I am incredibly sorry for how long this is, but I have 500 questions and google keeps bringing me to this site. My dog is supposedly a pit-lab mix. Idk if that matters.

So, I got my dog from a relatives friend a few months back. I was told she was spayed and that they just didn't trust a dog that was part pit around their kids. They were going to take her to the shelter, so I came and got her.

Anyway, about a week after I got her, I found out that she was definitely not spayed. She went into heat and I ended up with a pregnant dog. Well, she had her babies tonight. Nine of them!
I've never had a dog have puppies before, so this is all new to me. I got her a whelping box and put it in my basement. She got used to being down there and I even slept on the couch downstairs by her for a couple nights.

Today, I came home from work, and she wouldn't leave her kennel (which is upstairs) to eat, drink, or pee. Every now and then, she'd come over and put her head in my lap. So, I just knew she was having her puppies soon.

I tried to do as much research as I could over the past few weeks, but clearly I didn't do enough. She refused to go downstairs to have the babies. She tried to have them on the couch. I went outside at 2am and "borrowed" my neighbor's kiddie pool. It is currently in my living room which is connected to my kitchen and right next to the front door. Is it okay to move her and her puppies downstairs? Even if I bring the pool down there, she'd have a lot more privacy. I've got two kids aged 4 and 13, so they're always running around upstairs. 

Second question, she doesn't have enough nipples for all of her puppies to nurse at the same time. She has eight, but the way she lays, the puppies can only seem to get to 5-6. Is there a way to get her to lay over on her side? She even has randomly curled up in a ball so that none of the puppies get to her. When do you know that it's time to supplement formula?

This is just all so much more than I expected and I know she's trying, but she's tired and stressed. Any advice would be wonderful!

> Is it okay to move her and her puppies downstairs? Even if I bring the pool down there, she'd have a lot more privacy. I've got two kids aged 4 and 13, so they're always running around upstairs.

If she is happier being on the ground floor with you, I would leave her there until the pups start to get mobile at around 3 weeks-ish.  There's no reason for her to be any specific place, she will probably have quicker access to outdoors to toilet from your ground floor, and she probably feels safer in the centre of the family.  When the pups get a bit older, she will be less dedicated (slightly) and will probably be happier with you moving them then.  Kids running around are actually quite good as an environment for pups to grow up with, though - it's good socialisation, although they will be too young at the moment to even be aware.

>Second question, she doesn't have enough nipples for all of her puppies to nurse at the same time. She has eight, but the way she lays, the puppies can only seem to get to 5-6. Is there a way to get her to lay over on her side? She even has randomly curled up in a ball so that none of the puppies get to her. When do you know that it's time to supplement formula?

It is very normal for there to be fewer nipples than puppies.  Puppies will take turns to nurse and they learn and develop a lot from knocking each other off nipples, developing strength to push their way to the milkbar and so on.  There's no problem about her not having enough nipples.  Stop worrying about that. 

You do NOT NEED to supplement with formula.  NO FORMULA is as good as mother's milk.  Circumstances would need to be very severe and pups would need to be losing weight before you would even consider supplementing.  Have you weighed and identified every puppy?  You should have.  You should then weigh them twice a day for at least the first week, to ensure they are gaining weight.  If they lose weight in the first 24 hours, that is FINE and NORMAL.  If they continue to lose weight after that, it's not. 

Are you giving mum calcium?  Please do.  You will likely have to 'make' her come outside to toilet as she won't want to leave them.  Give her Tums or ice-cream - calcium will help prevent eclampsia after whelping.  I don't like hearing that she is curled up in a ball, that's the only thing out of everything you say which might make me worried.  It suggests she could be in pain, or perhaps needing calcium....

The very best thing you can do, is stay in the background and support mum to do her job - not take over everything.  Ensure she is physically well, and her little family too, but don't start doing things for her which she can and should be doing.

Rather than going straight to using calcium, I'd take her, and her puppies to your vet (make sure the puppies have a good feed before you leave and have them on a warm pad in a box next to her).   Post whelping, unless the breeder is experienced, every bitch should be taken to a vet to be checked to be sure she's empty, given a clean out shot and the puppies checked for abnormalities you may have missed.  If she has retained birthing material (did you count the placenta?) or even a puppy that didn't make it, she will quickly become very ill.

As for where she should be - normally a breeder would move a pregnant bitch to her whelping quarters, to sleep, at some point towards the end of the pregnancy so she's familiar with the surroundings and can settle to her job in peace.   Some pet bitches do find it difficult to transition to being a mum, from being a pet.   I'd not want young children running around in the middle of all this - from a settling point of view, to say nothing of them walking infection in.  That's a risk I'd not take but if she's distressed being away from the family, perhaps you can set up a box in the utility area, using a baby-gate?

I hope she's been on a good quality food throughout her pregnancy (leaving aside why you allowed this to happen - and didn't take her straight to your vet for a gravid spay once you knew what had happened) and that she was wormed and her boosters brought up to date before being mated (probably not possible given what happened here!).   These puppies should have had mum's first milk to hopefully give them the natural immunity against the various dog diseases through the first weeks of their life.

As for teats - with our bigger litters, we'd roll mum so the underneath teats were available, latch puppies onto them and then gently rolling her back a bit, attach the others to the 'upper teats'.  This made sure everybody was having a good crack at the milk bar.   And any smaller puppies we'd attach to the middle smaller teats, ahead of the big bruisers pushing in. 

I hope you can find an experienced mentor to help you through all this.

ps   A content litter is a quiet litter.   If they are noisy (other than the noise they make when trying to draw off more milk!), then something isn't quite right.

Just to add I am hoping she is mature enough for this but given what has happened please get her spayed as soon as possible

I would not recommend taking your dog to the vet unless she seems unwell.  A 'clean out' shot is not recommended as routine in best practice any longer, and is only used when really indicated. 

Vets are where all sick dogs are taken and disease risk - especially in locations in the US where there is more parvo prevalent than in most parts of the UK - means save the vet for situations where she seems unwell.  Even in those circumstances, if you can get a vet to make a house call, that would probably be best.

I would not worry about people moving through the house and disease risk - pups need stimulation and exposure to new things in order to grow up well-adjusted to it.  But if you are concerned, you can just ask the kids to take their shoes off when they come inside.

The majority of dogs feel safest where you are and where they know you spend most time, especially if they are quite attached to you.  Shipping them off to some room on the edge of the house or the basement, can be quite distressing for these dogs.  I'd follow your bitch's lead on what she needs and what helps her feel safe.

"She even has randomly curled up in a ball so that none of the puppies get to her. "

THIS, coupled with why she's not very settled, is why I suggested she should be seen by a vet!!!  But what do I know............. 

See, I'm wondering if I could move her to the garage. I know you said not to move the babies if there's no reason to, but she won't let my other dog come inside. I was going to bring him in and put him in the basement, but before I got the door open, she had ran over to the door and started growling like she was going to fight him. I know she's just protecting her babies, but I've gotta get him inside at some point.

And, at first I was scared that they all couldn't get to the nipples, but she has started rotating them. I have not weighed them yet. I dont know how I was naive enough to think that a regular scale would register their weight, but I've got to get a kitchen scale. I'm just waiting on my husband to wake up and take over keeping an eye on her. Plus, I'm not going to lie, I'm a little scared to take them from her. She got really anxious when I was changing the bedding out of the pool. I had to move her babies to one side in order to wipe it down. She didn't seem to like that at all.

I will, definitely, give her calcium. I'm not sure what eclampsia is. I've heard of preeclampsia in humans, and I know that's really bad. Is there a certain amount she should have? I do have this milk replacement formula stuff that I'd been mixing into her food when I found out she was pregnant. It says that it's for pregnant or lactating dogs. Would that be a calcium source? She isn't curled up in a ball anymore, so I'm not sure.

I do need to call the vet this morning because someone told me that she needs a shot to make sure all of the puppy stuff comes out. I'm just exhausted, so I can't even imagine how she feels.

Thank you soooo much by the way.

I'm about to call the vet. She seems fine now with the nursing and all that. I think I overreacted a little bit while she was giving birth because my husband went to sleep and left me alone. But, I don't know how the whole vet process works after she has the babies. Do I bring her and her puppies?

I think it’s more important for mum and pups to be in the house with you all rather than shipped out to the garage, which is a pretty unstimulating environment for pups. Is there no one who could look after your boy for a bit?

> But, I don't know how the whole vet process works after she has the babies. Do I bring her and her puppies?

As said before -   "Rather than going straight to using calcium, I'd take her, and her puppies to your vet (make sure the puppies have a good feed before you leave and have them on a warm pad in a box next to her).   Post whelping, unless the breeder is experienced, every bitch should be taken to a vet to be checked to be sure she's empty, given a clean out shot and the puppies checked for abnormalities you may have missed.  If she has retained birthing material (did you count the placenta?) or even a puppy that didn't make it, she will quickly become very ill."

Whether or not you take her to your vet is up to you of course but again, for a novice breeder, this is still 'best practice'.   Yes, there could be a risk of infection at the vet's office, but if you take something to put on the examination table (re him checking the puppies) and make sure you wipe the feet of mum with diluted disinfectant, and she is up to date with her boosters (?) the risk of picking up infection should be very small.  After all if a b itch needs a C.Section, she's going to be at the vet's office!

Be guided by your vet.

Reading your latest re another dog - you MUST have her completely away from him - very occasionally a bitch may turn on her puppies if she's protecting them, in a misguided attempt to protect them.   I'm not sure about having her in the garage however - better to have him there, than her and her puppies - if for warmth alone.   Newborn puppies cannot regulate their own heat so must be kept warm, externally.

ps   Just to say we have never needed to give extra calcium to our nursing mums.

>See, I'm wondering if I could move her to the garage. I know you said not to move the babies if there's no reason to, but she won't let my other dog come inside. I was going to bring him in and put him in the basement, but before I got the door open, she had ran over to the door and started growling like she was going to fight him. I know she's just protecting her babies, but I've gotta get him inside at some point.

Right, well that changes things a bit - because however you set things up, they have to be ok like that for about 3 weeks until the pups get more mobile and move to the weaning pen/out of the whelping box.  If she won't let your other dog inside and there's no other door into the house the other dog can use or other way he can avoid the area, then you may have to move them.  Be warned this isn't going to be easy, it may well stress her out a lot, she may be aggressive towards whoever it moving the puppies and even once you've moved her, she may not be able to settle there, she may start picking them up and trying to bring them back upstairs or where she wants them and she may not mother them well down there.  So I really would not move her unless it's a last resort.  Is there another family member or friend who could have your other dog for a few weeks to get around this?  She will probably relax a lot once the pups are a few weeks old.

For calcium, you need to give 91mg per pound during whelping (after  first puppy appears) and then every 30 minutes until everything seems normal and then can continue to give that amount 3-4 times a day throughout lactation.  You can use calcium citrate or carbonate or phosphate, it doesn't matter.  But it's elemental calcium you are interested in, which is sometimes a different amount than calcium... What does your bitch weigh?  I highly recommend using Doc Roy's Healthy Bones which you can order on Amazon, but you won't get those for a few days.  Go to a pharmacy and buy some calcium supplements for humans.  Be sure they are just calcium and not calcium with vitamin D added.  Bitches can have a phenomenal amount of calcium so don't worry about giving too much.  People usually give too little.  If you need help with dosage, tell us;  What type of calcium you have, what brand of calcium tablets too (so can look up online more info) and what your bitch weighs.

You do NOT need to go to the vet for a clear out shot.  This will be oxytocin and it will get her all stirred up again, digging her bedding, unsettled, and with cramps.  I would only do that if I had been carefully counting placentas and I knew there was still many left inside, which weren't coming out when she peed either or later... Even the vast majority of bitches with retained placentas are absolutely fine and their body processes them without problem, but occasionally one will cause an infection.  Personally, I don't think that occasional time warrants routinely giving all bitches oxytocin as a clear-out... plus all that's involved in a trip to the vet (stress, separation from pups, disease risk) and the discomfort and cramps starting up again after the jab.  But it's up to you. 

I would just caution you against taking random people's advice without checking with many other people first and also doing some GOOD googling of REPUTABLE sources.  In this whole process you will probably get a lot of conflicting advice, and you need to listen to it all and choose your own way through it - but don't just do the first thing that any one person tells you to...

> I do have this milk replacement formula stuff that I'd been mixing into her food when I found out she was pregnant. It says that it's for pregnant or lactating dogs. Would that be a calcium source?

That was a bad idea.  You should not give calcium during pregnancy, from any source.  You should give it a lot after the first puppy has been whelped.  Giving calcium before in pregnancy (especially in late pregnancy) in any quantity increases the risk of eclampsia after whelping - which can be life threatening.  Google eclampsia. 

I'm not sure why you are only on this site at the point that your bitch has actually whelped puppies?  You presumably had several weeks to learn about best practice and - well - all of this.  It just seems a bit strange to leave it until you actually have puppies arrive.

> For calcium, you need to give 91mg per pound during whelping (after  first puppy appears) and then every 30 minutes until everything seems normal and then can continue to give that amount 3-4 times a day throughout lactation.  You can use calcium citrate or carbonate or phosphate, it doesn't matter.  But it's elemental calcium you are interested in, which is sometimes a different amount than calcium... What does your bitch weigh?  I highly recommend using Doc Roy's Healthy Bones which you can order on Amazon, but you won't get those for a few days.  Go to a pharmacy and buy some calcium supplements for humans.  Be sure they are just calcium and not calcium with vitamin D added.  Bitches can have a phenomenal amount of calcium so don't worry about giving too much.  People usually give too little.  If you need help with dosage, tell us;  What type of calcium you have, what brand of calcium tablets too (so can look up online more info) and what your bitch weighs.<br />

I am really concerned about all this calcium giving advice (during whelping - really??)  and wonder whether maybe it comes from somebody with a specific breed with bitches that need this because in all honesty, again, we have NEVER had to do anything like this with a whelping bitch, let alone during nursing.   Bearing in mind my main breed is one that needs big bone and substance, much as experienced breeders know you breed for bone first.  Was a time when we used to give Stress to puppies/youngsters but with today's food, this has gone out of favour.   

Again, we have never had any problem re eclampsia never mind a bitch who needed calcium whether with a small number of puppies, or a large number.   This advice interests me, but also bothers me, not for myself as I'm through breeding now, but for others who may read this......

Again with the post whelping examination - and if a vet says she is empty, he won't give oxytocin!  But isn't it better to be safe rather than sorry.  At least if your vet sees your bitch and examines each puppy, and says all is well, you should be good to go.

'Random people' is part of coming onto a website like this for advice, but never forget, there are some who do have a load of experience to share, even if they are not vets but dare I say it, vets have all the theory, or should, but sometimes not the experience.  However, any form of Internet Searching can so often do more harm than good.  There is nobody better to advise anybody than a reputable trusted qualified vet, who knows the animals in question.

I have no comment. to add to mamabas comments  apart from that she is an experienced breeder. That product does contain vit d and phosphorus unless there is another I just googled it.

onetwothreefour  very good and sound advice!

>Again with the post whelping examination - and if a vet says she is empty, he won't give oxytocin!

A vet can't tell that, they are not psychic!  Even if they did an ultrasound, they are not going to see any placentas left, there is so much discharge and stuff left in there after a normal whelping... They also don't want to get their asses sued if they don't give the shot and the bitch is the one that develops an infection.  So they are just going to give the shot whatever, if you take the bitch there and ask for it. 

As for calcium and eclampsia, I'm really very surprised you haven't heard of that.  Even a brief google will bring up pages of information on eclampsia in dogs and how calcium can both cause it (if given during pregnancy) and prevent it (if given afterwards).  Research shows that calcium also causes stronger contractions during labour, although it should only be given once at least one puppy has been whelped.  Then it should be given in between every puppy, for that very reason.

^   I'd have to agree that most vets would probably give a post-whelped bitch a shot rather than mess around .... risking the health of the bitch, and the possibility of being sued if by chance, the bitch does develop an infection.   Again this is when the breeder is inexperienced tho.

If you are suggesting that I don't know about 'calcium and eclampsia' - not so.   I've just never had this problem with my bitches.  As far as I'm conc erned, putting puppies onto teats stimilated contractions well enough without the need to give my bitches calcium     Just one question, what about a bitch who maybe has a big puppy, perhaps breach at that, meaning any amount of contracting, pushing hard, would still probably need a C.Section!

I really don't come here to argue.   I can only use my own experience, with my own breed, to answer a question.

If you are a little wary of her then drop a slip lead over her head and tempt her away from the puppies with some tasty titbits, then you can get her away from the puppies while you clean and check them without having to put your hands on her. She will normally calm down within a few days and you will be able to handle the puppies safely, keep an eye on her body language, stiff body/raised tail/ "hard eyes"/ lip licking/growling are all signs that she is unhappy with you so take care especially with the children. It is very natural for her to keep other dogs away and even if she doesn't follow through her warnings it may upset her and she could try to move the puppies. There is lots of advice on rearing the babies so you should be fine, obviously be careful where you home them and get her spayed before her next season, generally about 4/5 months post whelping, good luck.

> I'd have to agree that most vets would probably give a post-whelped bitch a shot rather than mess around .

We all know (well, most of us do) that vets tend to the invasive side of things.  We have often said most vets know nothing about normal vaginal births, they only know about c-sections.  And let's not get into all the preventatives and other stuff they sell owners.  When this invasive approach is combined with whelping and pups, it is not always in the pups and mum's best interests, IMO.

>If you are suggesting that I don't know about 'calcium and eclampsia' - not so.   I've just never had this problem with my bitches.

But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem - and when it is, it is life-threatening because eclampsia symptoms come on so suddenly and if the bitch doesn't get to the vet in time for intravenous calcium, they will die.  Supplementing with calcium does no harm and can prevent that scenario, so it's worth doing just to be sure of this.  Furthermore, there are many behaviours it is reckoned are due to a milder form of inadequate calcium - such as poor mothering behaviour, growling at puppies, moving puppies, being restless or unable to settle and allow nursing, panting, excessive digging in the whelping box - all of these behaviours can be prevented via calcium.  (Giving calcium will see them subside within about 30 minutes.)  Many people experience these behaviours and have no idea they could be fixed by supplementing with calcium or just think they are part of raising a litter and inevitable - they are not!

Yes, for sure getting pups to nurse also improves contractions as well.  Calcium adds to that effect.  Of course if there is a physical problem then no amount of stronger contractions is going to whelp a pup, but more effort happening earlier in a whelping can help avoid long drawn out whelpings where the bitch tires and gets increasingly less able to push hard - until eventually she does need a c-section.  That's one which could have been avoided via harder contractions, earlier. 

Anyway, I'm not sure this is helping the OP at this point - seeing they have their pups on the ground now.  I am wondering how things are going on for them.  It does worry me when people do this with so little preparation.

> get her spayed before her next season, generally about 4/5 months post whelping, good luck.

I spay my girls when their pups are 1 - 12 weeks old so they are not too close to their next season.

>I spay my girls when their pups are 1 - 12 weeks old so they are not too close to their next season.

Do you mean 11-12 weeks old?

oops, yes 11 - 12 weeks

Same here.  My bitches are spayed when pups are 12 weeks old.

I always let mine have one season post the one that produced a litter, and then had them spayed, midway between that season and the next.

How are things going?

> I always let mine have one season post the one that produced a litter

I don't do this as spaying often ahs the same negative effect on coat as having a litter *(a major moult) so you loose another show season.

In my breed which is slow maturing often they are at their best after motherhood, but fitting a show career around maternal duties is difficult, they are rarely fit to be shown until their pups are 5  6 months old, and then they come in season again. So from the season you mate them to the one after you have probably lost a year..

I think bitches should remain intact as long as possible - with the only concern being pyometra risk.  Even then:  There is research showing that the risk of dementia/senility in senior dogs is much less in dogs which are intact, than in neutered dogs...

So I only consider spaying when they are 8yo+ (regardless of when they finish breeding) and then always with a laparoscopic spay.  I'm actually contemplating not spaying at all anymore and taking my chances with pyo into old age.  I have a few years to make that call at the moment, for my current breeding bitch.

You can always have an ovary sparing spay so protective hormones are kept but uterus is removed protecting from pyo.

> You can always have an ovary sparing spay

Though of course you will still have the nuisance aspect of her being in season, as regards pheromones produced, but not the physical signs of bleeding to tell you, similar to silent heat.

This can cause issues in mix sex households, off lead exercise, and of course with daycare boarding etc.

Normally I ended the show career (hopefully with some good wins if not a Championship) and then would take a litter.  So proving, if I didn't already know, that my bitch was of sufficient quality to be bred from!   All done before around 5.  If relevant, I'd take them back in Veterans, at Club shows.  I preferred to leave one season between a litter and spay, to allow them to settle down again after their efforts in the whelping box.  I didn't always take more than one litter either.

Risking a pyo, relevant in my low to ground breed, wasn't my main reason for spaying - having to confine twice a year was.   And yes, in a mix-sex 'pack'.

>You can always have an ovary sparing spay so protective hormones are kept but uterus is removed protecting from pyo.

I don't think there are many places in the UK offering this procedure - do you know of any?  There are lots doing lap spays where the ovaries are removed and uterus is left...

I wouldn't mind the inconvenience of 'silent' heats, as long as the risk of pyo was gone.

Yes, it's limited but there's a Fbk group that can help :
Ovary sparing spay and vasectomy