his pace as suggested.

Unfortunately he needs to be groomed and bathed, and have his ears cleaned and have drops in ears. So I cannot stop doing those things, but have to find a way of doing it to cause least upset/fear/distress/discomfort/tickling or whatever it is he feels. Because he has a life time of this.

Thank you for your thoughts and kind advice, furriefriends.

Sounds like u or should I say he :) are doing quite well which is great . I totally get the ear drops in particular  unfortunately I have one with allergies and we have to use  immunotherapy  Injections and ear drops regularly. She is very good but hates the ear drops so lots of treats

My dog doesn’t like her tail being brushed/trimmed/handled very much. She doesn’t growl just snatches her tail away and gives you a look. Ive found if I tell her what I’m going to do she seems more relaxed. I know that does sound really daft, but she does know what the word tail means - we have a game where I ask her to fetch her tail and bring it to me and she seems to enjoy the gales of laughter from me.

> Because he has a life time of this.

You could keep him clipped off so he doesn't have to go through the brushing, at least.  Or if not forever, just for a little while so you can work through this issue without the risk of knots forming that could hurt when you catch them.

That said, furriefriends is spot on.  Back off if he's uncomfortable, then try again.  Try backing off and trying a different spot before going back to where he grumbled.  Reward well anything that is tolerated.  This works for dogs that are just intolerant as well as ones who are uncomfortable.  And as they learn that you will listen, they grumble less and tolerate more.  Ignoring his grumbles is risky because he's already snapped at you and your son.  So his warnings have already increase, therefore it is imperative that growls are heeded to prevent him going further.

Good tip from Jodi too, I do that with some dogs.  Especially with feet as that's a common trigger point - I've been doing it with a new spaniel who on the first visit, would have bitten me had I even attempted to trim his front feet but second visit, let me do them.  Carefully, but he let me.  Always talking to him to let him know what I'm about to do or touch.

Also, as I said earlier, vets often miss stuff.  Even a full exam as you described does not rule out pain.  I've learned from experience that the chiro is by far the best way to do that.

>I meant that it is clear he is trying it on, being 8 1/2 months old, clever, adolescent and a big personality.

Dogs don't 'try it on'.  They feel uncomfortable or scared, and they try to communicate that by growling.  If you continue to ignore the growling, he may well escalate it to snapping at you or being truly aggressive.  I think you might find it a little hard to 'ignore' that and continue grooming him.  Much better to sort this now through training than to push him to have to use aggression...